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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Feb 1, 2015 16:19:20 GMT -5
That's a fair question, and it is true that special series or big events like CoIE at DC and Secret Wars at Marvel were big deals on the day. While the changes brought about by SW were kind of meh and eventually transitory, DC did change some things... but very few for the better, IMO. And in the process made its shared universe very complicated (far more than it had been pre-crisis) because some changes were too crastic and were later undone in unbelievable ways (Hawkman? Lord, what a mess). But the very success of these first "events" begat increasingly irrelevant attempts at generating the same enthusiasm. CoIE might have been a big thing (even if I didn't particularly cared for it), but Legends? Millenium? War of the gods? Zero Hour? Ultimate Crisis everywhere at the same time? As for Marvel, if Infinity Gauntlet is (somewhat oddly) remembered fondly by many, how many real fans of World War Hulk, Infinity, Fear Itself or Sins Past are there? These editorially-mandated huge crossovers might have nice art and lots of explosions, they usually bring little in tems of dramatic novelty or character development. (I had hopes for Secret Invasion, which openened the door for the return of many characters imprudently killed in the past, but it turned out to be mostly Avengers fighting dinosaurs). Big events have a clear purpose: to get obsessive fans to buy as many event-related comics as possible. Fair enough, these companies are into making money. However, I regret that once upon a time, even big companies like Marvel and DC tried to generate money by making their books more interesting than those of the competition; right now, it looks as if the Big Ones decided that their customers were all suffering from attention deficit disorder, and " interesting" was synonymous with "lots of explosions, lots of death, lots of cheap angst, and no need to develop anything". With the added annoyance of having comics tied ever more tightly to their own derived products like movies and TV series, because that's what gets the most exposure and is thought (I suppose) to be what brings customers to the comics shop. Which I seriously doubt. Reading the editorial staff at Marvel talk abput their stuff, I feel very, very far from the good-natured and clearly tongue-in-cheek bombast of Stan Lee... I feel like I'm reading the words of politicians, carefully vetted by some marketing agency. I asked about CoIE because I am currently reading it, and am led to believe that it brought changes to DC for a good while. And I agree with you on the rest, especially your last sentence.  That is the reality of business for them now though, isn't it?. They are in an entertainment media and need to try for the best spin on their news to compete against games, movies, and tv, let alone against DC, Image or Dark Horse. How are they operating any differently than other media ? The times have changed in the 40 plus years since Stans Soapbox made us feel part of another family as kids. its like trying to compare your own home lives to those in Happy Days. "When I was a kid we used to play on the street all day till dark"...well how many parents would let that happen now? Things change and evolve. To be fair I dont recall any of the "axel-in-charge" (or the like) columns being anything other than effusive about their creators, and would apply that to DC with Didio and Lee. If anything they seem to have a worse reputation considering the way people like George Perez were treated when he quit Superman a couple of years back. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Feb 1, 2015 16:23:39 GMT -5
Having read this week's Axel in charge column, I can't help but comparing the two following marketing approaches. On the one hand, I am invited to get all excited about a vast company crossover that will (according to the publisher's own hype) end all the titles I might care about and replace them with several titles with the words "battleworld" and "war zones" it them. Inflated rhetoric makes it sound like this event will be the best thing ever, even if short- term memory confirms that the same arguments are pretty much used every other month to describe some new marketing ploy. More death! More destruction! More things that will never be the same again until they are! On the other hand, Word of mouth invites me to buy the story of a family where mom has wings and dad has horns, simply because it's a damn fine example of great comics. Make mine Image. Easily. *edit* : I have no illusion, of course, about which company will make the most money. Bummer. For the last couple of years I have thought Image provided the most consistent and entertaining comics available. Series like Saga, Manhattan Projects, and East of West have delivered month after month in a way the big two have failed to do. ...and I'm damn glad Im along for the ride. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Feb 1, 2015 16:55:35 GMT -5
