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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 17, 2020 16:36:06 GMT -5
Missed all the sword and sorcery talk, but I have a related question, though more one of opinion than of fact: why didn't Claw or any of the other REH-style sword and sorcery comics (as opposed to Warlord which I assume is more of an ERB-style thing) ever catch on? Was it just that Marvel had actual REH characters and not imitations, or was it the personnel working on the books, or the concepts, or a combination of many things? I think it was a little of Column A., a little of Column B. Overall, DC's attempts did not have A-list creators whereas by the time they were trying to compete Thomas and Buscema were entrenched on Conan. Obviously having a base in Howard fans helped. And, frankly, I'm not sure that S&S has ever had the pull to support more than a handful of comic titles. Warlord worked for a few reasons. Grell was a pretty hot commodity at the time. It was different enough that it didn't feel like a rip-off of Conan (definitely more ERB than standard S&S).
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Post by earl on Jan 18, 2020 13:14:32 GMT -5
Couple years ago Marvel did their re-numbering scheme on the Punisher starting a new volume at number 218.
Anyone know how they figure that number? I don't think they count the Ennis' Max or his precursor series to that one, but it seems like they would have to count maybe that 4 issue weird series Wrightson did, the original Punisher miniseies or maybe Welcome Back Frank. I can't figure what adds up to make the other 26 issues to land at 218.
104 vol 2 18 vol 3 16 vol 8 16 vol 9 20 vol 10 17 vol 11 =191
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 13:19:00 GMT -5
I think they included The Punisher War Journal (27 issues).
There wasn't necessarily a rhyme, reason or logic to the legacy renumbering, it seems they played fast and loose with the "rules".
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Post by beccabear67 on Jan 18, 2020 14:32:12 GMT -5
I think Warlord worked because there was that extra thing to it besides the hero with a sword visual... The Warlord had the advantage of being a pilot (as Mike Grell was) from our side of the planet and on the inside part (ala ERB's Pellucidar) he had some advantages, like a gun, though he had to make bullets for it (and a wristwatch). I tried Conan and Kull, they were in with the pool of comics in the neighborhood/school/cousins... but the fictional prehistoric history didn't grab me like real history did. Arion worked a bit more having the Atlantis thing, but I never was attracted to the big construct fictional history/lore thing as a reader, whether Frank Herbert or Tolkien. I knew people who were massively into that aspect, it was enjoyable for them, I was more into reading about Minoans, Incans, Icelandic Sagas, Edith Hamilton, Evangeline Walton, and stuff like that. Comics incorporating real history or mythology, even a Donald Duck in Old California, or Thor vs. the cask of ancient winters would get my dimes.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 19, 2020 0:41:43 GMT -5
I think Warlord worked because there was that extra thing to it besides the hero with a sword visual... The Warlord had the advantage of being a pilot (as Mike Grell was) from our side of the planet and on the inside part (ala ERB's Pellucidar) he had some advantages, like a gun, though he had to make bullets for it (and a wristwatch). I tried Conan and Kull, they were in with the pool of comics in the neighborhood/school/cousins... but the fictional prehistoric history didn't grab me like real history did. Arion worked a bit more having the Atlantis thing, but I never was attracted to the big construct fictional history/lore thing as a reader, whether Frank Herbert or Tolkien. I knew people who were massively into that aspect, it was enjoyable for them, I was more into reading about Minoans, Incans, Icelandic Sagas, Edith Hamilton, Evangeline Walton, and stuff like that. Comics incorporating real history or mythology, even a Donald Duck in Old California, or Thor vs. the cask of ancient winters would get my dimes. Grell was in the US Air Force; but, he wasn't a pilot. He worked as an artist, putting together visual aids for briefings, in Saigon, during the Vietnam War. Grell went for something different with the Warlord, mixing modern and prehistoric, as well as medieval and lost ancient technology. The villain, Deimos, wasn't really a wizard; he had access to ancient Atlantean technology and there were hints that some of it was future technology, and that Travis Morgan was in a far-flung future, after a cataclysm. Grell mixed it up a bit. Of course, giving Morgan a .44 Auotmag (well before Dirty Harry gotone) made for a great visual, as he had the big winged helmet (swiped from Kirk Douglas' helmet in The Vikings), a big sword and a big gun! All the better to kill dinosaurs and men (he had a measly .38 cal service revolver, in the debut story, in First Issue Special). Warlord derived from an unsold newspaper strip idea, The Secret Empire, which had an archeologist uncover a hidden world. He retooled it for DC and amped it up. Why this hasn't been turned into a movie, yet, is beyond me. It would be great at the box office. Grell toned down the Burroughs stuff after the first half dozen issues, or so. He started mixing in things like Spartacus & Ben Hur, Tolkien, Moorcock, and some other elements, as things went on. He also did an homage to Don Glut's Tragg and the Sky Gods comic, in one issue.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jan 19, 2020 1:01:36 GMT -5
I really need to check out this Tragg and the Sky Gods someday!
