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Post by rom on Jan 6, 2018 11:31:00 GMT -5
I stand corrected. However, even in reading the comic now, what Valance & Tyler Lucien fell into (which killed them) definitely looks like lava  |
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 6, 2018 15:04:59 GMT -5
Great Norem cover. Probably the best cover art associated with Marvel's run on Star Wars. Ooh, I don't know about that. Noreem's art is fantastic, but other painted covers in the series, like Bob Larkin's cover for the Marvel adaptation of The Empire Strikes Back, or Bill Sienkiewicz's cover for Marvel Super Special #27 (featuring the ROTJ adaptation), or Tom Palmer's cover to Star Wars #81 are all superior in my opinion. That's without mentioning painted covers from Marvel UK, like John Higgins' cover to Empire Strikes Back Monthly #154. (Links to these covers can all be found on the first post of this thread). All great covers, Sienkiewicz's ROTJ in particular, as it was more like movie poster art than the others you mentioned, but I still think Norem brought that fantasy energy to his cover that the others did not capture--  |
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Post by rom on Jan 7, 2018 16:21:27 GMT -5
Great artwork - Thanks for the post. My personal favorite among those paintings is the ROTJ Marvel Super Special Adaptation cover, with art by the unparalleled Bill Sienciewicz - beautiful painting, and really encapsulates the whole film to some extent. I remember having this back in the day, but have no idea where it is now. I don't remember if this was ever available as an individual poster - but, if not - it should have been. Also like the cover to Marvel SW #81, "Jawas of Doom" - this was a great issue. I like the Return to Tattoine aspect, and chronologically it was the first issue that took place after the events of ROTJ. The artwork with Luke holding up the lightsaber & Leia in the green outfit was used as the cover to a small Marvel Paperback back in the day called "World of Fire" - I never owned this, but remember reading it from a library back in the early '90's. IIRC, the stories in here were later reprinted by Dark Horse. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/World_of_Fire |
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Post by Confessor on Jan 7, 2018 20:36:25 GMT -5
I have a real soft spot for Bob Larkin's cover for The Empire Strikes Back. Also, I like Tom Palmer's art for issue #81 so much, I've got it on a t-shirt!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 9, 2018 23:54:10 GMT -5
#33-#34 (parts 3 and 4 of the Omega Frost arc) If I was reading this as a kid, it easily would have been my favorite story.. it's a very well crafted tale. I love the Tagges.. especially in the 2nd half, where both of them have separate plans to try to cover the contingencies of Luke escaping. And the fact that they caught Luke spying was awesome.. that NEVER happens! The nods to the movies that Confessor pointed out are great (the remote, letting the Wookie Win, etc) as well. I really hope they survive to come back another day  Incidently, Wookiepedia states that Ulric and Cassio were intended to be the same person, but that it was changed when they realized the one in the movie was on the Death Star, but they offer no source, so I guess what the true intent was at the time is unknown. As an adult, though, there are a few things that poked at me. For one thing, the Omega Frost generators didn't seem all the much larger than they were on Tattoine, and the whole concept of freezing space is a little wonky. Much more Wonky is the Falcon leading the other ships, and making it seem like he was somehow helping them navigate.. that makes NO sense in a asteroid field where the asteroids are moving. Then there's Luke using his lightsaber as a method of propulsion... last I checked Flashlights don't give any thrust, and Lightsabers shouldn't either. The art was annoying me too.. I hate the look of those rebel ships (I feel like he was trying to draw Blockade Runners and failing), and his Ghost Obi-Wan is really bad. The light saber fight had a few really weird panels that really made me shake my head too (like where Luke catches Tagge across the chest, but the arc he would have had to swing in to do so clearly would have went through his head). I feel like that's nitpicking, though... this it totally the sort of story that should be in this pages! |
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Post by Confessor on Jan 11, 2018 12:47:32 GMT -5
