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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 19:16:52 GMT -5
In my opinion, a secular state does not frown upon religion; it simply does not take it into account. That all depends too. When you're marrying your daughter off to your uncle at the age of 8 for religious reasons, it needs some frowning on. When you're beheading a woman for adultery, that too. Or when you deny your children medical care and substitute it with faith healing. Sharia law, fundamentalist mormonism, snake handling, scientology, all the way down to new age hippy sex cults, there is plenty of stuff to frown upon there. For the most part, if the only person you hurt is yourself, I don't care. It's when the faith involves hurting kids (as it almost ALWAYS does when the parents are involved in said faith) that I have a problem. A big problem.I even think home schooling (or private schooling) kids with alternative curriculum should be outlawed. You want to teach your kid about creation? Fine, it takes about five minutes. Do it on your own time. Purposefully denying them a real education because it conflicts with the faith you've chosen for them can potentially lower the glass ceiling on them, making it harder for them to get into college, and limiting their possible career choices when they find a college willing to accept them. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 20, 2015 19:27:04 GMT -5
In my opinion, a secular state does not frown upon religion; it simply does not take it into account. That all depends too. When you're marrying your daughter off to your uncle at the age of 8 for religious reasons, it needs some frowning on. That's actually my point, dupont: a truly secular state that establishes the legal marriage age at 18 will not take into account that to members of this or that faith, it is supposed to be 12 or 8 or zero. It will say "the age of consent is 18, period". The whole concept of religious exception would be completely ignored, and if someone wanted to marry a baby, the state's opposition would have nothing to do with religion but simply with the law of the land. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 1:56:27 GMT -5
Ah, I get you. Yeah, that works.
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jan 21, 2015 10:40:51 GMT -5
That all depends too. When you're marrying your daughter off to your uncle at the age of 8 for religious reasons, it needs some frowning on. That's actually my point, dupont: a truly secular state that establishes the legal marriage age at 18 will not take into account that to members of this or that faith, it is supposed to be 12 or 8 or zero. It will say "the age of consent is 18, period". The whole concept of religious exception would be completely ignored, and if someone wanted to marry a baby, the state's opposition would have nothing to do with religion but simply with the law of the land. I was going to respond, but as usual, you made it unnecessary, because I completely agree. It infuriates me when people try to cloak immoral, stupid, and creepy stuff under their "religion". You believe that doctors are unnecessary because God will cure you of anything and everything? If you choose to avoid doctors for that reason, fine and dandy. That's your right. You choose to let your child suffer or die rather than going to a doctor, then you've stepped over the line because that child has no choice in the matter. Same with marrying off a child. You have every right to practice your religion, no matter what it may be or how weird it seems to someone else, until the point it affects someone else or violates the law. Same concept as freedom of speech and yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 1:24:27 GMT -5
I'll go further, and say even if you are an adult and denying medical treatment to yourself was your choice, and you opted for faith healing instead, the faith healer is providing a medical service. A fraudulent one, and if it results in death I think the faith healer should be held for malpractice.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 22, 2015 10:46:27 GMT -5
I'll go further, and say even if you are an adult and denying medical treatment to yourself was your choice, and you opted for faith healing instead, the faith healer is providing a medical service. A fraudulent one, and if it results in death I think the faith healer should be held for malpractice. By this logic, 6 million grannies will be jailed for prescibing chicken soup |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jan 22, 2015 11:05:24 GMT -5
I'll go further, and say even if you are an adult and denying medical treatment to yourself was your choice, and you opted for faith healing instead, the faith healer is providing a medical service. A fraudulent one, and if it results in death I think the faith healer should be held for malpractice. Can't argue with that. In fact, I'd go a bit further and say that if the faith healer was claiming to be able to treat/cure medical conditions, they should be required to have a medical license just like any other medical professional. If they don't, they should be prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license. We had a case a year or two ago around here where a woman was charging people cut-rates to put braces on their kids' teeth. The problem was, she wasn't qualified, licensed, or trained, and she was doing it on her living room couch. She contended that this was perfectly normal and accepted in the culture she was from. The authorities didn't accept this, especially in view of the damages and infections that she'd caused these kids with her shoddy work. Whether it's because of "religion" or "culture" or whatever, these types of laws were made to protect people from being harmed and taken advantage of. As an aside, one of the more unintentionally funny things I ever saw on TV was years ago when I lived down south. I was flipping through the channels and came across a church service show that featured a faith healer. What made it funny was that the "healer" and the "patient" apparently didn't have their stories straight, because one said the "condition" had been going on for a couple of years and the other said lifelong. When it came time to do the laying on of hands, the "healer" was apparently irritated because he smacked the guy extra hard on the forehead and laid him out like a fish. |
