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Post by Prince Hal on May 9, 2015 6:24:46 GMT -5
And the world definitely seems to have outgrown outlaws. Set in 1913, well after you expect a Western film to be set, because the world had changed. Just wasn't a place for train robbers on horseback any more. I read a 1969 review of the film by Roger Ebert. He called it the most violent film ever made. I wonder to what extent that was true. Being born in the '80s, it didn't strike me as particularly violent, though I perhaps wouldn't take kids to it. But it struck me as a masterpiece of filmmaking, great cuts told the story and kept the pacing. Storywise, it reminds me a lot of what Unforgiven accomplished. I've always been fascinated by a western hero's (or outlaw's) last ride. To answer your question about the violence, yes. The Wild Bunch definitely pushed the envelope. Many condemned it as being shockingly ultra-violent. The dozens of bloody bullet wounds in the climax, in what was generally compared to an orgy of violence, were quite unlike what had been seen before. Oh, there had been violence and blood from bullet wounds, but not in the number or at the speed or with the accompanying spray, or with the resultant horrible pain or the balletic slow-motion deaths with which Peckinpaugh delivered them. The final battle was the D-Day scene from Private Ryan of its day. (Compare with the ending of Butch Cassidy, admittedly at the other end of the Western spectrum, but which was released the same year.) I think it's safe to say that it was The Wild Bunch that broke the "sound barrier" for more violence, more realistic violence, and eventually ultra-violence in the movies. Another "last ride" Western you might enjoy is 1962's Ride the High Country, with Joel McCrea and Randolph Scott, directed by Peckinpaugh. |
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Post by coke & comics on May 9, 2015 13:09:22 GMT -5
Another "last ride" Western you might enjoy is 1962's "Ride the High Country," with Joel McCrea and Randolph Scott, directed by Peckinpaugh. Added to Netflix queue |
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Post by Hoosier X on May 9, 2015 18:03:50 GMT -5
Watched my first Western of the month, Sam Peckinpah's Wild Bunch, about a group of outlaws, some of whom are getting a bit old for outlawing.  And the world definitely seems to have outgrown outlaws. Set in 1913, well after you expect a Western film to be set, because the world had changed. Just wasn't a place for train robbers on horseback any more. I read a 1969 review of the film by Roger Ebert. He called it the most violent film ever made. I wonder to what extent that was true. Being born in the '80s, it didn't strike me as particularly violent, though I perhaps wouldn't take kids to it. But it struck me as a masterpiece of filmmaking, great cuts told the story and kept the pacing. Storywise, it reminds me a lot of what Unforgiven accomplished. I've always been fascinated by a western hero's (or outlaw's) last ride. My favorite western. When I lived in Los Angeles, The Wild Bunch would be on the big screen somewhere in the city every two or three years - at least! (I remember seeing it twice the same week at the CineramaDome one year.) So I've seen it four or five times on the big screen. (A year or so ago, I saw it at the library and realized I hadn't seen it for ten years or more, so I rented it. First time I ever saw it on a small screen!)
Since the contest is about Westerns this month, I thought I'd recommend a very obscure but very entertaining silent Western from 1927. It's called No Man's Law and it's about four people and a gold mine and a remote cabin in Death Valley. And one of the bad guys is Oliver Hardy! (He's a much better actor than you might think. He's a very scary, menacing figure.)
It's a bit quirky, but I used to have it on DVD and I watched it every year or so for a while. OK, yes, one of the named actors is Rex, the King of the Wild Horses, but they did stuff like that in the silent era.
You might have trouble finding it but it's worth your time.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 9, 2015 19:32:53 GMT -5
And the world definitely seems to have outgrown outlaws. Set in 1913, well after you expect a Western film to be set, because the world had changed. Just wasn't a place for train robbers on horseback any more. I read a 1969 review of the film by Roger Ebert. He called it the most violent film ever made. I wonder to what extent that was true. Being born in the '80s, it didn't strike me as particularly violent, though I perhaps wouldn't take kids to it. But it struck me as a masterpiece of filmmaking, great cuts told the story and kept the pacing. Storywise, it reminds me a lot of what Unforgiven accomplished. I've always been fascinated by a western hero's (or outlaw's) last ride. To answer your question about the violence, yes. The Wild Bunch definitely pushed the envelope. Many condemned it as being shockingly ultra-violent. The dozens of bloody bullet wounds in the climax, in what was generally compared to an orgy of violence, were quite unlike what had been seen before. Oh, there had been violence and blood from bullet wounds, but not in the number or at the speed or with the accompanying spray, or with the resultant horrible pain or the balletic slow-motion deaths with which Peckinpaugh delivered them. The final battle was the D-Day scene from Private Ryan of its day. (Compare with the ending of Butch Cassidy, admittedly at the other end of the Western spectrum, but which was released the same year.) I think it's safe to say that it was The Wild Bunch that broke the "sound barrier" for more violence, more realistic violence, and eventually ultra-violence in the movies. Another "last ride" Western you might enjoy is 1962's Ride the High Country, with Joel McCrea and Randolph Scott, directed by Peckinpaugh. I actually prefer Ride the High Country to The Wild Bunch. Both are great films. And The Wild Bunch is probably better. But I "like" Ride the High Country more. Part of it is almost certainly Randolph Scott and Joel McCrea. But I'm a sucker for "Western Elegy" films. The Shootist and Ride the High Country are easily in my top half dozen western films. |
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Post by Prince Hal on May 9, 2015 22:49:42 GMT -5
I love The Shootist, especially John Bernard Books' great line: "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
I hope all reading this thread have seen and savored Lonesome Dove, which is exquisite (and elegiac). Duvall has said that Augustus McCrae is his favorite role.
