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Post by tarkintino on Jan 25, 2020 18:19:50 GMT -5
I haven't seen it, but I did see Challenge of the Super Friends on R1 DVD (which also contains a great documentary!). Challenge seemed pretty good when judged by the standards of animation/stories at the time. I can't remember if there was any violence as such in it, it was certainly tame compared to what came later. Challenge of the Superfriends was as sugary as the rest of that series where violence was concerned--in other words, you were not going to see Batman and Robin punching anyone. Interesting thing is that Filmation's Star Trek, which premiered in 1973, got away with Enterprise crewmen firing Phasers at various people and aliens (and aliens doing the same), while characters fighting and ship battles were not uncommon. Then again, that was a superior show that tried to present stories as close to the adult drama and tone of the original series, so perhaps in their eyes, violence was not as much of an issue for NBC and censors, as it was in the service of the story, and not there just to be there, or exploitative in any way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 18:45:34 GMT -5
I loved the X-Men animated series as a kid. Like I LOVED it. It is sooooo cheesy now. I still like it. The stories are great, but the colours are VERY bright. It's like someone had taken the artificial colours found in Skittles and sprayed them over all the characters.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2020 19:28:56 GMT -5
I loved the X-Men animated series as a kid. Like I LOVED it. It is sooooo cheesy now. I still like it. The stories are great, but the colours are VERY bright. It's like someone had taken the artificial colours found in Skittles and sprayed them over all the characters. This is both a random response and quite beautiful. Well done, taxi master.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 25, 2020 20:17:21 GMT -5
I haven't seen it, but I did see Challenge of the Super Friends on R1 DVD (which also contains a great documentary!). Challenge seemed pretty good when judged by the standards of animation/stories at the time. I can't remember if there was any violence as such in it, it was certainly tame compared to what came later. Everything is subjective; but, allow me to present the Opposition Response. The original Filmation Batman cartoons (1/2 of the Batman/Superman Hour, alternatively title The Adventures of Batman) had actual violence, with punches, kicks and thrown objects. However, the plots tended to be thin as the episodes were about 7 minutes long. Same with the other Filmation 60s DC cartoons. The Batman cartoon was the one that really got ACT and other groups in a tizzy (because the violence could be and was imitatible by children). It wasn't going to be allowed to continue; so, compromise was in order. The first season of the Super friends tries to do adventure, while also fulfilling the new educational mandate by looking at environmental concerns. This was the era of the creation of Earth Day, the anti-pollution PSAs, and a hard-line EPA forcing a lot of clean-up of industrial mess. There is a logic to that. Episodes ran about 45-50 minutes (without the commercials) and featured more intriquate plots and actual mysteries. A trade off was the lack of violence and the lack of true villains, aside from the Raven, who turns up in one episode (and a pair of crooks, in the Prof Baffles episode). the rest are mostly overzealous environmental crusaders. The educational mandate meant that a lesson had to be taught with the episode. That mostly meant that children had to be taught the concerns, possible solutions, and how to legally bring about change. They also added child POV characters, int he Junior Super Friends: Wendy Marvin and Wonder Dog. Not giving them powers makes you wonder why the Super Friends let them tag along; but, it also allows them not to be the solution to the problem and learn the lesson along with the viewer. I like the first season and own the dvds. I think most of them are still good mystery stories, though many of the names for characters are real groaners. In reality, it owned its timeslot, when it was on. However, ABC didn't commission further episodes, after the initial run. That wasn't uncommon. They did rerun it for another cycle, though. So, we get a gap before getting a new show, the All-new Superfriends Hour. That was still an hour, but with a half hour full story and smaller mini-episodes, with the educational mandate fulfilled by craft instructions, health & safety tips, and the morality tales that dominated the mini-episodes (especially the Wonder Twins). The Junior Super Friends were replaced with real rookie superheroes, the aliens Zan and Jayna, the Wonder Twins. They provided the youth POV; but, had a more