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Post by tingramretro on May 8, 2017 3:30:36 GMT -5
The original Guardians will always be the real thing, for me-loved them as a kid, particularly the Gerber stuff. I liked a lot of the Dan Abnett stuff, but it was really GOTG in name only, and I really don't like the more recent stuff. I particularly hate the rebooting of Starlord's history and personality; I much preferred the original 70s space opera version. The first movie was fun (haven't seen the second) but bears no resemblance to the comics anyway...
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Post by tingramretro on May 8, 2017 2:56:11 GMT -5
Ok, this has been bugging me for a long time, but there are fanzine covers I'd like to post. The rules currently state the source material being comic books, but I'm going to start a thread with a poll to discuss it, and hopefully get the rules ammended to include fanzine covers. I would agree with that. I've never really understood what the requirement is for something to be a "comic book" anyway, since we don't traditionally use that term over here. Comics are just comics, whether they are weekly or monthly periodicals, collections of newspaper strips, graphic novels or albums or 'zines with some comics content. |
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Post by tingramretro on May 7, 2017 8:11:24 GMT -5
In Ghost Rider #19, two readers...Larry Twiss and Giles Dyer...both complain about Marvel's use of Satan in the comic, and Marvel's response to both letters is to assure the readers that this is being addressed. Satan, they claim, will no longer appear in the book as they have decided it is not their place to meddle with religion, which they appreciate is a very personal thing. They are sure that Giles and Larry will now be appreciating the horny red dude's absence from the book. This is the cover of the issue in question...  |
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Post by tingramretro on May 5, 2017 9:07:42 GMT -5
But most of them wouldn't have happened in a completely different way, or with different characters. Te only JSA members removed by COIE were the big three plus Robin, most of whom were not a major part of much of the team's history, and Hutress, who didn't show up until the late 70s anyway. Stories like the death of Mr Terrific (which is specifically referred to in Ostrander's Spectre ) or most of the 70s All-Star run (stories from which are referred to in the Robinson/Johns JSA title) or the Apokalips storyline or any one of a dozen others would have been basically unchanged by COIE. I don't see how their history having minor changes is any different to that of Ray Palmer having minor changes-and he appeared in a few of those multiple Earths stories, too. How is Jay Garrick's personal history different pre-Crisis to post-Crisis? It isn't, except that in the revised history, "Flash of Two Worlds" happened a slightly different way, as recounted in Secret Origins. Huh. That's interesting. I'll try to track down the revised Flash of Two Worlds. Still, I'm thinking my personal continuity standards are a bit stricter than yours - If you take out Robin and Superman, that's (I believe) all of the Super-Squad stories happening with different characters. At least in their own book. I believe they ended up in Adventure Comics or something after their series ended. I never read those. ZakuWell, JLA # 74 was still in continuity except a couple of details. Larry Lance still died, but he was "only" the father of the current Black Canary (and frankly, the actual story was quite creep... ).