The novel is also a melancholic, heartbreaking joy.
The epitaph Woodrow composes that Gus reads to Newt is a perfect example of simple eloquence, and only slightly burnished by McMurtry. It was a drawn from the epitaph of a Texas command named Bose Ikard.
If you like Randolph Scott Westerns, I'd especially recommend The Tall T and Ride Lonesome: lean and mean, both of them.
One of my favorite modern Westerns is The Jack Bull, directed by and starring John Cusack. No punches pulled in this one.
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Post by coke & comics on May 10, 2015 13:22:05 GMT -5
Watched Stagecoach in my search for the supposed great and important westerns. I think this was the first Ford/Wayne collaboration and the first time Ford used Monument Valley as a setting. An unlikely group of traveling companions on a stagecoach journey, with justified worries of an ambush by Apaches. I quite liked all the characters, the story, the setting. I was a particular fan of the drunken doctor who kept stealing whiskey from the sheepish liquor-dealer. I also liked when the sheepish liquor dealer would stand up for what's right and for the women, where he wouldn't for himself.
If it lost me at all, it was at the shootout at the end. While the shootout was quick, and relevant to why one character was on the stagecoach, the brunt of the story really seemed over when the stagecoach reached its destination. That it continued for so long to wrap up the story of one of the passengers seemed to break the story flow.
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Post by coke & comics on May 10, 2015 13:30:02 GMT -5
Stagecoach got me thinking about The Searchers, which I watched a couple years ago, the western most likely to top lists of great films according to film snobs. I read Ebert's review of it and was pleased Ebert's review matched my own memories. He also found The Searchers uneven, with humor that didn't quite fit or work, and a squeezed-in love triangle plot. I think with more tight focus on John Wayne's obsessive quest across the American plains, I would have appreciated it more.
Searchers is definitely more epic in scope than Stagecoach, perhaps from the allowance of budgets and technology. It created a feel similar to Lawrence of Arabia, of a true vast expanse being conquered.
Ebert also addressed the racism of John Wayne's character. It was hard to tell 50 years later to what extent the director was aiming for commentary on racism and to what extent the film was just a product of its time. Ebert believes and I am sold on the former interpretation. Though it was apparently somewhat controversial, and many in its day took the attitudes of John Wayne's character as being right and just.
In some sense, I think American Sniper may be a modern analogue to Searchers. It's a quite controversial film, with several on the internet with partisan agendas on both sides actually seeming to agree that the filmmakers endorse the thoughts and actions of the Bradley Cooper's hero, leading to liberals decrying the movie as racist propaganda and conservatives hailing the movie as a true depiction of a hero. I think the film is more complicated than those two parties give it credit for, and I think it's in the tradition of the Searchers. Where the hero of the piece is an unapologetic racist. And the film asks you to confront and think about that, perhaps while still cheering the hero on.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 10, 2015 14:27:03 GMT -5
Watched Stagecoach in my search for the supposed great and important westerns. I think this was the first Ford/Wayne collaboration and the first time Ford used Monument Valley as a setting. An unlikely group of traveling companions on a stagecoach journey, with justified worries of an ambush by Apaches. I quite liked all the characters, the story, the setting. I was a particular fan of the drunken doctor who kept stealing whiskey from the sheepish liquor-dealer. I also liked when the sheepish liquor dealer would stand up for what's right and for the women, where he wouldn't for himself. If it lost me at all, it was at the shootout at the end. While the shootout was quick, and relevant to why one character was on the stagecoach, the brunt of the story really seemed over when the stagecoach reached its destination. That it continued for so long to wrap up the story of one of the passengers seemed to break the story flow. is my favorite John Wayne movie! (Well, except maybe for Lawless Frontier, a low-budget John Wayne movie from the 1930s that is the western equivalent of a Bela Lugosi Monogram film, like Voodoo Man or The Ape Man. Lawless Frontier is absolutely insane!) |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 10, 2015 14:47:30 GMT -5
Stagecoach is a watershed movie for a number of reasons. It was Ford's first talkie western and the first western he'd done in many years. It was Wayne's first A-movie in many years. It was Ford's first film in Monument Valley. It was very innovative in its shots, particularly its interior shots. Legend has it that Orson Welles watched it a number of times while he was filming Citizen Kane.