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Post by badwolf on Jan 22, 2015 11:15:57 GMT -5
I'll go further, and say even if you are an adult and denying medical treatment to yourself was your choice, and you opted for faith healing instead, the faith healer is providing a medical service. A fraudulent one, and if it results in death I think the faith healer should be held for malpractice. By this logic, 6 million grannies will be jailed for prescribing chicken soup Chicken soup really does work, though. It's the onions. There's no "medical" (pharmaceutical) remedy for the common cold. |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jan 22, 2015 11:40:28 GMT -5
By this logic, 6 million grannies will be jailed for prescribing chicken soup Chicken soup really does work, though. It's the onions. There's no "medical" (pharmaceutical) remedy for the common cold. And even if it doesn't help, at least you got a hot meal. |
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Post by badwolf on Jan 22, 2015 11:46:51 GMT -5
Chicken soup really does work, though. It's the onions. There's no "medical" (pharmaceutical) remedy for the common cold. And even if it doesn't help, at least you got a hot meal. Yep, that's all you can really do for a cold is keep eating healthy. Oh, and I always put some garlic in, too. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 22, 2015 14:52:08 GMT -5
And even if it doesn't help, at least you got a hot meal. Yep, that's all you can really do for a cold is keep eating healthy. Oh, and I always put some garlic in, too. Well, garlic and onions are bound to reduce the odds of your getting the common cold; everybody and their viruses will keep their distances! |
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Post by badwolf on Jan 22, 2015 15:03:12 GMT -5
Yep, that's all you can really do for a cold is keep eating healthy. Oh, and I always put some garlic in, too. Well, garlic and onions are bound to reduce the odds of your getting the common cold; everybody and their viruses will keep their distances! Not me, I love garlic!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 18:05:45 GMT -5
I'll go further, and say even if you are an adult and denying medical treatment to yourself was your choice, and you opted for faith healing instead, the faith healer is providing a medical service. A fraudulent one, and if it results in death I think the faith healer should be held for malpractice. By this logic, 6 million grannies will be jailed for prescibing chicken soup If they said their chicken soup can cure cancer, absolutely. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 18:07:51 GMT -5
I'll go further, and say even if you are an adult and denying medical treatment to yourself was your choice, and you opted for faith healing instead, the faith healer is providing a medical service. A fraudulent one, and if it results in death I think the faith healer should be held for malpractice. Can't argue with that. In fact, I'd go a bit further and say that if the faith healer was claiming to be able to treat/cure medical conditions, they should be required to have a medical license just like any other medical professional. If they don't, they should be prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license. We had a case a year or two ago around here where a woman was charging people cut-rates to put braces on their kids' teeth. The problem was, she wasn't qualified, licensed, or trained, and she was doing it on her living room couch. She contended that this was perfectly normal and accepted in the culture she was from. The authorities didn't accept this, especially in view of the damages and infections that she'd caused these kids with her shoddy work. Whether it's because of "religion" or "culture" or whatever, these types of laws were made to protect people from being harmed and taken advantage of. As an aside, one of the more unintentionally funny things I ever saw on TV was years ago when I lived down south. I was flipping through the channels and came across a church service show that featured a faith healer. What made it funny was that the "healer" and the "patient" apparently didn't have their stories straight, because one said the "condition" had been going on for a couple of years and the other said lifelong. When it came time to do the laying on of hands, the "healer" was apparently irritated because he smacked the guy extra hard on the forehead and laid him out like a fish. Sounds like Benny Hinn. Profits off the suffering of stupid people. All legal. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 22, 2015 18:27:40 GMT -5
If they said their chicken soup can cure cancer, absolutely. [/quote] Quote 5 million grannies "It couldn't hurt" While the state gestapo are rounding up the faith healers, next will be the fortune tellers and astrologists. Horoscopes will be banned from newspapers and the internet as well Seriously, let the foolish people make use of faith healers and the rest of that ilk. A fool and their money etc, etc Societies that are anti-religion are no paradise either. Witness the USSR in the past and Nazi Germany. Its not so much religion as an institution. Its mankind thats flawed |
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