|
Post by badwolf on Jan 27, 2020 9:58:55 GMT -5
Really? I always found the Japanese cartoons to be of much higher quality than the American ones of their time. Generally speaking, before the mid-1970s, the imported Japanese cartoons tended to have very limited animation, with many in black & white, and often looking inferior to Hanna-Barbera and Filmation. Rankin-Bass was one of the first American studios to use Japanese animation houses, to save on the costs of American animators. Hanna-Barbera would offshore much of its production to Australia, in the mid-70s, with Filmation the lone hold out, until the 1980s. There were exceptions, such as Tatsunoko's Mach Go Go Go, shown here as Speed Racer; but, even Osamu Tezuka's Astro Boy wasn't as fluid as Hanna-Barbera's 1960s action programming. By the mid-late 70s, higher quality animation series began to appear from Japan, including Tatsunoko's Gatchaman, which Sandy Frank syndicated for US television as Battle of the Planets, after Star Wars. The quality of Japanese animation continued to improve, while the US got cheaper and cheaper, as they farmed out the work overseas, until the rise of cable brought new avenues for syndicated animation programming, bringing in new markets for original US animation and repackaging of Japanese shows. Those late 70s shows paved the way for the Japanese Invasion, with shows like Star Blazers, Voltron, Robotech and more. Before them there was battle of the Planets, Tranzor Z, Force Five, Tekkaman, and a few others. Despite the lower frame rate of the Japanese material in the 60s, there was a charm to the stories that made up for it, creating cult audiences for Astro Boy, Marine Boy, Kimba the White Lion, Gigantor, and 8-Man. Speed Racer was a major breakthrough, though character animation could be quite stiff. Tatsunoko improved greatly by the time they did Gatchaman, which had the 70s generation, who only got to see the Super Friends lasso the Legion of Doom, and Spider-Man capture the villains in webs, salivating, and reminded those of us who started watching cartoons in the late 60s remember Batman and Robin punching and kicking goons, while people got shot on Jonny Quest (and shouted 'AIEEEEEEEE" alot). The 80s was the real turn around from people saying Japanese animation was cheap and stiff to wishing that American animation was as good. Pretty soon, American animation was done almost entirely in Japan and Korea. Ah, yeah, I grew up in the 70s so I was thinking of Star Blazers and BotP, which were just light years ahead of the American stuff.
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Jan 27, 2020 10:09:10 GMT -5
How good or bad was the Dobie Gillis show? Up to now, I havn't ever really thought of giving it a try but maybe I should.
Dobie Gillis was a very smart, witty series, that was meta long before anyone knew what that was. No character was beyond being targeted/analyzed for their peculiar habits, hang-ups or often strange behavior, but through all of the laughs, there was a great deal of truth between characters and situations. The series only started to suffer when Maynard G. Krebs (Bob Denver's breakout role) became so popular, that scripts focused on him at times more than the title character. With that focus came the push to have Maynard "turn up" traits that were once just a part of the character into a sort of gimmick. This problem has repeated itself (thanks to producers wanting to milk a good thing) in shows to follow, such as Fonzie on Happy Days, a series that began as a more family-oriented sitcom with Richie Cunningham as the center of most stories.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Jan 27, 2020 13:46:05 GMT -5
Star Blazers and BotP, which were just light years ahead of the American stuff. I can agree with this. Well, I guess BoTP could've been light years if they had've been able to keep it pretty much as the Japanese original had been, but so much action had to be chopped out they created the 7-Zark-7 robot interludes to fill-in for what was cut. As we now know it was all worth it as there is no violence in the U.S. anymore, whereas Japan with all it's violent comics, cartoons and video games is awash with mindless brutality and chaos daily... Here's a there I said it... I wish some of the (I think) overlooked best Japanese animation series would get well translated, dubbed, and shown here instead of the stuff that's based on a new toy... I'm talking Giant Gorg, Orguss, Dirty Pair, Votoms, Doctor Slump, (original) Cyborg 009... though I did used to see Cat's Eye (Tsukasa Hojo) and Captain Harlock (Reiji Matsumoto, as 'Albator') on a French channel at least. So many great shows that are unknown to most people in the English speaking world.