The Searchers is my choice for the greatest western ever. And it jockeys back and forth with Casablanca as my favorite movie of all time.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on May 10, 2015 20:29:15 GMT -5
The Searchers is my choice for the greatest western ever. And it jockeys back and forth with Casablanca as my favorite movie of all time. This is next on my viewing list. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 13:50:03 GMT -5
The Searchers is my choice for the greatest western ever. And it jockeys back and forth with Casablanca as my favorite movie of all time. This is next on my viewing list. It is the best John Wayne film ever! ... My favorite Western of all time!  The Duke at his very best - John Wayne as Ethan Edwards. |
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Post by gothos on May 12, 2015 16:06:13 GMT -5
SPOILERS-- will discuss aspects of the ending of--
MACHO CALLAHAN (1970)
This is a strange entry in the sorta-subgenre of "antihero westerns." David Janssen plays Macho, a former Confederate soldier who's endured a hellish prison, escapes, looking for a man who betrayed him. But Macho's no hero; when a one-armed Eastern dude (David Carradine) buys a bottle of wine that Macho covets. Macho invents a pretext to gun him down in order to get the bottle from him, and then bullies witnesses into claiming it was self-defense.
The Eastern dude was newly married, though, and his wife (Jean Seberg) sets bounty hunters on Macho's trail. She ends up trying to kill him personally, and he beats and rapes her. This, however, leads to a bit of the old Stockholm Syndrome, though Macho does end up giving his life in a sacrificial, not to say heroic, manner.
It's sort of a confused script that doesn't know what it wants to say, except I guess to explode the myths of heroic westerns. Best watched as a curio of the period.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 12, 2015 16:21:43 GMT -5
SPOILERS-- will discuss aspects of the ending of-- MACHO CALLAHAN (1970) This is a strange entry in the sorta-subgenre of "antihero westerns." David Janssen plays Macho, a former Confederate soldier who's endured a hellish prison, escapes, looking for a man who betrayed him. But Macho's no hero; when a one-armed Eastern dude (David Carradine) buys a bottle of wine that Macho covets. Macho invents a pretext to gun him down in order to get the bottle from him, and then bullies witnesses into claiming it was self-defense. The Eastern dude was newly married, though, and his wife (Jean Seberg) sets bounty hunters on Macho's trail. She ends up trying to kill him personally, and he beats and rapes her. This, however, leads to a bit of the old Stockholm Syndrome, though Macho does end up giving his life in a sacrificial, not to say heroic, manner. It's sort of a confused script that doesn't know what it wants to say, except I guess to explode the myths of heroic westerns. Best watched as a curio of the period. I've never heard of this movie (which surprises me). Sounds odd. But I have to see it. I'm a big fan of David Janssen. |
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Post by Jesse on May 13, 2015 4:44:08 GMT -5
Hombre (1967)  Paul Newman plays a white man raised by Apache in this Martin Ritt film based on the Elmore Leonard novel. There's not a lot of action in the first half but the set up is interesting and there is lots of excellent character work. Newman surprisingly has little dialogue but what lines he does have he delivers superbly. Richard Boone gives a great performance as the film's villain, who robs a stagecoach and hunts the passengers through the desert when they escape with the money. The stand off at the climax is quite tense and the ending tragic.
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 16, 2015 8:13:28 GMT -5
This wasn't on my "To Watch" list by a long shot, in fact until I stubled upon it while browsing the western section at my local used dvd store I had never heard of it...but it had Jeff Bridges and Sam Waterson on the cover so I figured, "Why not?"
 From the image alone I think it should be evident that this isn't a Gene Autry style western...but I'll be damned if it wasn't fun.
Bridges and Waterson play two cattle rustlers, Jack and Cecil, who are just looking for their way onto easy street and they're getting their by stealing one cow at a time.
I'm serious, that's what they do, seemingly gone are the days when the bad guys rode up in the middle of the night riding black horses to steal whole herds of cows. These guys do it in a pick up truck and they cut the cows up with chain saws right where they find them... to the tune of Jimmy Buffet.
To say that Rancho Deluxe is a skewed take on the Western is a drastic understatement; like I mentioned the protagonists are cattle rustlers, the ranchers are wealthy, new money idiots, and the marshal from out of town is an old railroad detective who knows a good gig when he has one and always aims to spins it out as long as he can. And in the end, even though captured their punishment is to herd cattle for the state of Montana so they get what they want.
It's a weird movie but it's a lot of fun.
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