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Post by The Captain on Jan 1, 2015 17:09:55 GMT -5
i'd have thought the hellfire club from avengers tv show was just a riff on the orginal hellfire clubs I was thinking the same thing. Ian Fleming references the Hellfire Club in a Bond book, IIRC, and even recently, the TV show "Sleepy Hollow" uses the Hellfire Club but with its own twist on the actual historical entity. This is how writers give their creations a place in "our" world, by utilizing history rather than making up their own historical entities from whole cloth, which gives it more impact than some completely fictitious creation, particularly if the fictional use of the entity has some trappings of the original entity.
The original Hellfire Club was, in part, a place where English gentlemen would go to exchange ideas with others of their own social status, but there was also a component of debauchery involved, such as drinking and sexual activities. Claremont pretty much utilized those aspects in his stories, adding in the "world domination" component to show that Shaw and his gang were a serious threat and not just a bunch of silly ponces who enjoyed playing sex games in 18th-century costumes.
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 1, 2015 17:12:15 GMT -5
Roger Myers, Jr.: Okay, maybe my dad did steal Itchy. But so what? Animation is built on plagiarism. If it weren’t for someone plagiarizing The Honeymooners we wouldn’t have The Flintstones. If someone hadn’t ripped off Sergeant Bilko, there’d be no Top Cat. Huckleberry Hound, Chief Wiggum (Chief Wiggum stares at Roger Meyers), Yogi Bear, hah! Andy Griffith, Edward G. Robinson, Art Carney. Your Honor, you take away our right to steal ideas, where are they gonna come from?
The Day the Violence Died/ The Simpsons Season 7
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jan 1, 2015 17:20:44 GMT -5
I actually think bry914 is right. I don't think it's a case of one-to-one analogs, but the basic concept of the New X-Men as an international team is very similar to the concept of the Enterprise crew, and it wouldn't surprise me if Star Trek was an inspiration.
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Post by foxley on Jan 1, 2015 21:07:17 GMT -5
The specific 'look' of the Hellfire Club in the X-Men was based on the costumes used in The Avengers.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 1, 2015 21:46:09 GMT -5
And one of the actors in that episode was Peter Wyngarde.
Cei-U!
I summon the amazing coincidence!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 23:45:41 GMT -5
I actually think bry914 is right. I don't think it's a case of one-to-one analogs, but the basic concept of the New X-Men as an international team is very similar to the concept of the Enterprise crew, and it wouldn't surprise me if Star Trek was an inspiration. EXACTLY & thank you, you explained it better than I did.  |
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Post by Pól Rua on Jan 2, 2015 8:39:28 GMT -5
I still feel there is a similarity with the diversity of characters. I didn't mean to suggest that they were identical, but always felt there was an inspiration taken from Star Trek. Actually, I'm pretty sure I've read a number of places which have said that the idea for the 'All-New, All-Different' X-Men came from The Blackhawks. |
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Post by Pól Rua on Jan 2, 2015 8:42:56 GMT -5
And one of the actors in that episode was Peter Wyngarde. Cei-U! I summon the amazing coincidence! And Peter Wyngarde looks quite a bit like the idealized version of Mastermind. Plus of course Emma Frost / Emma Peel. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 2, 2015 8:52:50 GMT -5
The X-Men did indeed rip off Star Trek (check out the first appearance of the Shiar) but not in the way you suggest. It also ripped off Modesty Blaise (Storm's origin), Alien (Kitty's showdown with the N'garai, plus the Brood), the British Avengers TV series (the Hellfire Club), the Legion of Super-Heroes (the Imperial Guard), et al, because that's what Chris Claremont does: mine other people's ideas and repackage them as his own. Cei-U! I summon the Glen Larson of comic books! It kinda sounds like you're calling Claremont a hack. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 2, 2015 8:55:59 GMT -5
Roger Myers, Jr.: Okay, maybe my dad did steal Itchy. But so what? Animation is built on plagiarism. If it weren’t for someone plagiarizing The Honeymooners we wouldn’t have The Flintstones. If someone hadn’t ripped off Sergeant Bilko, there’d be no Top Cat. Huckleberry Hound, Chief Wiggum (Chief Wiggum stares at Roger Meyers), Yogi Bear, hah! Andy Griffith, Edward G. Robinson, Art Carney. Your Honor, you take away our right to steal ideas, where are they gonna come from? The Day the Violence Died/ The Simpsons Season 7 Rob liefelds whole comic book existence is built on stealing other ideas. Supreme , Glory, Deadpool. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 2, 2015 9:34:56 GMT -5
The X-Men did indeed rip off Star Trek (check out the first appearance of the Shiar) but not in the way you suggest. It also ripped off Modesty Blaise (Storm's origin), Alien (Kitty's showdown with the N'garai, plus the Brood), the British Avengers TV series (the Hellfire Club), the Legion of Super-Heroes (the Imperial Guard), et al, because that's what Chris Claremont does: mine other people's ideas and repackage them as his own. Cei-U! I summon the Glen Larson of comic books! It kinda sounds like you're calling Claremont a hack. I kinda am, even though I enjoy much of his work. Cei-U! I summon the candor! |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 2, 2015 9:37:47 GMT -5
I still feel there is a similarity with the diversity of characters. I didn't mean to suggest that they were identical, but always felt there was an inspiration taken from Star Trek. Actually, I'm pretty sure I've read a number of places which have said that the idea for the 'All-New, All-Different' X-Men came from The Blackhawks. That's how Thomas, Wein and Cockrum always explained it. Roy has also stated that he created Banshee and Sunfire with that (vaguely) in mind. Cei-U! I summon the secret origin! |
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jan 2, 2015 12:31:06 GMT -5
Surely if the Blackhawks were their inspiration, there would have been an X-Man covered in mutant ears.
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Post by foxley on Jan 2, 2015 18:14:36 GMT -5
Surely if the Blackhawks were their inspiration, there would have been an X-Man covered in mutant ears. Given there seem to have been about a million X-Men in recent years, I'm sure that there has been covered in mutant ears. |
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Post by Pól Rua on Jan 3, 2015 1:53:07 GMT -5
The X-Men did indeed rip off Star Trek (check out the first appearance of the Shiar) but not in the way you suggest. It also ripped off Modesty Blaise (Storm's origin), Alien (Kitty's showdown with the N'garai, plus the Brood), the British Avengers TV series (the Hellfire Club), the Legion of Super-Heroes (the Imperial Guard), et al, because that's what Chris Claremont does: mine other people's ideas and repackage them as his own. Cei-U! I summon the Glen Larson of comic books! It kinda sounds like you're calling Claremont a hack. I dunno. There's being a hack and being a hack. Let's be honest, almost ANYONE who spends 17 years grinding out 24 pages of story a month every month is gonna be hacking it at least SOME of the time. And to be fair, so much of the superhero genre is pulling ideas from other places and whacking a leotard on it whether it's Bill Finger recycling a Shadow story as 'The Case of the Chemical Syndicate', Roy Thomas remaking '36th Chamber of Shaolin' as 'Iron Fist', pretty much every British writer of the 80's doing their take on Michael Moorcock's Jerry Cornelius stories, or Dan Slott and Mike Allred turning the Silver Surfer into Doctor Who. Very few ideas are created ex nihilo, and a lot of the ones that are are pretty ordininary. Honestly, if you can take an old idea, find a new spin to put on it, and execute it very well indeed, I'll take that over an entirely new, original idea who is mediocre in its execution. |
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