logical reason to be with the superheroes of the JLA.. This series presented some real villains, as well as showcasing additional JLA members, in a short team-up segment (one of the regulatr Super friends and a guest her, such as Green Lantern, Atom, Rima the Jungle Girl, or the made up Apache Chief and Samurai. Two actual comic book supervillains made it into episodes: Manta (Black manta, minus the color description) and Gentleman Ghost. This set the tone for the best series of all the Super Friends. Challenge of the Superfriends was 1/2 of an hour block, which included a separate Super Friends half hour. That one featured the Wonder Twins and the Super Friends, fighting various villains. the Challenge 1/2 featured the ongoing battles between the JLA and the Legion of Doom, a conglomeration of villains, all from the comics (though Giganta was a Wonder Woman enemy, not Apache Chief, who was created in the previous SF series). Originally, several other villains were to be included, including a few of the Marvel Family enemies and Catwoman. However, DC nixed some of that and Filmation got rights to some, for the New Adv of Batman. Those battles, though they had no direct violence, contained plenty of peril and action, plus mysteries and puzzles. They were exciting and engaging and were repeated for a while and were the centerpiece of the later syndication package. However, there was the problem of the LOD getting away every episode, which made the JLA look like chumps (even though they defeated their scheme) and made Standards & Practices stick their nose in and say the villains had to be carted off to jail, which occurs in a couple of episodes at the end of the run. H-B wasn't able to top that and didn't continue the formula, instead going with themed new series, with stories taken from literature and such. A writer's strike threw part of the production into a hold, causing problems with one series. They introduced a Latino hero, El Dorado, to expand their ethnic mix. However, the formula was stale. They revamped the models, with redesigns by Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez (PBHN), which updated the old Alex Toth models. they also added Darkseid and his cronies as villains and tied in to the Super Powers toy line. That breathed some life into things and gave a pretty substantial villain. That was followed up with Galactic Guardians, with Cyborg and firestorm appearing (Firestorm tuns up in Legendary Super Powers Team, before) and some other villains, aside from Darkseid, including the Joker and Scarecrow. The Scarecrow episode, The Fear, features an exploration of the origin of Batman, for the first time in the cartoons. It's a damn good episode. It isn't perfect and Challenge is the apex of the various shows; but, Legendary Super Powers and Galactic Guardians were pretty good shows. The other have some memorable episode and some not-so great ones. Regardless of what comic fans thought, the general audience ate them up, as they kept coming back with new series and repeated episodes. Much like the newsstand days, die hard comics fans were a much smaller percentage of the mass audience. Now, would I have preferred a series with the more intricate plots and the equivalent levels of violence as in the comics? Sure. The 60s adventure cartoons were more dynamic and exciting; but, they were also shorter, with simpler plots. Space Ghost was one of the best; but, after the first third of the episodes, it got repetitive, until the very end, when they had the running serial with the Council of Doom. Birdman was never particularly memorable, as one episode was much like the next and the same was true for Mighty Samson, Mightorr, Frankenstein Jr, Moby Dick, the Galaxy Trio, Dino Boy and even the Herculoids. Nothing could match Jonny Quest for adventure. It had real peril and a level of violence that wasn't excessive, not overly soft. It was (mostly) realistic). Star Trek may have had better stories; but, watch more than one episode and you quickly get bored by the repeated musical cues, the reuse of stock footage, some substandard voice acting and some stories that aren't nearly as good. Filmation concentrated on writing, which was showcased in Star Trek, Flash Gordon and Tarzan. Zorro, the Lone Ranger and Space Sentinels (as well as the Super 7 shorts) tended to be rather generic and repetitive. I'd prefer more creative things, like Thundarr the Barbarian, which had more imaginative plts, a level of violence that was okay with censors (as there was little that could be imitated) and some excellent designs, from Kirby, Toth and others. So, of all of the Super Friends series, Challenge is the one to watch, though Legendary Super Powers and Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians are decent shows, with more comic book characters. The others play better to young kids.
