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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 27, 2015 16:28:34 GMT -5
Took advantage of a blizzard day off and watched "Winter Soldier." Loved it! Definitely one of the better superhero movies out there, I loved Robert Redford in it. |
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Post by gothos on Jan 27, 2015 17:03:23 GMT -5
I can look past it a little, but even for the time they were considered racist. The Chinese embassy, for instance, issued a formal complaint to the US government in 1932 over the films and later the US government would put serious pressure on the studio forcing them to stop production on any further films. Yep. It's pretty obvious that half the success of the Fu Manchu property was that it fed into a widespread anxiety about foreigners already present in the West. It's depiction of the Chinese was pretty universally unflattering. I'm glad you said "half," because I could argue that the "other half" of the franchise's appeal was that Fu Manchu's Si-Fan organization was the perfect way for author Sax Rohmer to inject alluring and/or dangerous exoticism into relatively staid British settings. Fu Manchu himself isn't altogether unflattering in the books: it's evident that he has a genius that no other character of any race can even come close to, and hints of that great ability sometimes appear in the films. His penchant for sadism is heavy in the early Rohmer books, but gets de-emphasized later on. Still, I can see why the Chinese people of the period would rather not feel themselves represented by a torture-happy genius, as opposed to, say, a lovable family-man detective. |
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Post by gothos on Jan 27, 2015 17:08:02 GMT -5
Most first chapters are a bit longer than the succeeding ones, too, Shax. A couple of recommendations of good serials: Perils of Nyoka (aka Nyoka and the Tigermen; aka Nyoka and the Lost Secrets of Hippocrates); Daredevils of the Red Circle; Zorro's Fighting Legion; The Masked Marvel (with one of the most convincing falls from a building ever);and Spy Smasher. These are indeed some of the best, and I also think CAPTAIN MARVEL is one of the best ever. When I listed my "hundred-best" movies with "superhero-like" qualities, I included MARVEL, NYOKA, and the wild Bela Lugosi serial THE PHANTOM CREEPS (because he's a mad-scientist "super-villain" in it). This month I've watched a fair number of adventure-films with superhero-ish qualities, but not that many belonging to the genre as such. I plan to re-watch THE INCREDIBLES this week, though, which also made the top hundred. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 27, 2015 17:42:05 GMT -5
Yep. It's pretty obvious that half the success of the Fu Manchu property was that it fed into a widespread anxiety about foreigners already present in the West. It's depiction of the Chinese was pretty universally unflattering. I'm glad you said "half," because I could argue that the "other half" of the franchise's appeal was that Fu Manchu's Si-Fan organization was the perfect way for author Sax Rohmer to inject alluring and/or dangerous exoticism into relatively staid British settings. Plus Fu Manchu is the ultimate intellectual villain template. Even Doctor Doom borrows from his book. In my mind, though, Fu Manchu is the ultimate incarnate of Western anxieties towards foreigners -- a savage exposed to all the Western sciences and technologies, but with a sinister lack of moral compass directing that knowledge. It's the same reason people fear foreigners today: not really that they don't know the social norms and don't speak the language, but more that THEY might one day be on equal footing with their Western counterparts, using all that knowledge and power to further their own morals and cultures instead of serving ours. |
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Post by robsuperfriend63 on Jan 27, 2015 22:58:47 GMT -5
Also, if you are interested in characters like The Rocketeer, I recommend in this order you look for KING OF THE ROCKET MEN, RADAR MEN FROM THE MOON, & ZOMBIES OF THE STRATOSPHERE.  The last one has a very young Leonard Nimoy (Spock from Star Trek) playing a small part as a Martian. The concept is fun but of those only King of the Rocketmen is worth watching. Agreed, but what I liked about Radar Men was that you saw actor Clayton Moore (from The Lone Ranger) play a thug in the story. And what got me to watch Zombies was I was curious to see Leonard Nimoy in it. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 27, 2015 23:04:33 GMT -5
I'd forgotten another old favorite serial that also featured Clayton Moore as a bad guy, The Crimson Ghost. (Thanks, Rob!) Plus it had what may be the best villain mask ever, later "adopted" by The Misfits  |
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Post by gothos on Jan 28, 2015 16:27:27 GMT -5
