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Post by zaku on Sept 13, 2022 1:23:43 GMT -5
Here's the thing, Meltzer was a comic book fan, because he used the name Oliver Queen in at least one of his novels. I have no problem with the basic plot as he cites enough precedents of mind wipes to have that as a maguffin. Fair enough; but, to retroactively rape, then brutally murder Sue Dibney, to shock the readers was just low level garbage. It was not needed to set up the premise of a threat to the loved ones of the JLA. That could have been achieved in several ways that did not involve having Sue raped, let alone murdered. All you needed were the established stories, then concoct something a bit more clever. As it was, the final reveal was a huge let down, in terms of threat, with a character no one had given a thought to in years. It was just cheap sensationalism to sell a comic. I totally agree. There is an interesting point, however, raised by the author (overshadowed, however, by rape and all the rest). What to do if a character in his past has carried out acts that, from a modern point of view, are at least questionable? The first two choices usually are a) retroactively cancel the act as if it never happened. Like when Superman spanked Lois Lane. In theory it was in continuity until the last story before the reboot but it was always pretended that it never happened. b) the act took place and was not canceled from continuity for various reasons. In this last case over the years I have seen various strategies employed by the authors: a) The details of the act are retroactively changed so that it becomes more acceptable in the eyes of a modern reader b) The topic is not addressed c) The topic is addressed by explaining why it was wrong. A good example of this latest case is Avengers 200 (but really, what were the authors thinking at the time?!?). Identity Crisis could have been another interesting reflection on the rights of the individual, were it not for all shock elements. On another forum I had a discussion on this topic, citing all the examples where Superman erased memory or forced innocent people to act against their will through super-hypnosis or the like (I have brought some examples here too). An interesting answer (which I DO NOT agree with) is that, as the laws of physics are different in the world of comics, ethics and morals are also different, so if a superhero "abuses" his powers for a good cause it was acceptable. This point I disagree. What is right and wrong must be the same between the world of comics (or fiction in general) and the real world. Of course, a few small exceptions must be allowed (technically most superheroes would be illegal vigilantes in the real world). But the basic principles must be the same, otherwise how would we understand who is the good guy and who is the bad guy? Only because the authors say so? Superheroes in the past have often performed the equivalent of a lobotomy on villains without having the permission of any authority, basically becoming judge, jury and executioner. It was seen simply as a gimmick to end a story ("Oh no, the villain has discovered the secret identity of the hero!!!") but now that the stories have become more realistic and modern science makes it possible to accomplish what it once was. just fantasy, it seems correct if an author wants to deal with the subject. I must say, however, that Meltzer certainly did it the wrong way. ETA: One of the reasons I wish Crisis hadn't happened was just to see Kara say to her cousin, "Kal, but it really seemed like a good idea to leave me in an orphanage practically MINUTES AFTER WE MET?? Couldn't you, for example, let me stay at least a few days in the Fortress of Solitude? So, just to keep up to date with the final agonizing moments of the last survivors of Krypton? And didn't it seem a little hypocritical to you to exile me to space a year just because I played with Krypto, considering you had a normal childhood and adolescence with two parents who loved you?"
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Post by zaku on Sept 12, 2022 9:20:10 GMT -5
Ok, from the mouth of the Maiden of Steel herself But has anyone ever noticed how misogynist and sexist the pre-Crisis Kryptonian society was ..?
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Post by zaku on Sept 12, 2022 9:10:36 GMT -5
A question about pre-Crisis Krypton. Have we ever seen a Kryptonian woman with the headband? In the story in which they talk about it (Superman No. 352, Oct 1980: "The Mark of a Citizen") they do not explicitly say they are reserved only for men, but bizarrely we never see a woman wearing one. There at least two I could find on a quick search.
There was Councilor Marya from DC Comics Presents #87:
She doesn't count, she's from Krypton-Prime which is way moooooore egalitarian than his Earth-One counterpart. I mean, there are women in its Science Council! And Wedna Kil-Gor from Krypton Chronicles #3:
So it seems they were rare, but did exist.
This is it! Thank you!
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Post by zaku on Sept 12, 2022 7:33:26 GMT -5
A question about pre-Crisis Krypton. Have we ever seen a Kryptonian woman with the headband? In the story in which they talk about it (Superman No. 352, Oct 1980: "The Mark of a Citizen") they do not explicitly say they are reserved only for men, but bizarrely we never see a woman wearing one. Yes, I know we see Supergirl wearing one towards the end of her career, but it doesn't matter since A) They did it only for the movie (and the protagonist no longer wore it in the final version) B) it wasn't an "official" headband, since she practically decides for herself that she can wear it.
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Post by zaku on Sept 12, 2022 6:01:51 GMT -5
I'd put it where it belongs, in the trash, never to be seen or heard from, ever again. You are so cryptic and oblique , tell us what you really mean!