But didn't events like Crisis on Infinite Earths really actually make an honest change for the DCU? Granted, there was no internet back in 1985, but how heavily was that event advertised? Were big events different back then? And by different, I mean, the impact it had on the actual books and universes. I thought that in principle the Crisis idea was great. 50 years of confusion and convolution were theoretically wiped and creators given a new(ish) slate to work with. DC need to be applauded for having the fortitude to do this, though to be fair the way their sales were heading they probably didnt have a choice. Events like this were advertised heavily in-house, and were generally self-contained until they realised they could tie-in multiple titles and drive up sales on struggling books because of anal-retentive collectors(like I was). The worst examples of this are X-Men events in the 80s and 90s. The advantage Crisis had over Secret Wars is that it stuck (essentially, for like 25 years, the equivalent of their previous Earth One silver age revival), it wasnt just another meaningless fistfight(SW), ...and George Perez. People talked in awe of the job he did here for years, the amount of characters he kept straight etc and I believe that it helped make the series legendary. In comparison what real effect did Secret Wars have on any other title other than introducing the Black Spidey/Venom suit (for which the series should forever be sent to the Phantom Zone, never to return). The others are right about subsequent "events" being of little consequence, with those at DC maybe being a little more effective up until Civil War or so. From this point I think its odd to argue that they didnt work, when they obviously did, sales on Civil War were huge compared to anything else in the industry. Despite what your personal feelings are about a book, if a gazillion people buy it, it was a success. I'll never read Shades of Grey, but the book was very successful. Do my personal feelings change any of that? Nope. I like Civil War, in fact am in awe that it has never happened before, and often. Those macho posturers in their militaristic groups are ticking bombs with short fuses IMHO and really, in extreme situations like this, of course people will say or do things beyond their normal ways. In these politically divisive situations you don't always get everything exactly how you would like. Think about a politically sensitive thing like gun control, you may choose to follow your political leaders, or your conscience, or let one have sway over the other. I just find the argument usually levelled at Bendis, that character xx isn't him/herself, to be weak. I think the reality is someone got pissy because they didnt like their favourite hero getting hurt, and they are going to have a tantrum...now. While I may stick up for(the later)them in general, I dont like every event, I disliked Axis for example, and most are just meh for me, but I treat it like any run on a book I like, love some, hate some, wheres the next one. |
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Post by earl on Feb 2, 2015 21:37:19 GMT -5
At least around the Comic store I shopped at and worked at in the late 80s, Crisis changed the game for DC. Before the reboot, only Teen Titans and Legion sold in the top 20-25 books. Batman sold worse than any of the main Marvel comics. Superman, Wonder Woman and JLA barely sold anything. To me, I think it was more than just Crisis, Dick Giordano had DC trying all sorts of stuff and he was pretty smart about who they hired as there was a ton of talent working in the indies and across the pond. That influx of talent changed American comics. DC got good as they had quite a bit of the talent working for them that made early 80s Marvel really cook too. I'd have to say the mid to late 80s was one of DC's best periods in the company history.
While there was quite a few super hero comics that were pretty good early in the 2000s, I think DC and Marvel have gone pretty cold to me. I don't doubt some are worth reading and but for the most part I will wait it out and see what settles out as a good run and read it on the back end in trades or back issues. I also just realize I'd rather read the older super hero books and just follow whatever other comics are out there, as for the first time in a long time there is starting to be some variety in American mainstream comics.
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Post by Action Ace on Feb 3, 2015 0:22:42 GMT -5
For February 4, 2015
DC COMICS
Action Comics #39
Aquaman and the Others #10
Batman '66 #19
Detective Comics #39
Earth 2 #31
Earth 2 World's End #18
Flash: Season Zero #5
Grayson #7
Green Lantern #39
Superman #38
Superman: Earth One Volume 3
DYNAMITE
King: Jungle Jim #1
MARVEL
Star Wars #2
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Post by dupersuper on Feb 3, 2015 1:54:17 GMT -5
