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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 19:37:05 GMT -5
high-grade books will keep their values but mid and lower grade books will get cheaper and cheaper . That's why my preference is for high grade books. If I do choose to sell them, those are more likely to maintain a favourable rate of return. I've got one daughter so far, ideally I'd like to pass on my hoard to her and any siblings which may come along. However, I'd also teach them how to sell them just in case that becomes an option too. Some of my best silver-age buys came from one collector who owned his books since 1965 (he would have owned them 45 years until I came along). He was sad to part with his collection, but given the givens, that was his best option. He was stunned to know a woman bought 80+ of his books and we exchanged messages on eBay for almost 2 weeks. I assured him his books would be coming to a great new home. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 29, 2014 19:47:15 GMT -5
The trend RIGHT NOW is for higher grade books to keep gaining value over lower condition books, but this is a recent trend, and there's no particular reason to be sure it will continue. I'd personally rather not bank on that, especially since I personally don't see the intrinsic value in a pristine 9.8 over a solid 6.0.
In my mind, a first appearance is a first appearance, so long as all the pages are attached, everything is readable (including a cover that has retained most of its color), and no significant restoration has been done.
But everyone is entitled to their opinions, as well as their speculations about the market.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 19:54:43 GMT -5
Or a 9.8 over a 9.6, where the pricetag can still be an insane amount of difference when the actual difference in grade is so minute a resub could land you in one spot or the other at any moment. At least the difference between a 9.0 and a 6.0 is visible.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 29, 2014 20:21:37 GMT -5
The trend RIGHT NOW is for higher grade books to keep gaining value over lower condition books, but this is a recent trend, and there's no particular reason to be sure it will continue. I'd personally rather not bank on that, especially since I personally don't see the intrinsic value in a pristine 9.8 over a solid 6.0. In my mind, a first appearance is a first appearance, so long as all the pages are attached, everything is readable (including a cover that has retained most of its color), and no significant restoration has been done. But everyone is entitled to their opinions, as well as their speculations about the market. Shax, the type of collector who had bought low grade books for their collection in the past is the type of collector who will abandom the print format in favor of collections or digital formats.They simply just wanted the book as cheap as possible . Those type of collectors will only grow as any new ,younger collectors who enter the market are eschewing the print format totally for all types genres. And the spread of high grade vs low grade widening is not a recent trend at all.I'm putting on my old-timer collector's hat on to tell you this but back in the 70s the difference between a near mint book to a fine book was at most double the price.And usually not that far apart.In the early/mid 80s overstreet revised that to 3 to 4 times.I'm looking at an Overstreet Guide from 5 years ago.I see FF#1 and near mint is 10x fine.Xmen # 94 is 6X. Showcase #4 is 10.7X Conan #1 is 6.7x So it seems the older the book,the larger the spread.And as the years went by the spread grew wider across the board.This is only logical.As more old comics hit the market from their former baby-boomer owners,only a very small portion will be high-grade and the market will be awash in books in general fine condition I was never a high-grade snob so this is not coming from someone with that type of prejudice.Never slabbed a book and had bought plenty of vg-f back issues.But it just seems logical that high-grade books will get increasingly rarer as a percent of whats available and the number of collectors of print format will-sorry to say-decrease from how many there used to be Thats why I conclude high grade keeps it s value and mid/lower will deflate.Just look at Ebay now.You can get TONS of midlevel grade books from the 70s cheaper than current comic prices |
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Post by shaxper on May 29, 2014 20:41:08 GMT -5
Shax, the type of collector who had bought low grade books for their collection in the past is the type of collector who will abandom the print format in favor of collections or digital formats. And yet I'M that type of collector. When I grew up in the late '80s / early '90s mine and all my friends' dreams (beyond telling Rogue, "It's okay. You can kiss ME") was to one day own a Showcase #22, Amazing Fantasy #15, or (dare I say it) a Detective Comics #27. The dream was never to own them in a specific condition -- just to OWN them. A lot of my preferences have changed since then, but not my collecting desires. Owning the original is all I really want, and, in fact, I prefer lower grade so that I can actually pull out and touch the book without worry. I READ all of my key issues. Otherwise, it's like collecting fine wine without ever uncorking a bottle to actually savor. Inevitability, there's a certain level of acceptable condition below which the prize isn't really enjoyable, but for me, it just means a copy I can read without having my attention immediately drawn to its flaws. Sometimes, even a G- is acceptable to me in this regard. But there's a kinesthetic charm, as well as a sense of being part of history. Some of us watch the history channel, and some of us actually get up and go to Gettysburg. But it's only in the past fifteen years that the difference between a 9.2 and 9.8 suddenly became such a canyon of difference to the average collector. That's all the influence of CGC. While the grading scale existed before them it never actually mattered to your casual buyer. Such a demand may prove a bubble in danger of bursting. Or it may not. Who can know? And, by the way, nearly ALL the mid-grade key issues I bought when I first started seriously buying up keys about ten years ago have now tripled in value. Though they may not be rising as fast as high grade copies, they're doing fine as investments. You're right that the supply will inevitably continue to fall, but who knows what will happen to the demand? There have got to be collectors out there who enjoy owning the ACTUAL book that would rather have eight key issues in VG+ than one in NM. Eventually, it just seems to me that a financially strapped collector is likely to come to this realization, whether it takes one year or ten. But, before this reverts to the old debate we waged endlessly at the old forum without anyone ever actually changing anyone's mind, let me just say that I see your point and concede it as a possibility, but I don't accept it as an inevitability, nor even necessarily the most likely outcome. After all, if anyone could predict the market with complete accuracy, the market would be broken. There's a fun paradox for you all  |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 29, 2014 20:53:07 GMT -5
Shax, I hope I'm wrong.Its too late for me since my old collection is sitting somewhere in some stranger's home 3000 miles away but it would put a big smile on my face if there was a huge epiphany amongst people that comics are the greatest storytelling format ever devised and millions of folks became collectors.