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Jan 27, 2020 13:57:06 GMT -5
Star Blazers and BotP, which were just light years ahead of the American stuff. I can agree with this. Well, I guess BoTP could've been light years if they had've been able to keep it pretty much as the Japanese original had been, but so much action had to be chopped out they created the 7-Zark-7 robot interludes to fill-in for what was cut. As we now know it was all worth it as there is no violence in the U.S. anymore, whereas Japan with all it's violent comics, cartoons and video games is awash with mindless brutality and chaos daily... Here's a there I said it... I wish some of the (I think) overlooked best Japanese animation series would get well translated, dubbed, and shown here instead of the stuff that's based on a new toy... I'm talking Giant Gorg, Orguss, Dirty Pair, Votoms, Doctor Slump, (original) Cyborg 009... though I did used to see Cat's Eye (Tsukasa Hojo) and Captain Harlock (Reiji Matsumoto, as 'Albator') on a French channel at least. So many great shows that are unknown to most people in the English speaking world. This is the DVD/Blue-ray age, so there really is a plethora (word of the day) of Anime out there to view. Not like the olden days of yore when we were stuck with whatever the studio's were willing to pay for releasing/dubbing here. And most are subtitled already in Japan (sometimes the idiom's are hilarious in translation) for many languages. Come on over and visit my thread classiccomics.org/thread/4029/anime-dojo-watching for further discussions End of Plug
|
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,413
|
Post by shaxper on Jan 27, 2020 14:06:12 GMT -5
Crossovers are interesting when the players have that mix of contrast, yet similar at the same time (e.g. The Green Hornet and Kato guest starring on the Batman TV series in 1967), so there's almost a natural desire for them to meet and/or fight. Sticking Star Trek (especially the original series era) with POTA or the X-Men is schoolyard stuff that makes no sense at all, and its as bad as the nonsensical selection of guest stars on The New Scooby-Doo Movies cartoon (CBS, 1972-73) where they met animated versions of real life celebrities that had not even a passing connection/similarity to the main characters and thus there was no sense in their meeting. It did not help that many children did not even know who some of those celebrities were, or they were on projects kids did not necessarily have experience watching (how many 70s kids really watched Dick Van Dyke or listened to Jerry Reed, or Cass Elliot in what were her solo years?). Josie and the Pussycats? Of course, since the entire Scooby-Doo format /character models were ripped from Archie comics anyway, but Phyllis Diller? Come on. That's been the problem with comic crossovers like B&V meet Red Sonja/Vampirella. If you question it at first sight, then it strongly suggests it was not a good idea. Speaking as an actual seventies kid, one who was six years old when The New Scooby-Doo Movies debuted in 1972, I sure did recognize Don Knotts, Dick Van Dyke, Jerry Reed, Mama Cass, and Phyllis Diller, not to mention Jonathan Winters, Sandy Duncan, and Sonny and Cher. "The Andy Griffith Show" and "The Dick Van Dyke Show" were staples of late afternoon/early evening syndicated reruns. Jerry Reed had recently come off hosting the summer replacement variety show, "The Jerry Reed When You're Hot, You're Hot Hour," and the song had significant radio airplay. Cass Elliot had made lots of appearances on variety shows, comedy shows, game shows, and interview shows in the late sixties and early seventies that I had seen as a kid. Ditto, Phyllis Diller and Jonathan Winters and the other celebrities I've mentioned above, many of whom also did television commercials. Seventies kids didn't limit their television viewing to shows aimed at children. We also watched what our parents and grandparents watched ... because adults controlled the TV. In the early seventies, I tuned in to an episode of "Columbo" because Dick Van Dyke had been heavily advertised as guest-star, and the same for the Johnny Cash episode. At the time, I was more of a "MacMillan and Wife" and "McCloud" kid. My first TV crush was Peggy Lipton of "The Mod Squad" ca. 1970-71 - I was four years old at the time. The celebrities they chose for "The New Scooby-Doo Movies" were largely recognizable enough to kids in 1972-73. Some wouldn't be for much past those years. I was born in '79, and the New Scooby-Doo Movies were a favorite of mine precisely because I knew who most of those people were, for much the same reasons you stated above. Thanks to re-runs, I still got those references in the mid 1980s. That being said, I still preferred the Addams Family and Batman and Robin episodes best because they were the guests most targeted to kids.