I'm glad you said "half," because I could argue that the "other half" of the franchise's appeal was that Fu Manchu's Si-Fan organization was the perfect way for author Sax Rohmer to inject alluring and/or dangerous exoticism into relatively staid British settings. Plus Fu Manchu is the ultimate intellectual villain template. Even Doctor Doom borrows from his book. In my mind, though, Fu Manchu is the ultimate incarnate of Western anxieties towards foreigners -- a savage exposed to all the Western sciences and technologies, but with a sinister lack of moral compass directing that knowledge. It's the same reason people fear foreigners today: not really that they don't know the social norms and don't speak the language, but more that THEY might one day be on equal footing with their Western counterparts, using all that knowledge and power to further their own morals and cultures instead of serving ours. That might be a plausible reading of a lot of power-mad geniuses, and in truth it applies pretty well to Doctor Doom, according to the origin given him by Lee and Kirby. In his youth Victor Von Doom shows a facility with technology, essentially duplicating the wonders of Western science even though he comes from a "backward" country. But unlike Western-born Reed Richards, Von Doom has a taint in his background-- his mother was both a gypsy and a witch-- and so it's broadly implied that he won't be able to be "normal" like all the good American boys. Fu Manchu's case is different in that he hails from China, which was advanced in the early sciences long before Europe-- as Biggers' Charlie Chan once put it, "When Englishman was painting himself blue." With a super-fiend like Fu Manchu, it's not so much that he comes from barbarism and acquires Western technology. It's more like, his people were advanced when white people weren't, and so he conjures with anxieties about whether a once-advanced race might become dominant once more. Again, I speak only of the books; the movies don't clearly come down on one side or the other IMO. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 28, 2015 19:05:14 GMT -5
Plus Fu Manchu is the ultimate intellectual villain template. Even Doctor Doom borrows from his book. In my mind, though, Fu Manchu is the ultimate incarnate of Western anxieties towards foreigners -- a savage exposed to all the Western sciences and technologies, but with a sinister lack of moral compass directing that knowledge. It's the same reason people fear foreigners today: not really that they don't know the social norms and don't speak the language, but more that THEY might one day be on equal footing with their Western counterparts, using all that knowledge and power to further their own morals and cultures instead of serving ours. That might be a plausible reading of a lot of power-mad geniuses, and in truth it applies pretty well to Doctor Doom, according to the origin given him by Lee and Kirby. In his youth Victor Von Doom shows a facility with technology, essentially duplicating the wonders of Western science even though he comes from a "backward" country. But unlike Western-born Reed Richards, Von Doom has a taint in his background-- his mother was both a gypsy and a witch-- and so it's broadly implied that he won't be able to be "normal" like all the good American boys. Fu Manchu's case is different in that he hails from China, which was advanced in the early sciences long before Europe-- as Biggers' Charlie Chan once put it, "When Englishman was painting himself blue." With a super-fiend like Fu Manchu, it's not so much that he comes from barbarism and acquires Western technology. It's more like, his people were advanced when white people weren't, and so he conjures with anxieties about whether a once-advanced race might become dominant once more. Again, I speak only of the books; the movies don't clearly come down on one side or the other IMO. I could have sworn the first book indicates that he received his education in the West, and at Ivy League universities. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 28, 2015 19:31:51 GMT -5
That might be a plausible reading of a lot of power-mad geniuses, and in truth it applies pretty well to Doctor Doom, according to the origin given him by Lee and Kirby. In his youth Victor Von Doom shows a facility with technology, essentially duplicating the wonders of Western science even though he comes from a "backward" country. But unlike Western-born Reed Richards, Von Doom has a taint in his background-- his mother was both a gypsy and a witch-- and so it's broadly implied that he won't be able to be "normal" like all the good American boys. Fu Manchu's case is different in that he hails from China, which was advanced in the early sciences long before Europe-- as Biggers' Charlie Chan once put it, "When Englishman was painting himself blue." With a super-fiend like Fu Manchu, it's not so