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Post by crazyoldhermit on May 15, 2014 11:40:31 GMT -5
Maybe I'm a fool or whatever, but I love it whenever Stan gets serious and shows us that yes, he does know what the hell he's talking about. This is one of my favorite Stan moments because he's talking to young Todd McFarlane, who is doing a little storytelling demo, and Stan breaks down how Todd subconsciously made a perfect panel here at 45:07:
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 15, 2014 12:19:53 GMT -5
A great Stan Lee moment would have been grabbing the pen and stabbing Todd McFarlane's black heart out before he could single-handedly derail the comic book industry.
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Post by hondobrode on May 15, 2014 12:28:09 GMT -5
I had the privilege of meeting Stan a couple of years ago. Stood in line 8 hours in Dallas to meet him. Very glad I did. Had him autograph a poster for the early 70's he was giving a speech at Carnegie Hall. That's his actual autograph on there.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 15, 2014 12:43:07 GMT -5
I saw Stan at the first comic convention I attended in New York City.It was 1970 and I was a 16 year old Marvel fan.I was in the back of the room they were using for panel dicussions.Stan was in the back as well,waiting his turn to start the Marvel Comics discussion.There is no great moment,just the impression he made on an impressionable kid.There were just a few hundred fans in attendance,all pros were approachable and probably reveling in the fact that there were people who knew their names and liked what they did.You could get an autograph or a quick sketch for free or in exchange for a smile and a compliment. I remember Stan bounding for the stae when the MC called his name. He spoke with passion and energy about Marvel.You couldn't help get caught up with his enthusiasm.The term "motivational speaker' wasn't born yet but Stan was perfect at it.His humor was corny but sincere.The way he wrote his Marvel Bulletin pieces is the way he spoke.How could you not be a True Believer after listening to him?
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Post by crazyoldhermit on May 15, 2014 12:59:58 GMT -5
A great Stan Lee moment would have been grabbing the pen and stabbing Todd McFarlane's black heart out before he could single-handedly derail the comic book industry. By single-handedly derailing the comic book industry do you mean founding Image and finally giving the comic book industry a major publisher who will publish creators' material without robbing them of their rights?
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 15, 2014 13:11:00 GMT -5
A great Stan Lee moment would have been grabbing the pen and stabbing Todd McFarlane's black heart out before he could single-handedly derail the comic book industry. By single-handedly derailing the comic book industry do you mean founding Image and finally giving the comic book industry a major publisher who will publish creators' material without robbing them of their rights? Because we certainly didn't have Pacific, Comico, Eclipse, Fantagraph, Mirage, nor Dark Horse before that.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on May 15, 2014 13:24:35 GMT -5
By single-handedly derailing the comic book industry do you mean founding Image and finally giving the comic book industry a major publisher who will publish creators' material without robbing them of their rights? Because we certainly didn't have Pacific, Comico, Eclipse, Fantagraph, Mirage, nor Dark Horse before that. Pacific, Comico and Eclipse are defunct. Fantagraphics and Mirage are both minor players in terms of actually publishing creator owned series. Dark Horse focuses on licensed material as much as creator owned and its creator owned focus came after Image anyway. None of these publishers are major the way Image is. Image is a company that only publishes creator owned material and over the last five years especially they have been revolutionizing the industry. I'm not saying Image invented indie comics, but there is no company that caters to the indie creators like Image does.
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Post by shaxper on May 15, 2014 13:33:32 GMT -5
Pacific, Comico and Eclipse are defunct. But they made major contributions to the industry and launched several creators and their properties into notoriety. They didn't survive because consumers didn't support their efforts, but they provided a venue for creators to launch and benefit from their own properties. Image was able to become big and financially stable because it sold to the lowest common denominator. While the companies I mentioned tried to give a voice to talented creators looking to create uncompromising concepts unhindered by the editorial control of the Big Two, Image had few original ideas (Spawn and Savage Dragon being the chief exceptions) and generally thrived on exaggerated art style and cheap rip-offs of existing characters and properties. Fans supported it because it was easy, soulless stuff. These days, yes. But Todd McFarlane never would have expressed interest in I Kill Giants or Walking Dead. He was all about...well...image.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on May 15, 2014 13:50:43 GMT -5
But they made major contributions to the industry and launched several creators and their properties into notoriety. They didn't survive because consumers didn't support their efforts, but they provided a venue for creators to launch and benefit from their own properties. They didn't survive because they didn't give people what they wanted. It was too much too soon with no real market in place for it. This is why Image triumphed. In hindsight that was the best move they could have done. They used their star power and delivered what people liked to read, giving the company stability and a legitimate presence in the industry. When the fads wore out they were able to expand their business, opening their doors to all creators. I don't see that as a problem. He can like what he wants to. All that matters is that he (and his comrades) founded a company that is now the #1 home for creators looking to publish their own properties. The 90s stunk but is that such a bad thing if it resulted in an actual stable publishing house for indie creators? If Image had never moved on from the trend and had failed then we could slag on McFarlane all we want. But the man deserves credit for helping to reshape the industry in such a positive way.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 13:51:31 GMT -5
A great Stan Lee moment would have been grabbing the pen and stabbing Todd McFarlane's black heart out before he could single-handedly derail the comic book industry. Ummm. God knows I'm no McFarlane fan, but didn't he have help? Or was he the ultimate shot-caller when it came to Image (whose early history I'm blessedly unfamiliar with)?
