Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 2, 2018 11:28:38 GMT -5
I think I accidently skipped 'Dark Encounter' somehow... weird. Quite the ommission, considering that it's the climax to the whole Captain Valance storyline that has been running since Star Wars #16. I was thinking about what you guys were talking about with the factory-planet being to harsh for Star Wars, and I think I definitely don't agree... it's really just taking how they run the military with Stormtroopers and applying it to a non-military application. For me, it's not that it's too "harsh", -- after all, it was established with the Wookiees of Kashyyyk, way back in 1978's Star Wars Holiday Special, that the Empire had enslaved entire planets and put the population to work -- the problem here is that it's all too Orwellian. The Imperial propaganda that the workers are fed, the system of "approved visitation periods" the quasi-robotic labourers are allowed, and the sterile, dead world of Metalorn itself are too reminiscent of 1984 or George Lucas's earlier THX1138. It just doesn't feel quite right in a Star Wars setting to me, but that's only my opinion, obviously.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 2, 2018 11:41:20 GMT -5
I don't know what the consensus on the character is around here, but I like Don-Wan personally. Maybe it's just the Dadaist/Surrealist in me, but the aspects you dislike about him are exactly what endear him to me. Also, he was the first SW character to wield a (legitimate) non-RGB lightsaber; that alone earns him a point in my book. The lightsaber thing is a good point, but to me personally, that isn't enough to redeem the character. As I said, my problems with him are two-fold: he's annoying, due to his hackneyed "ye olde knight from days of old" shtick and appallingly punning name, but also because his being on the Star-Hopper's team makes no sense. Han essentially recruits him because he feels sorry for the mentally deranged old codger, which seems way out of character for a hardened space pirate like Solo. I mean, yes, he feels the Starkiller Kid is essentially useless too, but he allows the boy on the team because he has a droid, which might prove useful to the Star-Hoppers. Don-Wan Kihotay has no such usefulness to the team, as far as I can see.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 2, 2018 22:27:36 GMT -5
OK so 'Dark Encounter'...
I really liked Valence's story arc.. it's a shame they killed him (no body, though, so maybe). I really liked at the end how Vader showed he was a bit sensitive about the whole being a Cyborg thing too.
It didn't totally make sense to me that the Stormtroopers would hate Cyborgs, but of course it could be just that one guy... the Empire is happy to use Droids of all sorts it seems. They don't treat them nicely, sure, but they don't do so great on their humans, either.
There were a couple nit-picky things that bugged me though:
-Why does Tyler Lucian look just like Luke? Does every Rebel not named Han Solo have blonde hair and were white? If they were going to make that a thing, fine, but to have it just randomly like that was annoying.
Seemed like a bold move to have none of the main characters in a whole issue, yet this was one of the best ones. Go figure.
- Lucian refers to Luke as a 'T-65' pilot, rather than an X-Wing pilot. I am aware that it's techinically correct, but it's weird.
- I realize I HATE the way they color the lightsaber. they look like DC Go-Go checks to me.
- I would have liked the interogation droid to be better.. they were freakin' scary in the movie, and I think this is meant to be the same one, Infantino just failed on it.
Some continuity bits:
-I'm not sure who that Wermis guy is, but shouldn't Admiral Ozzel be in charge of the Star Destroyer? Doesn't seem like Vader would be so talkative to other random officers on the ship. I guess it could still be Devastator, but I feel like it should be the Executor.
