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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2024 18:05:41 GMT -5
"More than likely" isn't proof though, as you are well aware. We'll likely never know whether Stan had a hand in originating the concept of Vibranium or not, but I thought it was pretty well accepted that the Negative Zone was all Kirby's idea? Wikipedia says the NZ was "Created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby". With top billing for Lee. Amazingly, Marvels own website does credit Kirby. So there is hope. More than likely because Stan did not give Kirby detailed synopses with details like special metals. I'm sure I've read that the Negative Zone was Kirby's thing and that he originated it precisely so that he could incorporate collage and interstellar photographs into the artwork, which he sort of did. Can't remember where I read this though. |
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2024 18:01:28 GMT -5
Last couple of nights I've been listening to Neil Young's Harvest album from 1972.  It's obviously one of Young's most well known and best loved albums and I've certainly always liked it, but there are other late '60s/early '70s albums of Young's that I rate higher, such as Everybody Knows This is Nowhere, After the Gold Rush and On the Beach. However, I must say that I'm really enjoying listening to Harvest again for the first time in quite a while. While I'm listening, I'm reminded of a guy called Paul who was a few years older than me and was a friend of a friend that I met in the early '90s. I first heard this album round his flat in '91 and it was how good sounded, combined with his waxing lyrical about it that convinced me to purchase a copy (it was my first Neil Young album). Paul began a battle against cancer roughly a decade later that he unfortunately succumbed to in the late 2000s. Harvest always makes me think of him...which I am tonight, as I listen. Thanks for recommending this great album to me, Paul. |
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2024 12:04:46 GMT -5
There was no radioactive waste giving Matt Murdock super-senses in what Bill Everett turned in. That's certainly an interesting possibility. I have always thought that the artwork did a really poor job of what Stan's dialogue was telling us had happened, so you might well be right. Later, the depiction of Matt navigating an office using "pings" seems to my eyes to be showing him using an electronic device in the cane, not innate enhanced senses. This, however, I just don't see at all. Don't forget, that when Everett and Lee where developing the character, prior to working on issue #1, it was Everett who came up with the idea of Daredevil being blind, inspired by his own daughter who was visually impaired. It was Stan, however, who came up with the idea of Daredevil having a radar-sense (I've read that he was worried that the concept of heightened abilities might offend some blind people). Given that the concept of this new Daredevil being blind and having a radar-sense were in place before work started on that first issue, I find it improbable that Everett was drawing Matt Murdock getting about via an electronic gizmo in his cane. Besides, as I say, I just don't see that in the artwork you posted. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2024 11:50:39 GMT -5
That was me, editing the page this morning, let's see if it sticks this time. Lol... my point is, that knowing how they worked, it is more than likely that concepts like Vibranium and the Negative Zone were Kirby's. Stan has no history of such ideas. "More than likely" isn't proof though, as you are well aware. We'll likely never know whether Stan had a hand in originating the concept of Vibranium or not, but I thought it was pretty well accepted that the Negative Zone was all Kirby's idea? |
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2024 8:43:53 GMT -5
Interesting. I'd not heard of Koschei, but a quick Google search informs me that he is the central character in a Russian fairy story. You might well be right that Death finding Hettie's missing heart hidden inside a set of Russian dolls is a reference to this story. I'd bet heavily that Gaiman was familiar with the The Death of Koschei the Deathless fairy tale. He is; I believe it's even mentioned in one of the Sandman comics (the one about the young Russian werewolf). I'd have to check the exact issue. Ah, right! I'm not sure of the original issue number, but that Russian werewolf story appears in the volume 6 TPB, Fables & Reflections. It also features a cameo by the witch Baba Yaga from Russian folklore, complete with her flying mortar and pestle!  |
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2024 8:35:15 GMT -5
