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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 15, 2014 9:59:48 GMT -5
Well, the death has to be good, and in the case of the Wasp it wasn't. Blaming the common element of bad stories isn't exactly fair. It's not the element of death that creates bad stories, it's bad writing. Feeling the loss of Jean Grey (for example) ultimately isn't as important to me as eventually getting new stories with her. And I'm positive the death of Captain America and Ultimate Peter Parker will be just as fondly remembered 20 years from now as the ones you cited. After all, Jean came back from the death of Phoenix That she did, and I was so frickin' mad that I quite comics for a year. All comics. I felt like my emotional investment in that character had been manipulated in a very crass way, and that if it happened with one title it could happen with all of them. It took Alan Moore's later Swamp Thing stories to bring me back to reading comics, and then again only tentatively with just a few titles. (Man, how I regretted it years later, when I had to hunt down back issues of my interrupted Conan runs!) You make a good point about bad writing creating bad stories, but I'd argue that using a character's death is a dangerous thing. It can easily distract us from the fact that a particular story doesn't have much to offer beside it. Like sugar in a lot of snacks, it's the one thing someone notices; it's only after the sugar buzz that we realize there was little good in there. I find it's particularly true when the death occurs in some event book. (There are of course no absolutes; although the death of Xavier in AvX was not necessary to the plot and that the series itself wasn't particularly good, the aftermath of that death was actually pretty interesting).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 10:05:31 GMT -5
I will admit killing Xavier again, even I rolled my eyes at that one. But they have gotten some good mileage out of the repercussions this time
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
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Post by Confessor on Jul 15, 2014 12:04:14 GMT -5
I've never been moved to tears by any comic book...or any prose book either for that matter. I was talking about this with my girlfriend a few weeks back. She's a big reader and it's not uncommon for her to be moved to tears by something she's reading, but for some reason, words on a page don't ever do that to me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not some hard-hearted SOB with no feelings...I frequently get moisten-eyed over movies or while listening to music, and on occasion music has been so powerful and overwhelming to me that it's properly made me blub, but comics never quite push me to that point. Having said that, I do find certain comic books to be very, very moving: Maus, "The Nearness of You" from Astro City #1/2, Spider-Man: Blue, Laika, bits of Charley's War and both Gwen Stacy's and Phil Sheldon's deaths as depicted in Marvels and Marvels: Eye of the Camera to mention just a few.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 15, 2014 15:30:29 GMT -5
Waid's Daredevil is a lot better if you recognize he has zero understanding of criminal law and just go with the flow.
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 15, 2014 16:41:52 GMT -5
Wasp's death was particularly stunty, though I understand some interesting stuff was done later by Dan Slott with Hank Pym as a result. But the death itself was as stunty as it gets - the original outline for the issue had Hercules dying instead. But when the "Incredible Hercules" series was pitched, they changed their minds and slotted in Wasp instead. It literally didn't matter who died in the story, just that some mid-level superhero was killed so they could hype it.
So bad.
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Post by thecolortechnic on Jul 15, 2014 18:43:01 GMT -5
I Kill Giants came close.
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Post by comicscube on Jul 16, 2014 21:39:57 GMT -5
Half of the Marvel Universe's Earth's population has been dead at least once. There's jumping the shark, and then there's slapping sunglasses on the shark, giving it a name, and making it a recurring character.
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Post by Dizzy D on Jul 17, 2014 3:21:48 GMT -5
Waid's Daredevil is a lot better if you recognize he has zero understanding of criminal law and just go with the flow. Or the more general Any comic is a lot better if you recognize that comic writers have zero understanding of law/science/mathematics/medicine/history/other languages and just go with the flow.
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Post by travishedgecoke on Jul 17, 2014 7:21:50 GMT -5
Half of the Marvel Universe's Earth's population has been dead at least once. There's jumping the shark, and then there's slapping sunglasses on the shark, giving it a name, and making it a recurring character. Did you have that handy, or did you go looking for that? That's fantastic. And very Poochy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 7:34:42 GMT -5
Daredevil's better when you ignore that radioactive waste doesn't give blind people the ability to jump off roofs.
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Post by travishedgecoke on Jul 17, 2014 7:59:40 GMT -5
Daredevil's better when you ignore that radioactive waste doesn't give blind people the ability to jump off roofs. Next you'll tell me I won't become a buff sexy science ninja if my parents die and I study very very hard and have a butler. Why is everything lies?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 8:16:52 GMT -5
Stan Lee must be turning over in his grave
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jul 17, 2014 10:20:56 GMT -5
Comics that make me want to cry? Ones priced at $7.99 (or more)
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Post by comicscube on Jul 17, 2014 10:32:08 GMT -5
Did you have that handy, or did you go looking for that? That's fantastic. And very Poochy. When Maui and Sons isn't on the screen, everyone should be asking, where's Maui and Sons? (The brand was relatively big when I was a kid, is all I remember.)
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Post by comicscube on Jul 17, 2014 10:42:00 GMT -5
Daredevil's better when you ignore that radioactive waste doesn't give blind people the ability to jump off roofs. Next you'll tell me I won't become a buff sexy science ninja if my parents die and I study very very hard and have a butler. Why is everything lies? Wait, you mean to tell me if a radioactive spider bites me, I might not get superpowers, and that maybe the whole science behind the engineering of the webshooters in the Marvel handbooks is... made up?
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