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Post by impulse on Jan 25, 2020 21:56:03 GMT -5
I loved the X-Men animated series as a kid. Like I LOVED it. It is sooooo cheesy now. I still like it. The stories are great, but the colours are VERY bright. It's like someone had taken the artificial colours found in Skittles and sprayed them over all the characters. The animation was also garbage. Everyone moved to slow,and maybe it was network rules, but the fights were so weak. Wolverine exited to talk tough, brandish his claws, and get thrown around.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 25, 2020 21:57:13 GMT -5
Never liked SuperFriends either. The characters had no relation to the ones in the comics. An Wonder Twins and Gleek were awful. The first season (1973) surpassed that in how terrible and misguided a superhero adaptation could be, with its focus on ecology, which was an abused subject on a number of cartoons of the era, such as Sealab: 2020 (NBC, 1972), Lassie's Rescue Rangers (ABC, 1972-73), The Brady Kids (ABC, 1972-73), and a host of other cartoons of this period. Instead of giving kids what they would naturally expect--superheroic action/adventure--as Filmation did, earning high ratings with The New Adventures of Superman (CBS, 1966-67) / The Superman-Aquaman Hour of Adventure (CBS, 1967-68) / The Batman/Superman Hour (CBS, 1968-69) along with individual Batman & Aquaman series, The Super Friends were DC characters in name/costume only. Adding to the disappointment was Hanna-Barbera shamelessly cloning its own with teens Wendy, Marvin and Wonderdog--all ripped from the Scooby-Doo mold, which the studio would do over and over again in other series produced throughout the decade (e.g. The Funky Phantom, Goober and the Ghost Chasers, Clue Club, Captain Caveman and the Teen Angels...sigh). Comic relief teens and a semi-articulate dog instantly took DC comics fans out of the story...what little story was there to begin with. Anyone expecting well-known comic villains and serious action were in for a major disappointment, as they did not "fit" the main drive to be a weekly animated PSA for the environment, hence the use of an alien family, a number of mad scientist types, and other characters you were not going to find in the pages of the Justice League of America. Despite the use of characters who were pop-culture hallmarks and had a major presence in licensing, the debut season was not a success and cancelled in 1974. Its failure was the very reason H-B abandoned comic book superheroes for three years, until the ratings of the 1st season of Wonder Woman (ABC, 1976-77) gave the studio (and ABC) the inspiration try again, completely re-tooling the series as 1977's The All-New Super Friends Hour...now with the Wonder Twins and space-monkey Gleek, clones of the original Space Ghost's Jan, Jace and space-monkey Blip. No matter what version one views, one thing was clear: Hanna-Barbera typically pandered to the worst cartoon gimmicks and censor demands of the 70s/80s. While 70s sci-fi and or fantasy cartoons such as Filmation's Star Trek and The New Adventures of Flash Gordon were highly regarded for their plots and dedication to their source/genre, H-B's The Super Friends was best known for how much it botched being an adaptation of the source material, draining the superheroic potential in favor of the same old, kiddie nonsense the studio was shoveling out by the truckloads.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 25, 2020 22:18:08 GMT -5
Except that Super Friends was not a ratings failure, as the same run of episodes was broadcast for the 1973-74 season, the 1974-75 season, and was brought back as a spring replacement in the 1975-76 seasons and 76-77 season, before the All-New Superfriends Hour debuted in the Fall of 1977. So, despite not ordering new episodes, the show was never off the air for 4 years, except for brief stretches, where new cartoons replaced it, but always returned when their ratings weren't up to snuff. ABC didn't need to commission a new show, as they got plenty of mileage of the one they had already bought. You don't keep bringing back a failure. the truth of the matter is, the mass audience tuned in for it, even if comic die hards didn't or did but complained endlessly about it.
Filmation churned out just as much humor-oriented material as H-B, to lower ratings, in many cases. Star Trek was one of their few adventure hits of the 70s, before Tarzan appeared towards the end of the 70s (and the New Adv of Batman had decent ratings). Flash Gordon didn't appear on the scene until 1980. While H-B recycled endless variations of Scooby Doo, Filmation churned out Archies revamps, the abominable Uncle Croc's Bloc (which got them permanently dumped by ABC) and junk like Mission Magic. They were also responsible for the aforementioned Brady Kids, as well as the Gilligan's Island cartoons and a bunch of mediocre live action material, apart from Shazam and Isis (though Ark II had some decent episodes and the later Space Academy and Jason of Star Command were fairly good adventure shows).
Both companies had their share of good and bad material, with ratings hits and failures.