If I was reading this as a kid, it easily would have been my favorite story.. it's a very well crafted tale. I did read these issues as a kid (albeit in the UK's Star Wars Weekly, rather than in the original U.S. issues) and you're right, it was an awesome story! Actually, it still is a rather awesome story-arc, even all these years later...only let down by the quirks of Carmine Infantino's art really. I love the Tagges.. especially in the 2nd half, where both of them have separate plans to try to cover the contingencies of Luke escaping. And the fact that they caught Luke spying was awesome.. that NEVER happens! The dynamic between Orman and Silas Tagge is especially good. We've talked about Orman's impassioned intent to supplant Vader as the Emperor's right-hand before, but Silas's coldly scientific nature is very different to his brother. In many ways, Silas is actually the more threatening of the two. Incidently, Wookiepedia states that Ulric and Cassio were intended to be the same person, but that it was changed when they realized the one in the movie was on the Death Star, but they offer no source, so I guess what the true intent was at the time is unknown. Yeah, this is what I'd guessed, but I'd still like to see some proper, attributed confirmation. Of course, Archie Goodwin and Carmine Infantino are both dead now and I've certainly never seen either of them talk about this particular issue with the Tagge brothers in old interviews. In fact, annoyingly, Infantino seems to have barely even mentioned his work on Star Wars between his time on the comic and his death. There are so many things I'd like to know about his time spent working on the strip that it's a shame that some enterprising journalist didn't see fit to quiz him about his work on Star Wars while he was still alive. ...the whole concept of freezing space is a little wonky. Yeah, this is a part of the story that I always had a problem with. How the superweapon can freeze spaceships that are obviously already shielded against the extreme cold of space is a question that is never addressed -- although I take it that you saw Roquefort Raider's theory in my review? The ice hanging down from the ships and asteroids in icicles, when there's no gravity in space, is also really annoying. Much more Wonky is the Falcon leading the other ships, and making it seem like he was somehow helping them navigate.. that makes NO sense in a asteroid field where the asteroids are moving. Yeah, I know what you mean, but then again, an "asteroid corridor" is mentioned a few times in the story, without much in the way of explanation. My guess would be that there is some kind of natural phenomenon inside a portion of the asteroid field that creates a somewhat less risky "corridor" through it. That's not to say that traveling through this corridor is entirely risk free, but it stands to reason that this is the easiest way through the asteroid field, since the Tagge's themselves use it. Maybe it's a part of the field in which the asteroids move about a lot less? And therefore it allows a slim chance of getting a whole fleet of ships through with minimal losses, as long as you have a hotshot pilot leading them? It's a stretch, I know, but that's how I've always rationalised it to myself. Then there's Luke using his lightsaber as a method of propulsion... last I checked Flashlights don't give any thrust, and Lightsabers shouldn't either. Good catch! I missed that one. I'm going to update my review and "continuity issues" section accordingly. Thanks. The art was annoying me too.. I hate the look of those rebel ships (I feel like he was trying to draw Blockade Runners and failing)... Heh! You have seen Infantino's art on Star Wars before, right?  ...and his Ghost Obi-Wan is really bad. Looks more like a ghost General Dodonna!  The light saber fight had a few really weird panels that really made me shake my head too (like where Luke catches Tagge across the chest, but the arc he would have had to swing in to do so clearly would have went through his head). Poorly drawn tech, overly-angular art, bad use of perspective, and improbably-posed figures...yep, that's the Infantino way! |
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 12, 2018 11:58:34 GMT -5
I have a real soft spot for Bob Larkin's cover for The Empire Strikes Back. Also, I like Tom Palmer's art for issue #81 so much, I've got it on a t-shirt! I like it too, but when originally released, I thought his spin on The Empire Strikes Back's A-sheet was sort of missing the drama implied by the A-sheet by being so Hoth-specific. I know Larkin did not intend to just copy the poster art, but being inspired by it, I thought some additional elements could have been added, like Lando or Cloud City--  |
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Post by rom on Jan 13, 2018 21:46:36 GMT -5
My favorite Empire Strikes Back poster is not as well known as some of the others. It's the one drawn by Japanese artist Noriyoshi Ohrai. I like how it slightly uses the Leia/Han "Gone with the Wind" image, but also incorporates Lando Calrissian (who is missing on most SW posters), Luke in Bespin fatigues, the Hoth Rebel Troopers, Boba Fett & IG-88, 2-1B, etc. To me, this encapsulates the film to a great extent - and successfully incorporates more diverse elements than any of the other ESB posters I've seen. I actually wasn't even aware of this back in the '80's, since it wasn't really used as advertisement for the film in the U.S. I first became aware of it's existence back in the early '90's - it was one of the "Galaxy" Star Wars art cards that were released by Topps. Sorry I don't know how to post images into a post; so, here is a link to a pic. of the poster: geektyrant.com/news/2010/5/24/remastered-reprint-of-noriyoshi-ohrais-the-empire-strikes-ba.html |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 24, 2018 9:25:59 GMT -5
Star Wars Annual #1:
I definitely didn't like this one as much as Confessor did... the dialogue was way off, and the characters didn't feel very Star Wars to me. I kept thinking the winged people were really the Shi'ar, and a demon? really?