ETA, everyone talks how twisted was Avengers # 200, but this issue reached the same level of insanity. I'm actually a little relieved that Crisis retconneted it.Nah, you're getting two stories confused. Cronin was talking about JLA # 220 that was.... yeah, I'm with you. That can go. JLA # 74 had a fight between two Supermen, which is more'n a little problematic given that Superman wasn't around yet in post-Crisis Lore. Also it had Black Canary moving from Earth Two to Earth One and joining the JLA which doesn't work when Black Canary is already a member of the JLA and there is no Earth Two. ALSO: As I said before, the Marvel Family crossover doesn't work at all, and (oddly) the Earth Two Robin showed up in at least three JL/JSA crossovers, and was a major, MAJOR player in one of 'em. There are definitely some S-E-R-I-O-U-S issues with Huntress (who was Earth Two Batman's Daughter, pre-Crisis) who showed up in the Darkseid story. If we really sit down and think through this, I'm sure we can come up with a dozen other contradictions. And in my eyes, any JSA/JLA story with the earth one Superman or Batman in it is invalidated, but I admit that I'm hardcore. Infinite Crisis was... what's the opposite of a ret-con? It was re-adding previously erased continuity back.. that's not "longest standing continuity" that is continuity with a hole in the middle. (I was glad to see Earth Two come back, though!) Yes, but you are talking about continuity in terms of stories, while I am thinking in terms of individual characters. Look at something like the two part Strike Force story in All-Star Comics: it has been referenced in post-Crisis continuity, so it still happened, but it must have happened in a slightly different way, because the Huntress could not have been involved. However, the other major players in that story were Wildcat and the Star Spangled Kid. How does the fact that the Huntress was not with them on that occasion change their personal history in any significant way? It doesn't. Their personal continuity remains unbroken, despite minor alterations to events in their lives. The revised version of the first meeting of the two Flashes was quite ingenious. Barry Allen accidentally discovers an entire city he didn't know about just over the river from Central, vibrating on a different frequency from the rest of the world. He discovers that it's Keystone City, home of the original Flash, which has been taken out of phase with the rest of the universe by a trio of Garrick's old foes, so everyone has forgotten it or its inhabitants ever existed. The two Flashes team up to restore Keystone to its rightful position in the world. It was recounted in Secret Origins #50. |
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Post by tingramretro on May 5, 2017 2:38:15 GMT -5
Also in the early 90s, shortly after Nuklon and Obsidian began tbeir short lived stint with the Justice League, a reader wrote in asking for clarification on a point in their dialogue; they had mentioned someone called Fury, who was she? Of course, the character referred to was Lyta Hall from Infinity Inc.Unfortunately, the editor had clearly never read that book or heard of the character...which didn't stop her from explaining authorititively that "Fury refers to Fire, who used to be called Green Fury"...  |
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Post by tingramretro on May 5, 2017 2:34:09 GMT -5
Not so much a lie as a manipulation of the truth...
In the early 1990s, I had my first ever letter to a Marvel comic printed in the lettercol of Excalibur. I had been infuriated by the way Captain Britain had been sidelined over the previous year or two in what I considered to be "his" book, and wrote an impassioned letter complaining about it and requesting that he be given more panel time. The editor replied that he was sure I'd be delighted to know that the very next issue was a story heavily featuring Captain Britain.
He was right. It did. To be precise, it was a story in which CB lost his powers and left the team. He wasn't seen again for a year and a half...
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Post by tingramretro on May 5, 2017 2:01:36 GMT -5
But most of them wouldn't have happened in a completely different way, or with different characters. Te only JSA members removed by COIE were the big three plus Robin, most of whom were not a major part of much of the team's history, and Hutress, who didn't show up until the late 70s anyway. Stories like the death of Mr Terrific (which is specifically referred to in Ostrander's Spectre ) or most of the 70s All-Star run (stories from which are referred to in the Robinson/Johns JSA title) or the Apokalips storyline or any one of a dozen others would have been basically unchanged by COIE. I don't see how their history having minor changes is any different to that of Ray Palmer having minor changes-and he appeared in a few of those multiple Earths stories, too. How is Jay Garrick's personal history different pre-Crisis to post-Crisis? It isn't, except that in the revised history, "Flash of Two Worlds" happened a slightly different way, as recounted in Secret Origins. And in Infinite Crisis was explicitly said that these characters were still essentially the same. Heck, when they saw the Superman of Earth-2 they started to remember him! They also remembered the pre-Crisis lives and friends, including Huntress, Robin and the original Supergirl, in the issues of Infinity Inc immediately following COIE #12. |
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Post by tingramretro on May 5, 2017 1:40:29 GMT -5