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Post by Duragizer on Jan 25, 2020 22:28:29 GMT -5
I loved the X-Men animated series as a kid. Like I LOVED it. It is sooooo cheesy now. I still like it. I like Season 1 the best. The rest of the series is a mixed bag. Still better than the '90s Spider-Man cartoon, though.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 25, 2020 23:34:14 GMT -5
Except that Super Friends was not a ratings failure ABC cancelled the first season of the Super Friends. Cancellation means it was not a success. In the 1970s, if a cartoon was successful, the common practice was for the network to order additional episodes for what would be a second season, usually with a reduction in the number produced, airing with reruns of the full first season. That happened with Star Trek (16 1st season episodes, six 2nd season episodes) the original Scooby-Doo, Where Are You (17 1st season episodes, eight 2nd season episodes) and The Brady Kids (17 1st season episodes, five for the 2nd), among other series. This did not happen with unsuccessful--and obviously awful series such as The Roman Holidays, Hong Kong Phooey, Partridge Family 2200 A.D., Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kids, and yes, the 1973-74 season of the Super Friends at all, as it obviously failed to capture enough of an audience to justify ABC immediately renewing (in that format) it for a second season. This is why there was no natural second season of the 1973-74 show, and it was not until ABC saw the interest in superhero content with Wonder Woman (and The Six Million Dollar Man), that H-B returned to comic book characters they had not touched/produced in three years. Filmation did not have the same amount of content like Hanna-Barbera, so they did not produce as much, nor suffer as many failures. However, they produced an unbroken number of series-- 7--based on Archie Comics characters. Starting with The Archie Show in 1968, the studio simply changed the nature/format of the show from one season into the next, culminating with 1977's The New Archie and Sabrina Hour. So, as far as Saturday morning humor cartoons were concerned, Filmation had one of the most successful in history, and the biggest takeaway is that there was no outcry from Archie comics readers. In fact, I recall support for the cartoons were often mentioned in the letters page of several Archie comics. That was not happening with the Super Friends in the pages of Justice League of America, Batman, Superman, The Flash or any other title published while that series was on ABC. Filmation's The New Adventures of Flash Gordon premiered in September of 1979 on NBC.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jan 26, 2020 0:03:35 GMT -5
I wanted to really love the Star Trek animated series, but the animation was so stuff and limited... people used to dis the Japanese cartoons for being cheap or limited, but I can't remember them being as stiff and repetitious as Filmation or Krantz U.S. animation. The stories in the Star Trek cartoons could be as good as the original '60s show, but even it had some clunkers). I tried to watch that X-Men cartoon once or twice, but as someone who had read a lot of the comics it was not for me. I couldn't accept them as the same characters really, more of a simplified younger version. They even made the Dark Phoenix storyline a real yawner.
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Post by nerdygirl905 on Jan 26, 2020 5:08:16 GMT -5
I wanted to really love the Star Trek animated series, but the animation was so stuff and limited... people used to dis the Japanese cartoons for being cheap or limited, but I can't remember them being as stiff and repetitious as Filmation or Krantz U.S. animation. The stories in the Star Trek cartoons could be as good as the original '60s show, but even it had some clunkers). I tried to watch that X-Men cartoon once or twice, but as someone who had read a lot of the comics it was not for me. I couldn't accept them as the same characters really, more of a simplified younger version. They even made the Dark Phoenix storyline a real yawner. Never actually seen that series, but saw the crossover comic with Transformers: The Animated Series and well... the art sucks. It does show it’s old.
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Post by nerdygirl905 on Jan 26, 2020 5:19:04 GMT -5
Oh, and about Super Friends, I think it’s really neat. There were lots of potential for the new characters. I mean, if Sugar & Spike are able to grow up and become secret agents, why not do the same with Marvin and Wendy? Scooby-Doo Team-Up said Wendy was a FBI agent and Marvin a dentist. And Wonder Dog has something on National Security. The Wonder Twins have their own mini-series now (ending, but cool). El Dorado showed up in Suicide Squad as part of the Mexican Justice League (and cameoed as a JLA member in Wonder Twins. Samurai got some cameos several years ago. He apparently still exists in the old continuity and is famous enough Kyle has a mini-figure of him in his art studio. Apache Chief... a bunch of cameos plus Manitou Raven. And the only one who is totally screwed is Black Vulcan as he was a copy because Copyright.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 7:32:53 GMT -5
I loved the X-Men animated series as a kid. Like I LOVED it. It is sooooo cheesy now. I still like it. I like Season 1 the best. The rest of the series is a mixed bag. Still better than the '90s Spider-Man cartoon, though. You think the 90s X-Men cartoon is better than the Spidey cartoon?!! *Puts on boxing gloves and hires a gym* Fancy duking it out? Winner gets to concede to the other person's point.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 26, 2020 9:38:37 GMT -5
I like Season 1 the best. The rest of the series is a mixed bag. Still better than the '90s Spider-Man cartoon, though. You think the 90s X-Men cartoon is better than the Spidey cartoon?!! *Puts on boxing gloves and hires a gym* Fancy duking it out? Winner gets to concede to the other person's point. Boy, you sure like to fight a lot. Is this a taxi driver thing ?
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 26, 2020 9:51:07 GMT -5
I think shaxper should revive his New Teen Titans review thread. There I said it.
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