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Post by shaxper on May 15, 2014 14:02:12 GMT -5
In hindsight that was the best move they could have done. They used their star power and delivered what people liked to read, giving the company stability and a legitimate presence in the industry. When the fads wore out they were able to expand their business, opening their doors to all creators. By catering to the lowest common denominator, they spear-headed the industry into an era where appearance and hype were all that mattered. Story-telling and original concepts were dead. It's why the industry went boom half a decade later, leaving the industry decimated -- a loss it's only beginning to recover from today. A great Stan Lee moment would have been grabbing the pen and stabbing Todd McFarlane's black heart out before he could single-handedly derail the comic book industry. Ummm. God knows I'm no McFarlane fan, but didn't he have help? Or was he the ultimate shot-caller when it came to Image (whose early history I'm blessedly unfamiliar with)? What McFarlane did to dismantle the comic industry: 1. Pushed for artists to gain creative control over titles at Marvel. He got his own Spiderman title and near limitless creative control over it when people like Romita had been begging for editorial freedom for years. Indirectly, this is what pushed Chris Claremont out of X-Men as Jim Lee soon followed his lead, demanding creative control over character and content because his drawings were cool. 2. Once Marvel had bent over backward, totally alienating its existing talent and compromising its visions across the board to cater to these folks, McFarlane led them all away to form Image ("F--- you, company who did everything for me!") and reaffirmed with a more powerful voice than ever that appearance and hype mattered more than substance. 3. Screwed a number of people out of their creative rights (Venom and Angela immediately come to mind) There's more that I can infer he did, but it's pretty much a matter of fact that the above three were done by him.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 14:14:02 GMT -5
And there is still a question of how well those Image books sold to actual customers. They sold amazingly well to retailers, many of whom have unopened cases of early issue still sitting around that they were unable to move to readers or speculators. They're stored next to those unopened cases of X-Men #1, X-Force #1, Spider-Man #1 unless of course they were pitched into dumpsters years ago when many of the shops went out of business because they had no liquid capital, mostly because all that inventory they bought that they thought would sell to readers didn't.
-M
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Post by shaxper on May 15, 2014 14:17:01 GMT -5
And there is still a question of how well those Image books sold to actual customers. They sold amazingly well to retailers, many of whom have unopened cases of early issue still sitting around that they were unable to move to readers or speculators. They're stored next to those unopened cases of X-Men #1, X-Force #1, Spider-Man #1 unless of course they were pitched into dumpsters years ago when many of the shops went out of business because they had no liquid capital, mostly because all that inventory they bought that they thought would sell to readers didn't. -M Speaking of which, the hype and variant covers surrounding Spidey #1 was the beginning of all of this. How much of that was directly due to McFarlane is (to the best of my knowledge) an unanswered question, but it would have been very consistent of him to have pitched the idea and gotten that ball rolling. To be fair, the true blame lies with the editors, critics, and (above all else) consumers who bought the snake oil Todd was selling, but I still blame him for introducing his poisons into the industry in the first place.
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Post by Rob Allen on May 15, 2014 14:30:06 GMT -5
I too saw Stan at New York cons in the 70s. Perhaps the best moment was the Marvel Con in '75, when Stan arrived with Jack Kirby and announced that Kirby was returning to Marvel. The place went nuts.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on May 15, 2014 14:41:51 GMT -5
In hindsight that was the best move they could have done. They used their star power and delivered what people liked to read, giving the company stability and a legitimate presence in the industry. When the fads wore out they were able to expand their business, opening their doors to all creators. By catering to the lowest common denominator, they spear-headed the industry into an era where appearance and hype were all that mattered. Story-telling and original concepts were dead. It's why the industry went boom half a decade later, leaving the industry decimated -- a loss it's only beginning to recover from today. People bought it. Blame them, not the artists. Superheroes have always been by and large pulpy trash, McFarlane and co just changed the form it took. McFarlane can't be faulted for being a success. 1. So it's OK if John Romita wants freedom but not okay for McFarlane? And McFarlane is at fault because he was the guy Marvel listened to? 2. McFarlane took advantage of an opportunity and his "F--- You" to Marvel was hardly undeserved. Artists finally had some leverage and could fight for their rights. Marvel didn't give in so they all left and Marvel's stock dropped by three bucks. McFarlane stood up, took a stand and acompany that had been historically exploitative of artists finally got a spanking. The actual content of the books is irrelevant, since it's a matter of taste and more "blame" lies with the Marvel editorial and consumers than it does with the artist. 3. I've heard about the Angela case but I'm not familiar with what he did for Venom. Mind explaining?
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