- I wonder why the Star Wars canon latched on to General Dodonna as the 'leader' of the rebellion? Did they not think it could be a woman or an alien? I never thought he was all that important in the grand scheme of things.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 3, 2018 6:48:52 GMT -5
It didn't totally make sense to me that the Stormtroopers would hate Cyborgs, but of course it could be just that one guy... the Empire is happy to use Droids of all sorts it seems. They don't treat them nicely, sure, but they don't do so great on their humans, either. Prejudice against droids was, of course, shown in the original Star Wars film, but this was expanded upon in the Marvel series, with prejudice against half-droid cyborgs being established as early as issue #7. It kinda makes sense too: if there are certain sections of the public who despise droids and view them as secondary citizens, then beings who are half-droid would also catch some of that prejudice. I mean, look at how mixed race (or "Mulatto", to use the vernacular of the day) people were treated or viewed in those periods of U.S. history in which institutionalised racism was more prevalent than it is today. The stormtroopers in this issue are clearly bigots, who either view cyborgs as little better than droids themselves or some kind of unholy perversion of nature and therefore worse than droids. Seemed like a bold move to have none of the main characters in a whole issue, yet this was one of the best ones. Go figure. Well, we did have Darth Vader in the comic and he's obviously a major cast member, but you're right about none of the key Rebel characters appearing. I always think it's interesting that Star Wars #16, "The Hunter", also featured none of the regular cast and that too was a cracking issue. It's almost as if Archie Goodwin found it easier to write a SW story using his own characters, rather than George Lucas's (although the restrictions that Lucasfilm placed on what could be done with the main cast characters obviously had some effect on limiting what stories Goodwin could tell). Lucian refers to Luke as a 'T-65' pilot, rather than an X-Wing pilot. I am aware that it's techinically correct, but it's weird. Maybe to us, but probably not to a Rebel who works around them daily or possibly even flies them. We hear Rebel characters referring to their ships as T-16s or T-47s in the original trilogy, so I guess it's like an "Eagle Driver" referring to his fighter plane as an F-15, rather than an Eagle (or vise versa). I realize I HATE the way they color the lightsaber. they look like DC Go-Go checks to me. Yeah, I was never a fan of how Carmine Infantino drew lightsaber blades either. I'm not sure who that Wermis guy is, but shouldn't Admiral Ozzel be in charge of the Star Destroyer? Doesn't seem like Vader would be so talkative to other random officers on the ship. I guess it could still be Devastator, but I feel like it should be the Executor. Wermis was indeed the Captain of the Devastator, which Vader is clearly still using in the comic at this time. Admiral Ozzel was in charge of the portion of the Imperial Navy that was tasked with finding the Rebel base after the Alliance evacuated Yavin 4. Obviously, at this point in the Marvel timeline the Rebels are still on Yavin 4, and so presumably the Imperial task force that Ozzel commanded hadn't been set up yet. Since we never get to see the Rebels leaving Yavin 4 and finding Hoth in the Marvel issues, I think that we have to accept that there was an unspecified period of weeks or months between the events of Star Wars #38 and #39 (with the latter issue beginning the adaptation of The Empire Strikes Back). It was presumably during this unspecified period of time that the Executor came into service and Ozzel became Vader's immediate subordinate. I wonder why the Star Wars canon latched on to General Dodonna as the 'leader' of the rebellion? Did they not think it could be a woman or an alien? I never thought he was all that important in the grand scheme of things. Well, don't forget that we didn't learn that Mon Mothma was the leader of the Rebel Alliance until Return of the Jedi in 1983, four years after this issue came out. Regardless of that though, the Star Wars novelization and, to a lesser extent the first Star Wars film, make it clear that General Dodonna was the leader of the Rebel forces at Yavin base. I'm not sure that the Marvel series ever went so far as calling him the leader of the Rebellion, did they? Unless I'm forgetting something.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 3, 2018 8:38:35 GMT -5
They don't specifically call him the leader, no, but it's clear he's in charge, and we don't see any of the others. I feel like the later ones around this same time do in fact use Mon Mothma, but that's after she's established in the movie. I thought she was mentioned in the books, but maybe that an EU thing and not the original novelization.
Now that you lay it out nicely, that totally makes sense... they're not looking for a new base yet. I always assumed that happened immediately, but clearly it doesn't in the Marvel story.
That makes sense time line wise... there have bee so many different versions now, and all crammed into the sae time period, I get confused sometimes.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 3, 2018 8:57:06 GMT -5
#31-32 : First half of the 'Omega Frost' arc I feel like the series has really hit its stride now.. some of the earlier stuff felt forced to me, like it didn't really belong, but these last couple really feel like they fit. I love that the dewbacks are in there (We discussed WAY back when you first reviewed this), and even the sand armor. That feels like a SE thing to me, so it was cool seeing it here. Even cool was the troop transport, which I had as a kid and play the crap out of.. it was my favorite toy by far. Looking at it from a practical standpoint, it seems really, really dumb to have a armored carrier where the guys you are carrying are on the outside, but hey, it was a great toy! The Tagges are great bad guys... I love that they are sufficiently powerful to make good foes for the rebels, but not as good as Vader... that's hard to balance, but they pull it off really nicely. The Omega Frost weapon feels a little out of place in the Star Wars universe, but I can live with it. It was also nice to see the Stormtroopers be semi-competent... they disable the speeder, and then follow to confirm, instead of the usual trope 'oh, surely they're dead'. It did look like in one of the blasts they were robots though, which was weird (maybe it's just Infantino's funky art) I was SO happy Chewie is better! The blasters were pretty weird though... especially since Chewie had the same one, rather than his signature Bowcaster... no reason for him not to have it here, since he and Han arrived leisurely, and of their own free will. And that comes to my one minor complaint of the issue... my would Luke go to Tatoinne to look for a pilot? We've already had him other places that were bigger and more likely to have candidates.. while I appreciate the excuse to have him go home again, since it made for a good story, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the bigger picture. The only way I figure it is if Gen. Dodonna was really just getting him out from underfoot so he wouldn't worry about Leia, which now that I write it DOES make a fair amount of sense .