But you and I and most folks here are from a different generation. And I see how 95% of younger folks (below 20 years old) abandoned vinyl or CD for digital music.They're not gonna collect old,smelly paper but will be happy to read things on their e-devices
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Post by shaxper on May 29, 2014 20:55:53 GMT -5
Shax, I hope I'm wrong.Its too late for me since my old collection is sitting somewhere in some stranger's home 3000 miles away but it would put a big smile on my face if there was a huge epiphany amongst people that comics are the greatest storytelling format ever devised and millions of folks became collectors. But you and I and most folks here are from a different generation. And I see how 95% of younger folks (below 20 years old) abandoned vinyl or CD for digital music.They're not gonna collect old,smelly paper but will be happy to read things on their e-devices And yet vinyl has made a massive comeback in the last five years, Ish. Tons of new shops selling vintage pressings, as well as a myriad of new reissues of classic vinyl, and it's a younger generation buying it all who has finally come to believe that it's a superior audio experience. Keep that hope alive. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 29, 2014 21:00:36 GMT -5
Shax, I hope I'm wrong.Its too late for me since my old collection is sitting somewhere in some stranger's home 3000 miles away but it would put a big smile on my face if there was a huge epiphany amongst people that comics are the greatest storytelling format ever devised and millions of folks became collectors. But you and I and most folks here are from a different generation. And I see how 95% of younger folks (below 20 years old) abandoned vinyl or CD for digital music.They're not gonna collect old,smelly paper but will be happy to read things on their e-devices And yet vinyl has made a massive comeback in the last five years, Ish. Tons of new shops selling vintage pressings, as well as a myriad of new reissues of classic vinyl, and it's a younger generation buying it all who has finally come to believe that it's a superior audio experience. Keep that hope alive. Nothing can ever replace the thrill and feel of holding a comic. But the younger generation will never know that feeling because digital is taking over. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 29, 2014 21:03:39 GMT -5
Shax, I hope I'm wrong.Its too late for me since my old collection is sitting somewhere in some stranger's home 3000 miles away but it would put a big smile on my face if there was a huge epiphany amongst people that comics are the greatest storytelling format ever devised and millions of folks became collectors. But you and I and most folks here are from a different generation. And I see how 95% of younger folks (below 20 years old) abandoned vinyl or CD for digital music.They're not gonna collect old,smelly paper but will be happy to read things on their e-devices And yet vinyl has made a massive comeback in the last five years, Ish. Tons of new shops selling vintage pressings, as well as a myriad of new reissues of classic vinyl, and it's a younger generation buying it all who has finally come to believe that it's a superior audio experience. Keep that hope alive. That is true,but the rise in vinyl came at the expense of CD. Overall physical music continues to decline. Here's a link from the Huff Post about it.If anything changed since then I'd love to know www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/vinyl-record-sales_n_3053364.html |
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Post by shaxper on May 29, 2014 21:04:45 GMT -5
Nothing can ever replace the thrill and feel of holding a comic. But the younger generation will never know that feeling because digital is taking over. That's a common fear, but consider the following: 1. Digital comics have NOT sold as well as the Big Two had anticipated. My LCS owners all proclaim this with pride. 2. Cheaper digital comics may actually attract MORE buyers of physical back issues in the long run. If digital is cheaper and easier to obtain, it stands to reason that it will attract a wider audience of readers, and some of those readers may ultimately choose to seek out the original print copies of key issues. This is comparable to people I know who generally read their books digitally but still savor the thrill of collecting first editions. The two behaviors are not mutually exclusive. Yes, I can see this hurting the value of run fillers. I wouldn't be surprised is unremarkable Silver and Bronze age issues of famous runs drop in value over time, but not the key issues. Buying your comics in a more convenient and cost-effective format doesn't necessarily make you disinterested in print when it comes to the issues that really matter to you. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 21:09:23 GMT -5
I'm also the type of collector who prefers low grade, but of course I have a limit. I don't want a comic that is going to fall apart if I try to read it. But I'm also as happy as can be with my acquisition of a super cheap copy of Eerie #2. Same with Fantasy Quarterly #1. I have had a couple low grade keys in the past that I have sold off, not because I don't like low grade keys, but because I got rid of all my super hero comics.