|
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,413
|
Post by shaxper on Jan 27, 2020 14:11:20 GMT -5
You are being highly deceptive Taking this a bit too seriously, aren't you? Last I checked, Rule #1 of The Rules of the Road was not to resort to personal attacks in a disagreement. Take a deep breath and start over, my friend. Cody may disagree with you, but he's been totally respectful.
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Jan 27, 2020 14:19:45 GMT -5
Star Blazers and BotP, which were just light years ahead of the American stuff. I can agree with this. Well, I guess BoTP could've been light years if they had've been able to keep it pretty much as the Japanese original had been, but so much action had to be chopped out they created the 7-Zark-7 robot interludes to fill-in for what was cut. As we now know it was all worth it as there is no violence in the U.S. anymore, whereas Japan with all it's violent comics, cartoons and video games is awash with mindless brutality and chaos daily... Although I watched Sandy Frank's Americanized version (BOTP) over and over again, the moment I learned that the original series had so much more to it (thanks to a beautiful, expensive book with film captures sold at a Japanese bookstore in Los Angeles), such as not being a show featuring space-travelling teens or using a cheap R2-D2 with C-3PO's knock off voice as a framing device, I searched long and hard for any other references to the Science Ninja Team Gatchaman series. Of course, in the 80s that was difficult to come by, other than rare, bank-breaking imported VHS tapes of select episodes. Since that time, I have the original Japanese series, and aside from some cultural hallmarks (clothing), its a very timeless series, and like other anime series of the era (many from te same studio--Tatsunoko), it completely blew away most TV animation produced in the West.
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Jan 27, 2020 16:48:06 GMT -5
Star Blazers and BotP, which were just light years ahead of the American stuff. I can agree with this. Well, I guess BoTP could've been light years if they had've been able to keep it pretty much as the Japanese original had been, but so much action had to be chopped out they created the 7-Zark-7 robot interludes to fill-in for what was cut. As we now know it was all worth it as there is no violence in the U.S. anymore, whereas Japan with all it's violent comics, cartoons and video games is awash with mindless brutality and chaos daily... Here's a there I said it... I wish some of the (I think) overlooked best Japanese animation series would get well translated, dubbed, and shown here instead of the stuff that's based on a new toy... I'm talking Giant Gorg, Orguss, Dirty Pair, Votoms, Doctor Slump, (original) Cyborg 009... though I did used to see Cat's Eye (Tsukasa Hojo) and Captain Harlock (Reiji Matsumoto, as 'Albator') on a French channel at least. So many great shows that are unknown to most people in the English speaking world. Even with the silly edits and inserts, just the rendering of the characters and backgrounds (in the original source material) was still so much better.
If they put The Dirty Pair on TV here they'd have to change the name to something like, I dunno, Lovely Angels or something.
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Jan 27, 2020 18:00:30 GMT -5
The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis is smart and funny, a real precursor to shows like Square Pegs and Freaks and Geeks. Personally, I love it. (And a young Warren Beatty pops up from time to time as Dobie's rival, Milton Armitage.) And Tuesday Weld! She played Thalia Menninger. Just happened to catch her in an old episode of The Fugitive the other day too.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Jan 27, 2020 19:02:08 GMT -5
I had a dream about Maynard G. Krebbs once... he was living in a shack on top of a pile of junk for some reason. I was in a car and we were asking him if he wanted a ride. I guess this is what happens when you are partially raised by a tv set.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Spaceman on Jan 27, 2020 19:13:00 GMT -5
I had a dream about Maynard G. Krebbs once... he was living in a shack on top of a pile of junk for some reason. I was in a car and we were asking him if he wanted a ride. I guess this is what happens when you are partially raised by a tv set. "I learned the facts of life ... from 'The Facts of Life'!" - Jim Carrey, "Cable Guy"
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jan 28, 2020 0:24:59 GMT -5
I had a dream about Maynard G. Krebbs once... he was living in a shack on top of a pile of junk for some reason. I was in a car and we were asking him if he wanted a ride. I guess this is what happens when you are partially raised by a tv set. I had a dream where he was living in a shack on an island, with his best friend, a teacher, a rich couple and two really beautiful women who he seemed scared of. It was really weird; the dream kept repeating over the years.