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 3, 2018 13:45:32 GMT -5
#31-32 : First half of the 'Omega Frost' arc I feel like the series has really hit its stride now.. some of the earlier stuff felt forced to me, like it didn't really belong, but these last couple really feel like they fit. Yeah, I really love this arc a lot. This is, for me, probably the best arc of the entire Goodwin/Infantino era. Archie Goodwin's character writing, in particular, is really good here. Plus, the early installments of the Omega Frost arc sort of feel a bit like a mystery story, what with the discovery of the frozen Bantha in the arid desert, and it's definitely fun to see Luke, Han and Chewbacca back on Tatooine. I love that the dewbacks are in there (We discussed WAY back when you first reviewed this), and even the sand armor. That feels like a SE thing to me, so it was cool seeing it here. Yes, I remember that -- you thought that the Dewbacks had first appeared in the 1997 Star Wars Special Edition, whereas, in fact, they had been seen in the original version of Star Wars shown in cinemas in 1977. Even cool was the troop transport, which I had as a kid and play the crap out of.. it was my favorite toy by far. Looking at it from a practical standpoint, it seems really, really dumb to have a armored carrier where the guys you are carrying are on the outside, but hey, it was a great toy! I never had the Imperial Troop Transporter toy as a kid, but I wanted one. A friend of mine had it and I was always very jealous. This was the Troop Transporter's first appearance in a Marvel SW comic, but UK fans saw the vehicle again, soon after, in issue #95 of the UK's Star Wars Weekly (cover dated December 18th, 1979), during the "Way of the Wookiee" storyline. The Tagges are great bad guys... I love that they are sufficiently powerful to make good foes for the rebels, but not as good as Vader... that's hard to balance, but they pull it off really nicely. The Omega Frost weapon feels a little out of place in the Star Wars universe, but I can live with it. I don't think it necessarily feels out of place for a SW story, but I question how effective it would be as a weapon (I'll talk more about this when you've read issues #33-34, to avoid spoilers). I was SO happy Chewie is better! The blasters were pretty weird though... Yeah, FINALLY! After 18 issues, Carmine Infantino actually managed to draw Chewbacca correctly! This kind of touches on one of my bugbears regarding Infantino's artwork on the series. We know from evidence found in the SW comic itself and things that others have said that Lucasfilm supplied Infantino with lots of reference photographs of the various SW characters and space ships. So, I can only conclude that he was willfully drawing them in his own, highly stylized, and often woefully inaccurate way. That doesn't sit well with me and I know that once Louise Jones took over as editor, there was a real push to have the art in the SW comic more closely align with what we'd seen in the films. And that comes to my one minor complaint of the issue... my would Luke go to Tatoinne to look for a pilot? We've already had him other places that were bigger and more likely to have candidates.. while I appreciate the excuse to have him go home again, since it made for a good story, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the bigger picture. The only way I figure it is if Gen. Dodonna was really just getting him out from underfoot so he wouldn't worry about Leia, which now that I write it DOES make a fair amount of sense . Well, clearly it's a slightly contrived plot device of Goodwin's, designed to return Luke to his home world. But, then again, Skywalker already knew that Mos Eisley was a great place to find hot-shot pilots -- remember Obi-Wan Kenobi told him of the Mos Eisley Cantina that "most of the good freighter pilots can be found here". Also, bear in mind that at the start of the Star Wars movie, the Empire didn't even have a garrison on Tatooine. As Luke's friend Fixer said in a cut scene from the film: "I doubt the Empire would even fight to save this system." Now, even though the Imperial presence on Tatooine has clearly increased since the events of the film, this is still an outer rim world and, as such, wouldn't have been of too much interest to the Empire. Tatooine would've almost certainly had a lower number of Imperial troops stationed there than other, bigger, more densely populated places in the galaxy -- such as the planet Telos-4 or The Wheel, for example. A quasi-lawless, outer rim world like this would definitely be a good place to recruit blockade runner pilots for the Rebellion's evacuation of Yavin 4, while attracting a minimum of unwanted Imperial attention.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 3, 2018 22:18:56 GMT -5
Ok, I guess that makes sense, and Luke's familiarity give him a leg up.. ok, you talked me into it
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 4, 2018 0:21:06 GMT -5
Ok, I guess that makes sense, and Luke's familiarity give him a leg up.. ok, you talked me into it I'm really enjoying your comments on the various stories and our to-and-fro discussions. I could prattle on about this series 'til the banthas come home, so thanks for providing me with the opportunity to discuss it again.