They also did that thing where they TELL us the Cat people are super tough, but they don't show us.. they get defeated pretty easily.
Obviously, at the time they didn't know Luke's father was Vader, so that's really not their fault.. honestly the fact the the bad guy had a Storm mohawk annoyed me more.
Katya was pretty cool, though. I wonder if the recent character Sana was inspired by her.
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Post by rom on Jan 24, 2018 15:41:11 GMT -5
I remember reading SW Annual #1 (1979) back in the day and being extremely impressed. The story & art definitely had a sci-fi pulp/Flash Gordon vibe/tone; I really dug the winged aliens, and the art by Steve Leialoha was superb. Especially enjoyed the opening sequences at the otherwordly bazaar, which I'm sure was intentionally supposed to remind us of the cantina scene in ANH. One of my favorite sequences was when Luke (using some artificial wings) had a aerial battle with one of the head aliens, using his lightsaber - nicely done. The continuity problems re: Luke's father was completely understandable, given that this comic came our prior to ESB. Note that this comic also came out before Storm got her mohawk in the X-men comics; the first issue with the "punk rock" Storm was in Fall 1983: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_(Marvel_Comics) |
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Post by Confessor on Jan 24, 2018 17:26:33 GMT -5
Star Wars Annual #1: I definitely didn't like this one as much as Confessor did... the dialogue was way off Really?!  Wow, that's not how I read it at all. I think Chris Claremont gets the voices of the core SW cast absolutely spot on. ...and the characters didn't feel very Star Wars to me. I kept thinking the winged people were really the Shi'ar, and a demon? really? I hadn't heard of the Shi'ar and had to Google them. It might well be that Claremont was transplanting a basic idea from the X-Men to this SW story. Interesting idea. As for the demon, I can't say I ever had a problem with a Force user like Kharys being able to conjure a Dark Side Demon in that manner. It always seemed fairly in keeping with what we know about the Force to me. They also did that thing where they TELL us the Cat people are super tough, but they don't show us.. they get defeated pretty easily. Yeah, fair enough, they never really seemed as tough as Claremont clearly wanted them to be. Also, that name...Catuman Warriors...as in, "cat-man", half man, half cat, warriors, geddit? Sheesh!  Katya was pretty cool, though. Yeah, Katya is a pretty interesting character -- and significant too, for being the first person of colour we've seen in the Star Wars comic so far. It's a real pity that she gets killed off so quickly. I remember reading SW Annual #1 (1979) back in the day and being extremely impressed. The story & art definitely had a sci-fi pulp/Flash Gordon vibe/tone; I really dug the winged aliens, and the art by Steve Leialoha was superb. Actually, it's Mike Vosburg or art chores, with Steve Leialoha inking. But yes, you're right, the art is this issue is really nice. It's quite inventive at times too and nicely detailed. One of my favorite sequences was when Luke (using some artificial wings) had a aerial battle with one of the head aliens, using his lightsaber - nicely done. The first time in the Marvel series that we've seen Luke having a lightsaber duel against an enemy. It would be another six months before cinema audiences would see Luke dueling Darth Vader in The Empire Strikes Back. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 24, 2018 22:25:06 GMT -5
Was the annual before his fight with Tagge? I don't know the dates, I was reading in the order presented in the epic volume. That actually would make the narration comment about how Luke had alot of practice at duels now make more sense.
