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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 12:24:36 GMT -5
*My* understanding is that EVERETT actually gave Namor the more triangular head (unless there are drawings of him in those issues I haven't seen), and he was meant to be that way. As you can even see in the silver age his Namor is drawn with more of a triangular head than, say, Colan's Namor. But I am FAR from a Namor expert, so maybe Phil or another Sub-Mariner fan will chime in with more knowledge.  I'm no expert either. According to Roy Thomas, it was Carl Pfeufer, one of the artists who worked on Sub-Mariner during Everett's military service, who gradually and radically altered Namor's appearance. Here's the quote from Thomas: Thanks, Phil!! That is nice to know since Everett always gets credited for the strange, triangular head shape. |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Feb 27, 2015 17:07:22 GMT -5
Thanks, Phil!! That is nice to know since Everett always gets credited for the strange, triangular head shape. Well, and thanks to mwgallaher for bringing up the topic. I'd never really given it much thought beyond not caring for Pfeufer's distortions. It's quite interesting, though. There doesn't seem to be anything in Everett's early depictions of the character to suggest this evolution, and Schomburg's rendering of Namor on various covers during the first Everett era are very much in line with Everett's model, typified by my avatar. However, once Everett is absent, Schomburg's Namor reflects Pfeufer's changes, as does Syd Shores'. We must conclude that the company approved of Pfeufer's alterations, even as they became more and more exaggerated. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 19:16:39 GMT -5
Thanks, Phil!! That is nice to know since Everett always gets credited for the strange, triangular head shape. Well, and thanks to mwgallaher for bringing up the topic. I'd never really given it much thought beyond not caring for Pfeufer's distortions. It's quite interesting, though. There doesn't seem to be anything in Everett's early depictions of the character to suggest this evolution, and Schomburg's rendering of Namor on various covers during the first Everett era are very much in line with Everett's model, typified by my avatar. However, once Everett is absent, Schomburg's Namor reflects Pfeufer's changes, as does Syd Shores'. We must conclude that the company approved of Pfeufer's alterations, even as they became more and more exaggerated. That's more expert level knowledge on this matter than I have. |
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Post by berkley on Feb 27, 2015 19:43:49 GMT -5
I never realised that Namora was around so early in the Sub-Mariner's history. Looks like she was quite a prominent character too, appearing on a lot of covers at one point: Sub Mariner Vol. 1. I usually dislike derivative characters like this, but I've always kind of liked the idea of Namora and Namorita, except for the derivative names. Family members at least make some sense, for most characters. And, like the Sub-Mariner himself, her "costume" is just a swimsuit, so it doesn't look make her look too much like a female version of the original male character the way Supergirl, Ms. Marvel, etc tend to do. Was Namorita also an early addition to the Sub-Mariner family or was she a creation of the 60s or 70s? |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Feb 27, 2015 20:08:02 GMT -5
Was Namorita also an early addition to the Sub-Mariner family or was she a creation of the 60s or 70s? Namorita was a Bronze-Age clone of her infertile "mother" Namora, first appearing in Sub-Mariner #50 in 1972. She is among the last creations of Bill Everett. Namora was introduced in the late 40s, a period when superhero comics were on the decline. Female counterparts of the Timely line were introduced across the board during this period, with The Human Torch and Captain America eschewing their teen sidekicks in favor of Sun Girl and Golden Girl respectively. The Blonde Phantom debuts here as well. The bid ultimately failed to connect with readers and by 1950, the Timely stable of Golden Age heroes/heroines had largely been replaced by sci-fi, horror, and western anthology books. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 21:11:28 GMT -5
I love that in almost every single thing Everett drew with Namora and Namor in the same panel, Namora is giving Namor the stink-eye.