Do you have a reliable, third-party source for that? If so, then the editors of Wikipedia should alllow it to stand, as long as you add an inline citation to a reliable source supporting this claim. If you don't have a reliable source, then it's not accurate enough for Wikipedia. The threshold for inclusion on Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. EDIT: I'm a long-time editor on Wikipedia, mostly on music articles. I’m pretty sure the layouts are credited to Kirby in the comic book itself. Ah, OK...to be fair, kirby101 did actually say that in his post, I just didn't spot it. I wonder if splash page credits surfice as reliable sources with Wikipedians involved in the Comics WikiProject? After all, I know that Cei-U! has said repeatedly that you shouldn't put an awful lot of stock in them, in terms of accuracy. EDIT: kirby101 -- Seems that the Wikipedia page for Vibranium now does mention Kirby as having done layouts on DD #13. Here's what it currently says... Vibranium first appeared in Daredevil #13 (February 1966), which was written by Stan Lee and layouts by Jack Kirby with finished art by John Romita. |
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2024 7:46:31 GMT -5
In the end, Didi/Death locates Hettie's heart hidden inside a set of Russian dolls (it appears to be nothing more than a simple gold locket, though it may well have magical properties). It's doubtless a reference to Koshei the deathless, who hid his death (sometimes his heart) somewhere so he could go on living; like Koshei, Hettie says that her heart could be hid inside an egg that's inside a duck that's on an island etc, etc... and at the same time, this being a Gaiman work, I'm sure that the object itself (the heart-shaped locket) is just a heart-shaped locket. Heck, in a century, Hettie might be looking for a totally different object that she will consider her heart. As Didi says in the series, symbols have power, but not the way the Eremite (or we) may think. Interesting. I'd not heard of Koschei, but a quick Google search informs me that he is the central character in a Russian fairy story. You might well be right that Death finding Hettie's missing heart hidden inside a set of Russian dolls is a reference to this story. I'd bet heavily that Gaiman was familiar with the The Death of Koschei the Deathless fairy tale. |
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2024 7:28:16 GMT -5
On the Wikipedia page for Vibranium it says it was introduced in Daredevil #13 written by Stan Lee and art by John Romita. But that is not true, Romita needed help with plotting and that books has layouts by Kirby, meaning he plotted it and introduced Vibranium to the MU. It did not appear again until FF #53, when Kirby as plotter brought it back. Now I tried to edit Wikipedia several times. Not to say Kirby created Vibranium, which he did, but only to have his layout creditvfor DD #13, which is on the splash page, added.
Every time I did this, wiki reverts it back to just Lee and Romita.Do you have a reliable, third-party source for that? If so, then the editors of Wikipedia should alllow it to stand, as long as you add an inline citation to a reliable source supporting this claim. If you don't have a reliable source, then it's not accurate enough for Wikipedia. The threshold for inclusion on Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. EDIT: I'm a long-time editor on Wikipedia, mostly on music articles. |
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2024 6:34:14 GMT -5
And then, as princensmor has pointed out, when Kirby went on to show his creative strengths, you had decades of "True believers" degradating his solo work telling the World he couldn't do without Stan writing the words.Which is, lest we forget, a completely justified -- though obviousy subjective -- opinion to hold. There is no right or wrong answer on this topic: you either like Kirby's post-Marvel writing or you don't. And a lot of people don't, which is just fine. If fans loved Kirby and Lee on Fantastic Four and Thor, but found the likes of OMAC or New Gods to be nowhere near as well written, it's a perfectly sensible thing for them to look for the difference that seperates the two, and that difference is Stan Lee's scripting. |
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2024 4:07:34 GMT -5
I love the DeMatteis/Zeck run. I've only read two or three issues from this run, but they are likely my favourite Captain America comics I've ever read. I keep vaguely planning to start actively working towards collecting the complete DeMatteis/Zeck run, but I haven't thus far. Too many other series/runs I'm trying to complete, I guess. |
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Post by Confessor on Jun 25, 2024 13:16:16 GMT -5
I know it's not exactly what we're discussing here, but I've just gotta say...
I thought both the Ditko and Romita eras were fantastic!