I am likely to abandon floppies for digital and premium hardcovers eventually, but when low grades are cheaper than legal digital on common issues, I'm buying low grades. I suspect a lot of people will agree. And low grade keys, anyone who can't afford the high grade keys but wants a first appearance, first issue, or whatever, they'll be interested. We can't all afford 9.8's, and the 4.0's aren't garbage.
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Post by shaxper on May 29, 2014 21:09:42 GMT -5
Well, first, record sales have exploded since this article was written but, secondly, The Huff has greatly oversimplified things by portraying a duality between vinyl and CD, ignoring the more ubiquitous presence of MP3s and MP4s. Essentially, people abandon CDs for the convenience of electronic audio and then buy vinyl copies of the albums they appreciate most and truly want to experience. Granted, my information is subjective and comes only from myself and people I know, but I've spoken with MANY new vinyl enthusiasts and none have decided to go 100% vinyl with their music -- they buy the albums that matter, just as readers of digital comics may go out and buy the print issues that matter in order to savor the heightened experience, but also realizing it's too costly and impractical to do this with ALL of their comics. EDIT: CDs are the in-between medium -- less quality than a record and moreso than an MP3, but more convenient than a record and less convenient than an MP3. Thus, instead of relying on a format that only kind of sort of meets its users needs, people have abandoned CDs to enjoy a combination of the convenience of MP3s and the superior quality of records at the same time. Perhaps the appropriate comic book analogy is the trade paperback -- less quality than the floppy original and moreso than the digital copy, but more convenient than the floppy original and less so than the digital copy. Perhaps we'll see the decline of the trade in favor of fans who rely primarily on digital comics but seek out floppy originals of key issues that they truly want to own. One possible future glimpsed by Uatu  |
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Post by Fan of Bronze on May 29, 2014 21:10:12 GMT -5
Shax, the type of collector who had bought low grade books for their collection in the past is the type of collector who will abandom the print format in favor of collections or digital formats.They simply just wanted the book as cheap as possible . Those type of collectors will only grow as any new ,younger collectors who enter the market are eschewing the print format totally for all types genres. ...snip...I might be an exception to your rule. I do buy low-grade readers, especially when I'm trying to put together a readable run, but I have no interest in collecting digital comics. The resolution of the best digital reading devices now available cannot hold a candle to the full-color resolution achievable with the 500-year-old technology of print. I should say that my low-grade readers are not the last copies of specific issues I intend to ever buy, but as it can take years sometimes to locate the right copy at the right price, low-grade readers offer a quick fix when I just want to read a long run of issues without interruption. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 21:15:32 GMT -5
1. Digital comics have NOT sold as well as the Big Two had anticipated. My LCS owners all proclaim this with pride. The big two painted themselves into a speculators hole they will have to overhaul their entire business model to get out of. They lose market share annually because of this. Oh, their floppies still sit comfortably in the top 200, but their graphic novels, trade paperbacks, their digital content, all less so when compared to other publishers. They had to discontinue their mags long ago. Their top selling titles struggle to break 100k despite overall sales in the industry on a steady rise. Nobody is going to buy a digital comic twice because one of them is a Campbell variant, and nobody is going to buy two, ten, or a crate of digital copies because so and so dies and it will be worth a lot of money. I have no doubt we will eventually see digital as the default format, the way floppies once were. While I believe floppies will exist as long as paper exists, I wonder if the monthly 22 page floppy can last another two decades, I'm thinking probably not. When floppies become a rarity and digital is the norm, I expect Marvel and DC to lose a considerable amount of the marketshare. No more variants, no more tying up the LCS budget with 52 titles, making them unable to order titles from smaller publishers, no more buying power allowing them better rates on materials, talent, distribution, ect. It will all cost the same for everybody, who will all have equal access to the marketplace, and nobody can safely count on the collector who buys one to read and one to keep mint in a bag. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 29, 2014 21:25:45 GMT -5
We should also remember that all of us on this website are not,to put it midly,typical of the general public.We have much higher taste and esthetics. So I wouldn't use us as an example of there being a resurgence in physical accumulation of entertainment media among the general public
E-devices will get better and better and cheaper and cheaper.Thats the trend in electronics for the last 100 years.I'm in NYC and take the train to work every day.I'm in a subway car with 100 people twice a day.10 years ago,half would be listening to music,the other half reading a newspaper ,mag or book.Today? Maybe 10 are reading something physical,most likely less.I see this every day,coming and going. I walk down the street and most people are like Zombies staring at their e-devices or on their cellphones.In the last 10 years there has been a MASSIVE change in the city on how relate to their devices.I don't think middle America is that much behind and trends like these only gather momentum |
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