Every. Single. Panel.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Feb 27, 2015 21:30:24 GMT -5
I love that in almost every single thing Everett drew with Namora and Namor in the same panel, Namora is giving Namor the stink-eye. Every. Single. Panel. Hah! She did have a penchant for taking the wind out of his sails. I only know the broad strokes of her re-introduction in the Bronze-Age Sub-Mariner title. If you've read it, does Everett maintain that sort of passive-aggressive relationship or is she another tragic Marvel female? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 21:37:06 GMT -5
I am not sure what they were like in the bronze age, but Namora is constantly doing stupid things out of jealousy of Namor and Betty Dean's friendship. And then by the end, she's always admitting to Namor how she did such and such out of jealousy of Betty Dean. Which I find funny, because, seriously, who admits jealousy? hahahaha. It's funny and cute in an over honest way. |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Feb 27, 2015 22:00:37 GMT -5
I am not sure what they were like in the bronze age, but Namora is constantly doing stupid things out of jealousy of Namor and Betty Dean's friendship. And then by the end, she's always admitting to Namor how she did such and such out of jealousy of Betty Dean. Which I find funny, because, seriously, who admits jealousy? hahahaha. It's funny and cute in an over honest way. I see. I mentioned Agents of Atlas previously. I really think you would enjoy that book's take on the Atlantean cousins, especially Vol. 3, which resolves their dramatic tension in a very surprising and tender fashion. |
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Post by benday-dot on Feb 27, 2015 22:42:01 GMT -5
An interesting change could be seen to take place in Sub-Mariner Comics which concerns Namora.
Observers will note that there was a period in 1948 over several months when she seemed to supplant Sub-Mariner himself as the major cover feature on his own mag. This period corresponded to the advent and rise in popularity of the romance genre of comics (Young Romance #1 having debuted less than a year previous.) I always thought this new emphasis had much to do with comics attempt to attract a new young female readership.
Subby has always always been a favourite of mine, placing high on my list of most loved characters from Cei-U's Classic Comic Christmas several years back.
And I agree with Phil, Sub-Mariner's freakish triangle head was definitely the inspiration of Pfeufer. A look at his Sub-Mariner style and Everett's is pretty striking. I never really liked this heightened exaggeration, the polish and greater naturalism of Everett I thought seemed partly influenced by the look of Disney Animation studios at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 8:17:08 GMT -5
Look, stink-eye even as she is apologizing for (and admitting to) being jealous:  Huh. I thought I had more examples, but apparently I didn't get scans of those. I do have more examples (not scans) from a story called "Hidden World". She follows Namor around, and either accidentally slips into the center of the problem, or she aids the problem along out of jealousy. But 98% of the time, her involvement is out of jealousy. I find it funny. And topped with her constant stink-eye towards Namor just makes it hilarious to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 8:20:39 GMT -5
I am not sure what they were like in the bronze age, but Namora is constantly doing stupid things out of jealousy of Namor and Betty Dean's friendship. And then by the end, she's always admitting to Namor how she did such and such out of jealousy of Betty Dean. Which I find funny, because, seriously, who admits jealousy? hahahaha. It's funny and cute in an over honest way. I see. I mentioned Agents of Atlas previously. I really think you would enjoy that book's take on the Atlantean cousins, especially Vol. 3, which resolves their dramatic tension in a very surprising and tender fashion. Is this the correct volume? www.comicvine.com/agents-of-atlas/4050-25641/If not, do you have a link? |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Feb 28, 2015 12:12:07 GMT -5
I see. I mentioned Agents of Atlas previously. I really think you would enjoy that book's take on the Atlantean cousins, especially Vol. 3, which resolves their dramatic tension in a very surprising and tender fashion. Is this the correct volume? www.comicvine.com/agents-of-atlas/4050-25641/If not, do you have a link? That's the one. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Mar 2, 2015 18:56:56 GMT -5
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Post by benday-dot on Mar 2, 2015 20:16:09 GMT -5
I haven't read it Rob, but the fact that it was published in 1948 seems to support the train of thought I had above about that year being the year of Namora. Marvel really seemed to be pushing the character, trying to attract the new segment of female readers that was then emerging with the onset of romance comics. I do have a copy of Sub-mariner #27 from August 1948, the same month as Namora #1, and likewise cover featuring the titular character. It's strange that not a single story from the Namora run has ever seen subsequent reprint in a Marvel book, even with the draw of Everett art. Several of Bill's Sub-Mariner stories were added as backup fodder in various books in the 70's with Subby feature stories. |
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