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Jan 28, 2020 8:58:21 GMT -5
Generally speaking, before the mid-1970s, the imported Japanese cartoons tended to have very limited animation, with many in black & white, and often looking inferior to Hanna-Barbera and Filmation. Rankin-Bass was one of the first American studios to use Japanese animation houses, to save on the costs of American animators. Hanna-Barbera would offshore much of its production to Australia, in the mid-70s, with Filmation the lone hold out, until the 1980s. There were exceptions, such as Tatsunoko's Mach Go Go Go, shown here as Speed Racer; but, even Osamu Tezuka's Astro Boy wasn't as fluid as Hanna-Barbera's 1960s action programming. By the mid-late 70s, higher quality animation series began to appear from Japan, including Tatsunoko's Gatchaman, which Sandy Frank syndicated for US television as Battle of the Planets, after Star Wars. The quality of Japanese animation continued to improve, while the US got cheaper and cheaper, as they farmed out the work overseas, until the rise of cable brought new avenues for syndicated animation programming, bringing in new markets for original US animation and repackaging of Japanese shows. Those late 70s shows paved the way for the Japanese Invasion, with shows like Star Blazers, Voltron, Robotech and more. Before them there was battle of the Planets, Tranzor Z, Force Five, Tekkaman, and a few others. Despite the lower frame rate of the Japanese material in the 60s, there was a charm to the stories that made up for it, creating cult audiences for Astro Boy, Marine Boy, Kimba the White Lion, Gigantor, and 8-Man. Speed Racer was a major breakthrough, though character animation could be quite stiff. Tatsunoko improved greatly by the time they did Gatchaman, which had the 70s generation, who only got to see the Super Friends lasso the Legion of Doom, and Spider-Man capture the villains in webs, salivating, and reminded those of us who started watching cartoons in the late 60s remember Batman and Robin punching and kicking goons, while people got shot on Jonny Quest (and shouted 'AIEEEEEEEE" alot). The 80s was the real turn around from people saying Japanese animation was cheap and stiff to wishing that American animation was as good. Pretty soon, American animation was done almost entirely in Japan and Korea. Ah, yeah, I grew up in the 70s so I was thinking of Star Blazers and BotP, which were just light years ahead of the American stuff. Oh yeah! Star Blazers was my favorite cartoon back in the late 70's! I bought season 1 on Amazon Video a few years ago and watched it, and it held up pretty well.
|
|
|
Post by Duragizer on Jan 28, 2020 22:46:37 GMT -5
There's a theory that when Peter Parker was bitten by the radioactive spider, he didn't gain the spider's actual abilities. Rather, the radiation in the venom activated latent mutant genes which gave Peter powers roughly approximating those of a spider.
I have to admit, I like this theory. It would explain the irregularities in Pete's powers — his lack of organic webbing, the "static cling" quality of his wall-crawling, and his "spider" sense (none of the spiders I've smooshed in my life had a similar power).
|
|
|
Post by nerdygirl905 on Jan 29, 2020 2:14:00 GMT -5
There's a theory that when Peter Parker was bitten by the radioactive spider, he didn't gain the spider's actual abilities. Rather, the radiation in the venom activated latent mutant genes which gave Peter powers roughly approximating those of a spider. I have to admit, I like this theory. It would explain the irregularities in Pete's powers — his lack of organic webbing, the "static cling" quality of his wall-crawling, and his "spider" sense (none of the spiders I've smooshed in my life had a similar power). That catches on on another theory that says that if Peter didn’t notice the spider, he would probably be a cockroach man. I mean, the powers also semi-overlap.
|
|