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Post by zaku on Sept 11, 2022 16:26:59 GMT -5
Continuity/chronology question here... Working on an Elongated Man chronology and wondering when the "Sue attacked/Dr. Light mindwiped" incident happened. It should take place some time before Zatanna was depowered (circa JLA #191) and after she joined (circa JLA #165) and probably after the SSoSV are mindwiped (JLA #168). Any help/thoughts are always appreciated -z This chronology put the story between Green Lantern v.2 #116 (May 1979) and Justice League of America #169-170 (Aug.–Sept. 1979)
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Post by zaku on Sept 11, 2022 12:58:10 GMT -5
Even in the comics all this watery weakness doesn't make a lot of sense. They showed that just a bucket of water would suffice, so, it's a de-hydration problem? He can't breath?
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Post by zaku on Sept 11, 2022 8:32:28 GMT -5
Exactly. In every JLA mission which isn't water-related this guy is just a liability only because he exists. Really? Who's more use? The guy who has super strength, can breath underwater, can command sea life, rules his own kingdom, etc., or the guy who owns a bow?
(And I say this as a Green Arrow fan. ) You have a point! Question for JLA readers: did he ever use his super-strength in pre-Crisis JLA stories?
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Post by zaku on Sept 11, 2022 7:39:44 GMT -5
Thinking about this, as well as the Hourman review thread.. I don't think the writers realize just how short an hour is. You have to take time to travel, after all. Like, did Aquaman have to shower before and after every JLA meeting? Or do that have a tank for him to hang out in? How about monitor duty? I know it's just one of those things to add drama, but if you think about it even for a minute (never mind an hour) it falls apart. I suppose alot of comic book science is that way though. Exactly. In every JLA mission which isn't water-related this guy is just a liability only because he exists.
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Post by zaku on Sept 11, 2022 6:15:21 GMT -5
By the way, I found these two Aquaman's Who's Who entries online, one published immediately pre-Crisis and the other one post-Crisis. There are three interesting points: a) both mention he has super-strength b) post-Crisis his time limit outside water was expanded from one hour to three hours. c) pre-Crisis they said that this liability emerged after adolescence (to explain how he could have had a normal early life - I don't remember comics where his lighthouse keeper father had to put newborn Aquaman in an aquarium to survive...) .
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Post by zaku on Sept 11, 2022 5:47:46 GMT -5
According to Lee and Kirby in Thor #159, Don Blake never existed as a separate being. He was always a tronsmogrified Thor with false memories implanted. Blake appeared only sporadically after that, as most creative teams preferred to keep Thor off Earth for months at a time. Only Doug Moench made any effort to make use of the lame doctor, even giving him his own supporting cast. It was right after his run that Simonson had Odin transfer the Blake spell to the monstrous cyborg Beta Ray Bill's hammer so Bill could regain his original humanoid form. Pre-Crisis, Aquaman's super-strength came and went at the individual writer's discretion. Most tended to ignore it, though I *think* both David Micheline and Paul Levitz played it up. Cei-U! I summon the quick responses! You, Sir, are a living encyclopedia!
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Post by zaku on Sept 11, 2022 3:21:37 GMT -5
Another Aquaman-related question: I was reading an old issue of his series (no 56) and here he was struggling to fight two lab technicians and a security guard! (He wasn't at the end of the "hour limit" or anything like that) Now, the DC Wiki says that even the pre-Crisis version of him was super-strong, but in the few issues that I read I didn't see any, well, super-strenght feats. And I remember clearly that in Super friends cartoon the only two powers he used were: A) breathing underwater B) talking to fishes So, my question: the super strength thing was a recent development or the various authors didn't receive the memo? Or they just decided to ignore it?
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Post by zaku on Sept 10, 2022 4:36:18 GMT -5
Thank you. Why did they even accept him in the JL? How do one defeat him? Just wait... Aquaman was instrumental in the Adventures Of Superman (one of those anthologies from the last decade) story "Mystery Box". Lois presented Clark with a tiny wrapped box as a present that he wasn't allowed to open for some time - until the event it celebrates, probably their anniversary, actually arrives. Knowing that Lois is likely to have stuffed a tiny living creature in this lead-lined box (no cheating, Clark), he took it to Aquaman to verify that there wasn't a fish in it. Without Aquaman's help to set him at ease, I'm sure Clark would have been quite anxious for the next few days that he was going to open the box to find a dead and decaying fish. Silly Clark, that's the traditional *golden* anniversary present, and they haven't been married that long. But it is a post-Crisis story. Now Aquaman is a respectable character
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Post by zaku on Sept 6, 2022 13:01:07 GMT -5
I did a little research on the subject and Aquaman was having trouble with the time limit WHILE IN THE WATER! It wasn't a little too much?!?
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Post by zaku on Sept 5, 2022 12:31:59 GMT -5
I don't know if you read modern comics, but I really liked their last mini I read some, though very little DC or Marvel. I saw some of the Freedom Fighters attempts, which I pretty much loathed. I don't think I saw that one. It's set on (googling) Earth 10 (a reference to the original Earth X). He had quite good reviews.
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