As far as the dialogue goes, I felt like it was a bit stilted and formal, more so than it should have been. I always felt jarring that Luke said he was happy to be out of a starship, when his whole story is he wanted off the planet of his birth and into starships. I know that's just one random comment, but it was jarring.
I also thought it was odd that Han sent Leia to do gunnery... Luke was hurt, sure, but why not Chewie, or (more likely) do it himself? That's what we see in the movie, and it was done in a way to make it seem like that was how it happened.. Chewie flew in dogfights, and Han did the guns.
And, yeah, the Catuman is definitely a really dumb name, more suited for He-Man than Star Wars, but I was giving that a pass since I assume they'll never be seen again.
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Post by Confessor on Jan 25, 2018 12:34:30 GMT -5
Was the annual before his fight with Tagge? I don't know the dates, I was reading in the order presented in the epic volume. That actually would make the narration comment about how Luke had alot of practice at duels now make more sense. It kind of depends on how you order the comics. As noted in my review, Star Wars Annual #1 was on sale by 4th December, 1979 (possibly earlier, in late November), while Star Wars #33: "Saber Clash" was on sale around the last week of 1979 or the first week of 1980. So, the annual is definitely the first published lightsaber duel. However, although the annual sometimes appears after Star Wars #30 in reprint volumes, it's clearly not set then, because at that point, Han Solo and Chewbacca are still on the planet Orleon. So, it must be set after the Omega Frost arc, which is where the collection you're reading places it I take it? So, in terms of the Star Wars timeline, Luke duels Baron Tagge before he duels Kharys, but the duel with Kharys appeared in print first. Just out of interest, where does the narration you mention, about Luke having had a lot of practice at duels, appear? I also thought it was odd that Han sent Leia to do gunnery... Luke was hurt, sure, but why not Chewie, or (more likely) do it himself? That's what we see in the movie, and it was done in a way to make it seem like that was how it happened.. Chewie flew in dogfights, and Han did the guns. Well, that may've been the case in the movie, but I don't see any reason why Leia shouldn't man the guns. We'd already seen Leia do as much earlier in the Marvel run (issue #26) and Luke had remarked then how good a shot she was. And, yeah, the Catuman is definitely a really dumb name, more suited for He-Man than Star Wars, but I was giving that a pass since I assume they'll never be seen again. You assume correctly, my young Padawan. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 25, 2018 21:49:15 GMT -5
So I checked the reference, and actually I had it in my head wrong, it refers to 'all those sessions with the practice sphere'.... so that actually implies more that the fight with the Baron is first, which is how it is in the Epic collection.. the Annual is after the #34 (the end of the Omega Frost arc)
I'm not saying it was wrong for Leia to man the guns, it was just weird the way it happened. If she just went and did it, or Han went to and she stopped him, fine. The fact that Han told her to was the out of character part, IMO.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 25, 2018 22:03:08 GMT -5
My favorite Empire Strikes Back poster is not as well known as some of the others. It's the one drawn by Japanese artist Noriyoshi Ohrai. I like how it slightly uses the Leia/Han "Gone with the Wind" image, but also incorporates Lando Calrissian (who is missing on most SW posters), Luke in Bespin fatigues, the Hoth Rebel Troopers, Boba Fett & IG-88, 2-1B, etc. To me, this encapsulates the film to a great extent - and successfully incorporates more diverse elements than any of the other ESB posters I've seen. I actually wasn't even aware of this back in the '80's, since it wasn't really used as advertisement for the film in the U.S. I first became aware of it's existence back in the early '90's - it was one of the "Galaxy" Star Wars art cards that were released by Topps. Sorry I don't know how to post images into a post; so, here is a link to a pic. of the poster: geektyrant.com/news/2010/5/24/remastered-reprint-of-noriyoshi-ohrais-the-empire-strikes-ba.html That is a great poster. I remember first seeing this one as the cover of the Japanese press kit book, and wondered why the U.S. never used it in 1980. |
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Wow, that's not how I read it at all. I think Chris Claremont gets the voices of the core SW cast absolutely spot on.