The tone changes a little as Ditko's tenure ends and Romita's begins, for sure, but in-universe, I've always attributed Peter's transition from an angry, bitter, scrawny 15-year-old to a more assured, handsome guy of 18 or 19 to the process of growing up. Plenty of guys (myself included) go from being gangly, rake-thin teenagers, who suck with the ladies, to relatively more handsome and confident 18 or 19 year olds with hot girlfriends. To me, the transition of Peter Parker under Ditko and Romita (and later Kane and Andru) represents a fairly typical male transition from high school teenager to early 20s adult.
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Post by Confessor on Jun 25, 2024 10:15:48 GMT -5
Dark Empire #5  Another excellent front cover from Dave Dorman. They get way laid by a 'hunter-killer probe droid'.. which seems capable of taking out a starship. My gripe with the issue is the probe droid... exactly how big is it? In the first scene it seems bigger than the Falcon and is shrugging off missiles, but then Salla hot wires it and uses it to blast a hole in the wall, which makes it seem, well, probe droid sized. The art is not at all clear and it annoys me greatly. I'm not sure where the Hunter-Killer probe droids originated from -- whether it was a West End games SWRPG invention or whether Dark Empire is their first appearance. I'm gonna assume that it's the latter. Anyway, I agree that the size of the Hunter Killers isn't all that clear and, on top of that, I've always thought they had a crappy name. Basically, this is just a super-dooper, super-scary probe droid, which is a bit eyeroll-inducing for me (mind you, Archie Goodwin used much the same idea in the "Death Probe" story from issue #41 of the old Marvel series). The other thing I disliked about the Hunter-Killer probe droid episode is that having Salla and Shug Ninx get inside it and hot wire the thing just kind of comes out of nowhere. From a story-telling perspective is seems a bit clunky. We didn't necessarily need to see them getting inside the droid or actually hot wiring it, of course, but I feel like a panel at least suggesting that Salla had a plan involving the probe droid would've worked well. ...the Emperor seemingly immolates himself (the art isn't super clear)... I always interpreted it as the Emperor using his own Dark Side Force lightning on himself or something...  The scene with Leia and the Emperor is my favorite one in the series.. so good, and it really, to me, is the first time they really treat Leia as Luke's equal and a jedi in her own right... she outsmarts the Emperor in her own way, and give Luke every chance she can. I agree that Leia really shines in this scene. On the downside, the Emperor seems like an idiot to let her throw him off his bed and steal the Holochron (you didn't foresee that turn of events, did ya, Palpy?!). It seems like being a big smart Jedi Master Luke could have planned the confrontation with the Emperor better... like why leave light sabers lying around for him to use? And why run around and try to slash each clone, why not just blow up the room? OK, I'm gonna address the elephant in the room: Luke's whole plan is ludicrous! For one thing, Luke allowing himself to succumb to the Dark Side of the Force and become the Emperor's right-hand man, like his father had been, just seems like a really reckless thing to do, given how dangerous and seductive Luke knows the Dark Side to be. Also, Luke must know that that the Emperor will see through his deception -- which he absolutely does! Yet, Luke carries on regardless and -- even more amazingly -- Palpatine goes along with it too, knowingly letting Luke sabotage the battle on Mon Calamari from afar because he vaguely hopes that Luke's plan will backfire and he will become mired in the Dark Side. Then there's Palpatine knowing full well that Luke intends to try and kill him, which is apparently of no concern, even though the Emperor knows that Luke is a very powerful Jedi. To me, both Luke and the Emperor's motivations in this seem really stupid and out of character. ...Luke duelling the naked Emperor is very creepy. I agree. It makes for a really memorable sequence. ...the dialogue seems to indicate Leia is pregnant and Han doesn't know about it? I double checked, and it's not mentioned before this, so maybe just the Emperor sensed it? Or maybe he's talking about the future? The time line is a bit fuzzy, but pretty sure Anakin is born within the year at least. Yeah, Leia is pregnant with Anakin Solo in Dark Empire and, no, she hasn't told Han about it at this point. In fact, re-reading this issue earlier today, I found myself