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Post by foxley on Jan 19, 2020 6:13:44 GMT -5
I really need to check out this Tragg and the Sky Gods someday! I have just completed my set of Tragg and the Sky Gods, and need to sit down and do a read of it in order. There are some interesting ideas ideas in it (it grew out of the 'ancient astronauts' fad of the mid 70s), even if they are not always successful. And the art definitely takes a hit after Dan Spiegle takes over from Jesse Santos. Santos style was a lot better suited to the free-wheeling adventures of the cave man hero than Spiegle's very controlled line work.
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Post by foxley on Jan 19, 2020 6:22:45 GMT -5
Grell was in the US Air Force; but, he wasn't a pilot. He worked as an artist, putting together visual aids for briefings, in Saigon, during the Vietnam War. Grell also used this experience in Jon Sable, Freelance where Jon had been a clerk/typist for USAAF Intelligence during Vietnam. So like Grell, working Saigon but well behind the lines.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 19, 2020 7:39:39 GMT -5
I think they included The Punisher War Journal (27 issues). There wasn't necessarily a rhyme, reason or logic to the legacy renumbering, it seems they played fast and loose with the "rules". The last time they did the legacy re-numbering, they actually included what series that were counting on the credits page in the book... for most series Lone Star now lists that on their site.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 7:45:51 GMT -5
It does feel that there was a bit of "cheating" going on. I mean, if DC had done it with, say, Superman, would they have included Superman: The Man of Steel or Superman: The Man of Tomorrow?
Imagine if IDW decided to do legacy numbering for its Star Trek books - and include prior licensees. Not sure if they could do that legally, but it'd be silly.
Incidentally, I used to do a photo competition on another forum years ago where each week had a theme (e.g. buildings, nature, vehicles, animals, etc). Either photos taken personally or from stock image sites. I titled each topic "Photo Competition" and whatever the number was. We got to "Photo Competition #6" - and then the interest/topic died out. Nine or so months later, there were calls to resurrect it. Despite the gap, the new topic was "Photo Competition #7" and not "Photo Competition #2.1" or something. So I think legacy numbering can be fine. If Action Comics, for whatever reason, went on hiatus for nine months, I think it'd be fine to resume numbering - but the Marvel legacy renumbering seemed a bit silly/arbitrary at times.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 19, 2020 8:04:59 GMT -5
It does feel that there was a bit of "cheating" going on. I mean, if DC had done it with, say, Superman, would they have included Superman: The Man of Steel or Superman: The Man of Tomorrow? Imagine if IDW decided to do legacy numbering for its Star Trek books - and include prior licensees. Not sure if they could do that legally, but it'd be silly.
When Dc started publishing Tarzan They did so starting with number 207. I believe, continuing from another company altogether. Don't call them silly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 8:08:03 GMT -5
Interesting, I did not know that. Feels a bit like "cheating".
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 19, 2020 8:43:26 GMT -5
This is the cover. DC plastered a big #1 on it .
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 19, 2020 8:58:05 GMT -5
I did a quick search and Tarzan was published by Dell and Gold Key prior to DC and They continued the numbering. I rather have continued numbering but these days, a #1 means a sales bump.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 19, 2020 9:43:18 GMT -5
It was fairly standard practice to continue the numbering of a series that began at a different company. DC did it with Blackhawk and GI Combat, which they got from Quality Comics, and Charlton did it for the Fawcett material they picked up. Part of it was to continue the Second Class mailing privileges. It cost more to file fore a new one; so, they continued an old one. That's why they often renamed a series, yet kept the original numbering, like Journey into Mystery becoming Thor.
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