much that he comes from barbarism and acquires Western technology. It's more like, his people were advanced when white people weren't, and so he conjures with anxieties about whether a once-advanced race might become dominant once more. Again, I speak only of the books; the movies don't clearly come down on one side or the other IMO. I could have sworn the first book indicates that he received his education in the West, and at Ivy League universities. It's been a Looong time since I read The Mystery of Doctor Fu Manchu so I could be wrong, but I think the origins of his education came much later in one of the books from the 30's in either the Daughter or the Bride of Fu Manchu. I get those two mixed up, so it could be either...or neither as the case may be but I feel like he was more mysterious in the original novel. The Western education definitely did come out though, so you are definitely right on that account, I'm just not sure when. These books are definitely guilty pleasures for me, I look at the covers and I know they represent some terrible racial stereotypes...but they're actually pretty well written thrillers, and I've read nearly all the originals by Sax Rohmer. I think this is why I like Ra's Al Ghul so much, he has everything I love about Fu Manchu but he's a much less offensive racial stereotype. |
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Post by robsuperfriend63 on Jan 28, 2015 20:57:06 GMT -5
I'd forgotten another old favorite serial that also featured Clayton Moore as a bad guy, The Crimson Skull. Plus it had what may be the best villain mask ever, later "adopted" by The Misfits I don't mean to overstep on your post, but the correct title is The Crimson Ghost: I agree it is a good villain mask. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 28, 2015 21:57:16 GMT -5
I'd forgotten another old favorite serial that also featured Clayton Moore as a bad guy, The Crimson Skull. Plus it had what may be the best villain mask ever, later "adopted" by The Misfits I don't mean to overstep on your post, but the correct title is The Crimson Ghost: I agree it is a good villain mask. No apology necessary. Don't know how I missed that! Noted and corrected.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 22:07:48 GMT -5
MARVEL'S AVENGERS is on tonight on FXIt's holds up very well on the small screen tonight on FX and I was very impressed of the great action sequences from the last hour on. Man, it was intense, well-fought, and most of all very so dramatic that I was in awe of how well Captain America organized the team of Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, The Mighty Thor, Iron Man, and the Incredible Hulk in one far-out blazing sequences that was beyond description. Fantastic from start to finish and Loki was beyond evil and I was impressed by the whole thing. Director Fury played by Samuel L. Jackson was sensational. 
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Post by robsuperfriend63 on Jan 30, 2015 15:12:18 GMT -5
Here is another movie serial from 1940, The Green Archer.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 30, 2015 21:07:22 GMT -5
One day left to have a massive movie marathon and beat thwhtguardian for the month  |
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Post by gothos on Jan 31, 2015 14:28:09 GMT -5
I could have sworn the first book indicates that he received his education in the West, and at Ivy League universities. It's been a Looong time since I read The Mystery of Doctor Fu Manchu so I could be wrong, but I think the origins of his education came much later in one of the books from the 30's in either the Daughter or the Bride of Fu Manchu. I get those two mixed up, so it could be either...or neither as the case may be but I feel like he was more mysterious in the original novel. The Western education definitely did come out though, so you are definitely right on that account, I'm just not sure when. These books are definitely guilty pleasures for me, I look at the covers and I know they represent some terrible racial stereotypes...but they're actually pretty well written thrillers, and I've read nearly all the originals by Sax Rohmer. I think this is why I like Ra's Al Ghul so much, he has everything I love about Fu Manchu but he's a much less offensive racial stereotype. I've enjoyed them greatly too, and have considered giving the whole series a big re-read, rather than just isolated novels. It might be interesting to see how often Fu uses modern technology-- in one novel, he has a pocket disintegrator!-- and how often he invokes the early sciences of the ancient world, including psychic techniques, various diseases, and zombies. As for the film-theme, I didn't get INCREDIBLES watched, but I did watch the serial DARKEST AFRICA, which might be the first time the phrase "Bat-Man" made it to the silver screen. |
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