wondering whether Leia even knew she was pregnant herself, prior to the Emperor revealing it. The back matter this time was about the Holocron, which serves as a summary of the upcoming Tales of the Jedi series... it talks about the Krath and Ulic Qel-Droma. Yeah, more world-building for the up-coming Tales of the Jedi series, which is kinda cool. I think it's interesting that clearly Dark Horse were planning to have a sprawling, well planned out continuity and history in their Star Wars comics right from the very start, which is something that sets them apart from Marvel's earlier approach. What they DONT mention is Classic Star Wars, which reprints the newspapers strips from Archie Goodwin and Al Williamson, which is odd. (I won't be reviewing those here since Confessor covered them just fine) Actually, I didn't...it was thwhtguardian who reviewed the newspaper strips. I just did the original Marvel run. ... mentions Carbonite is not just used to freeze people. But in hyperdrives.. I don't ever recall that being mentioned before or since, but maybe that's just a detail I missed. Hmmm…I wonder if this is a mistake and they meant tibanna gas, not carbonite? Tibanna gas being used as a coolant in hyperdrive systems was something that originated in the supplementary material for the West Games' Star Wars: The Role-Playing Game in the late '80s. So, that fact was second tier cannon by 1991, when Dark Empire was published. I've never heard of carbonite being used in hyperdrives though. EDIT: A quick Google search seems to reveal that something called a "carbonite insert" is used in hyperdrives, but that's something that was apparently first mentioned in Dark Empire II in 1994. So, maybe they did mean carbonite after all, and this was new cannon they were just creating…and then they went into a bit more detail in DE II? Wookiepedia also tells me that prior to the invention of hyperdrives, carbonite was used to put spacers into hibernation for long journeys. I'm struggling with how long all this has been taking... have our heroes been on Byss a couple hours... or weeks? It seems like it should be the latter, but if that's the case why is the battle for Calamari still going on? Its very unclear. My impression has always been that, yes, the battle over Mon Calamari is still taking place and that Leia and Han have, by issue #5, been on Byss a couple of days at most. Don't ask me exactly why I think that, but that has always been the impression I've gotten. I agree that it isn't especially clear though. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 25, 2024 8:52:35 GMT -5
OK, listen up:
The tone of this discussion over the last few pages of this thread has been deteriorating, with members sniping at each over, using passive aggressive sarcasm, or combative language. All of which are against the forum rules!
Here's a reminder of what those rules say:
"This is a respectful community. Many members will tell you their main reason for coming here is the decency and politeness, even when folks disagree. Personal attacks, passive aggressiveness, just plain combative posts, and/or a general disregard for others will not be tolerated. Please play nice; This is not your ordinary discussion community."
The moderating team have already had to delete one post that crossed the line and we are also discussing potential disciplinary measures against two posters in the thread. So, let's take a breath and start being civil to one another and cut the snark or this thread will be locked.
We're all friends here: we can discuss this and even disagree without resorting to unpleasant language.
Many thanks everybody.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 25, 2024 8:21:19 GMT -5
Just saw this rather nice mid-80's Scholastic Book Club poster for The Hobbit online. It's by artist Paul Bonner, who has done work for the likes of Games Workshop, FASA, and Dungeons & Dragons.  |
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Post by Confessor on Jun 23, 2024 20:28:32 GMT -5
I've been re-reading the Star Wars: Dark Empire series for the umpteenth time in order to join in with wildfire2099 's "Star Wars by Dark Horse" review thread. It's a fun series, with lots of action and is a pretty breezy read. Back in 1991, this series marked the welcome return of SW comics, coming four years after the original Marvel series ended. I bought that in an ebay lot about 10ish years ago. Speaking of Dark Horse Star Wars, I plan to read their Shadows of the Empire adaptation in the not too distant future. I really enjoyed that adaptation...more so than the novel, in all honesty. |
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