No, it wasn't. Seriously. Certain details of the JLA/JSA team-ups may have been altered by the Crisis, but it was made quite clear in numerous books, including the Roy Thomas scripted ones I mentioned and Ostrander's Spectre series, that all those stories were still in continuity. A number of writers on various random books in the early nineties acted as though this was not the case, but that was poor research, not company policy, as far as I know. Hmm. I didn't know that. I rescind "removed" from continuity, but I still can't count it. Since they happened in a completely different way with completely different characters, I still wouldn't count it as "an unbroken run of continuity." Stories that were kind of sort of like the old JLA/JSA team-ups except for, say, JLA # 74 or the Marvel Family team-up a couple years later which couldn't possibly have happened at all due to most of the characters present not existing doesn't feel like an unbroken run of continuity to me. But most of them wouldn't have happened in a completely different way, or with different characters. The only JSA members removed by COIE were the big three plus Robin, most of whom were not a major part of much of the team's history, and Huntress, who didn't show up until the late 70s anyway. Stories like the death of Mr Terrific (which is specifically referred to in Ostrander's Spectre ) or most of the 70s All-Star run (stories from which are referred to in the Robinson/Johns JSA title) or the Apokalips storyline or any one of a dozen others would have been basically unchanged by COIE. I don't see how their history having minor changes is any different to that of Ray Palmer having minor changes-and he appeared in a few of those multiple Earths stories, too. How is Jay Garrick's personal history different pre-Crisis to post-Crisis? It isn't, except that in the revised history, "Flash of Two Worlds" happened a slightly different way, as recounted in Secret Origins. |
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Post by tingramretro on May 4, 2017 10:25:57 GMT -5
But everything between 1960 and 1980 (including the JLA team-ups and All Star Super Squad) were removed from continuity after 1986 when Crisis On Infinite Earths made everything terrible and stupid forever. Were they removed? I got the impression that the team-ups still happened, just in a little different way. ETA: according to the excellent site "Cosmic Teams", almost all JLA/JSA team-up still happened post-crisis. The ones that couldn't happen are highlighted in red. www.cosmicteams.com/jla/_chron/jlachron.htmlThank you! |
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Post by tingramretro on May 4, 2017 10:25:03 GMT -5
The Justice Society, or at least several of its members (Flash, Green Lantern, Wildcat, Hawkman, Hourman Etc...) had an unbroken line of continuity that lasted from about 1940-2011, I think that should count. Yes, they switched Earths after the Crisis, but Roy Thomas made it very clear in post Crisis issues of Secret Origins and Infinity Inc. that the bulk of their personal continuity remained unchanged. Various titles they appeared in right up to 2011 referenced events from books published from the 40's through to the 70's or later. But everything between 1960 and 1980 (including the JLA team-ups and All Star Super Squad) were removed from continuity after 1986 when Crisis On Infinite Earths made everything terrible and stupid forever. No, it wasn't. Seriously. Certain details of the JLA/JSA team-ups may have been altered by the Crisis, but it was made quite clear in numerous books, including the Roy Thomas scripted ones I mentioned and Ostrander's Spectre series, that all those stories were still in continuity. A number of writers on various random books in the early nineties acted as though this was not the case, but that was poor research, not company policy, as far as I know. |
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Post by tingramretro on May 4, 2017 3:19:38 GMT -5
It is very difficult. I could quite happily have posted the covers to MTIO #62 or COIE #6 just as easily as the one I eventually picked.
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Post by tingramretro on May 4, 2017 2:15:19 GMT -5
The Justice Society, or at least several of its members (Flash, Green Lantern, Wildcat, Hawkman, Hourman Etc...) had an unbroken line of continuity that lasted from about 1940-2011, I think that should count. Yes, they switched Earths after the Crisis, but Roy Thomas made it very clear in post Crisis issues of Secret Origins and Infinity Inc. that the bulk of their personal continuity remained unchanged. Various titles they appeared in right up to 2011 referenced events from books published from the 40's through to the 70's or later.
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Post by tingramretro on May 4, 2017 2:00:22 GMT -5
If we're talking about characters who didn't have their own solo series, I feel obliged to mention Shamrock from Ireland, Le Peregrine from France, Talisman from Australia, the Soviet Super Soldiers and the Red Guardian from Russia, Blitzkreig from Germany, Sabra from Israel, the Arabian Knight, the Collective Man from China, Defensor from Argentina, El Aguila from Spain, the Rangers from Texas, and Razorback from Arkansas.
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Post by tingramretro on May 4, 2017 1:49:56 GMT -5
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Post by tingramretro on May 3, 2017 7:07:22 GMT -5
Also, Marvel's other World War II based super team, the Liberty Legion, were based in Washington in their few appearance, IIRC.
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