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Post by coke & comics on Jan 4, 2018 2:35:27 GMT -5
Star Wars #2Cover dated: August 1977 Issue title: Six Against the GalaxyScript: Roy Thomas Artwork: Howard Chaykin (layouts)/Steve Leialoha (inks) Colours: Steve Leialoha, Carl Gafford Letters: Tom Orzechowski Cover art: Rick Hoberg (pencils)/Tom Palmer (inks) Overall rating: 8 out of 10 Cool fact that this seems like a good place to share. Last Monday I went to see Last Jedi with family in San Francisco (my third viewing) and who was in the theatre by Steve Leialoha!! Along with his wife Trina Robbins. I was pleased to be able to say hello and shake their hands.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 4, 2018 9:54:30 GMT -5
Ok, I guess that makes sense, and Luke's familiarity give him a leg up.. ok, you talked me into it I'm really enjoying your comments on the various stories and our to-and-fro discussions. I could prattle on about this series 'til the banthas come home, so thanks for providing me with the opportunity to discuss it again. Chatting about comics is why we're here, after all
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 4, 2018 10:04:55 GMT -5
Star Wars #2Cover dated: August 1977 Issue title: Six Against the GalaxyScript: Roy Thomas Artwork: Howard Chaykin (layouts)/Steve Leialoha (inks) Colours: Steve Leialoha, Carl Gafford Letters: Tom Orzechowski Cover art: Rick Hoberg (pencils)/Tom Palmer (inks) Overall rating: 8 out of 10 Cool fact that this seems like a good place to share. Last Monday I went to see Last Jedi with family in San Francisco (my third viewing) and who was in the theatre by Steve Leialoha!! Along with his wife Trina Robbins. I was pleased to be able to say hello and shake their hands. Wow! That is VERY cool. I love Leialoha's inking on the Star Wars adaptation issues -- especially in issue #2. It's no exaggeration to say that he makes that issue. I'd have had a million questions for him if I ever saw him. You guys in the States are so lucky, when it comes to meeting comic book professionals...both at conventions and just by accident, as was the case here.
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rossn
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Post by rossn on Jan 5, 2018 8:47:41 GMT -5
And that comes to my one minor complaint of the issue... my would Luke go to Tatoinne to look for a pilot? We've already had him other places that were bigger and more likely to have candidates.. while I appreciate the excuse to have him go home again, since it made for a good story, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the bigger picture. The only way I figure it is if Gen. Dodonna was really just getting him out from underfoot so he wouldn't worry about Leia, which now that I write it DOES make a fair amount of sense . One of the Expanded Universe books ( Tales From The Mos Eisley Cantina I think) has a character think to himself that there are only two important things to Tatooine that the galaxy at large would register: (a) Jabba the Hutt lives there (which attracts a lot of smuggler pilots) and (b) it produces a lot of good pilots in it's own right. The explanation for (b) is that moisture farms are so spread out that to stay in touch with the neighbours a lot of kids pick up piloting skills. The movies by the way give us two Tatooine native pilots (Luke obviously, but also Biggs Darklighter.)
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Post by rom on Jan 6, 2018 2:12:24 GMT -5
Happy 2018, everyone.
Marvel Star Wars #28 is one of my favorite issue of this series. As a kid, I remember getting & reading this when it first hit the stands & being both intrigued & extremely disturbed. This was my first exposure to the cyborg Valance the Hunter (hadn't read his previous appearances yet at that point), and his battle to the death with Darth Vader was great & quite chilling. The art by Carmine Infantino was stellar, and I especially liked the scene when Darth Vader was desperately trying to get back onto the dock & his fingers made indentations in the wood - nice detail here.
It was sad to see Tyler Lucien kill himself, and I found this scene quite dark for a Marvel Star Wars comic in the '70's.
In retrospect, it's interesting to see that the penultimate battle between Valance & DV occurred near deadly lava - similar to the battle Obi-wan & Anakin had in SW: Episode III - which led to Anakin becoming Darth Vader.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 6, 2018 5:16:42 GMT -5
And a Happy New Year back to you! The art by Carmine Infantino was stellar... Even though I'm not always Infantino's biggest fan, I agree that this issue represents some of his best art on the series. In retrospect, it's interesting to see that the penultimate battle between Valance & DV occurred near deadly lava - similar to the battle Obi-wan & Anakin had in SW: Episode III - which led to Anakin becoming Darth Vader. Just to nitpick for a moment, the waters of Rubyflame Lake are full of highly corrosive pollutants...it's not lava. However, just to confuse things, there are lava flows on the planet Centares, but it's not actually lava that Valance fell into.
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