But didn't events like Crisis on Infinite Earths really actually make an honest change for the DCU? Granted, there was no internet back in 1985, but how heavily was that event advertised? Were big events different back then? And by different, I mean, the impact it had on the actual books and universes. It did, and yeah nearly every issue I have from around then has an ad for the the coming crisis. I think the difference between then and now is the frequency of events we have now, Crisis was the first and there wasn't another big event until like 1992's Death of Superman or 1994's Zero Hour. There were a few in between then like Legends, Millennium and Cosmic Odyssey but nothing as huge as Crisis. Meanwhile since 1994's Zero Hour there has been some huge event nearly every year: Underworld Unleashed 1995, DC Vs Marvel 1996, Genesis 1997, DC One Million 1998, Our Worlds at War 2001, Identity Crisis 2004, Countdown to Infinite Crisis and Infinite Crisis 2005, 52 and One Year Later 2006, Countdown to Final Crisis 2007, Final Crisis 2008, Blackest Night 2009, Brightest Day and Return of Bruce Wayne 2010, Flashpoint 2011, Forever Evil 2013. With that many events you just get burnt out and thy stop being special. Um, between Crisis and Death of Superman there were Legends, Millennium, Cosmic Odyssey, Invasion, Panic in the Sky, War of the Gods, Armageddon 2001, Breakdowns and Eclipso: The Darkness Within. Between Death of Superman and Zero Hour we had Knighfall/Quest, Emerald Twilight and Bloodlines. There were also Judgement Day, Sins of Youth, Last Laugh... |
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Post by dupersuper on Feb 3, 2015 2:16:57 GMT -5
ACTION COMICS #39
EARTH 2 #31
EARTH 2 WORLDS END #18
FLASH SEASON ZERO #5
INJUSTICE GODS AMONG US YEAR THREE #8
FUTURES END #40
SUPERMAN #38
SUPERMAN EARTH ONE VOL 03
AVENGERS #41
ANT-MAN PRELUDE #1
MIRACLEMAN #15
DJANGO/ZORRO #3
trade waiting
ELFQUEST, GOON, HELLBOY/BPRD, AMERICAN VAMPIRE, BATMAN 66, BATMAN ETERNAL, HINTERKIND, INVISIBLES, EAST OF WEST, GOD HATES ASTRONAUTS, SAGA, SOUTHERN BASTARDS, HAWKEYE, MS. MARVEL, UNBEATABLE SQUIRREL GIRL, WOODS
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 2:24:22 GMT -5
Angela Asgard's Assassin #3
Star Wars #2
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 3, 2015 6:28:28 GMT -5
I'm glad to see a Finder comic on the shelf again! (And in colour? That may take some getting used to!)
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Post by DubipR on Feb 3, 2015 10:22:32 GMT -5
- Stray Bullets: Sunshine & Roses #1
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 10:27:08 GMT -5
I finished Crisis on Infinite Earths. I think it killed me.
What was that, a 12 issue monster event?
I read that in two days. I feel drained.
And I think it's because, if it was a 12 issue event, that probably means it was spread out over a year (or did they double ship it back in the day?). THAT was a LOT of story.
And I found myself getting irritated as HELL that the Anti-Monitor would NOT die, and that we were made to believe, SEVERAL TIMES, that everything had ended and everyone could go back to their lives and not remember a single thing that went wrong. Only those who fought in battle could remember everything. Then the villains who fought could not remember anything.
I'm just tired now.
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Post by Dizzy D on Feb 3, 2015 10:45:41 GMT -5
Miracleman and Squirrel Girl for me this week. Maybe Rat God from Dark Horse (Corben doing Lovecraftian Horror).
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Post by thwhtguardian on Feb 3, 2015 11:38:54 GMT -5
It did, and yeah nearly every issue I have from around then has an ad for the the coming crisis. I think the difference between then and now is the frequency of events we have now, Crisis was the first and there wasn't another big event until like 1992's Death of Superman or 1994's Zero Hour. There were a few in between then like Legends, Millennium and Cosmic Odyssey but nothing as huge as Crisis. Meanwhile since 1994's Zero Hour there has been some huge event nearly every year: Underworld Unleashed 1995, DC Vs Marvel 1996, Genesis 1997, DC One Million 1998, Our Worlds at War 2001, Identity Crisis 2004, Countdown to Infinite Crisis and Infinite Crisis 2005, 52 and One Year Later 2006, Countdown to Final Crisis 2007, Final Crisis 2008, Blackest Night 2009, Brightest Day and Return of Bruce Wayne 2010, Flashpoint 2011, Forever Evil 2013. With that many events you just get burnt out and thy stop being special. Um, between Crisis and Death of Superman there were Legends, Millennium, Cosmic Odyssey, Invasion, Panic in the Sky, War of the Gods, Armageddon 2001, Breakdowns and Eclipso: The Darkness Within. Between Death of Superman and Zero Hour we had Knighfall/Quest, Emerald Twilight and Bloodlines. There were also Judgement Day, Sins of Youth, Last Laugh... I mentioned several of those but none of them really matched the scope of Crisis |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Feb 3, 2015 12:32:35 GMT -5
(Psylocke's development, before they turned her into a ninja) You had me with this. You could have only said this, and I would be thrilled that someone else actually agrees with me. I haven't read a TON of Betsy since they turned in her into a ninja, but what little I have read makes me practically cry for Betsy Braddock that once was.  The whole "they turned her into a ninja" thing is an example of why it's hard to convince non-comics readers that comics aren't all ridiculous garbage. |
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Post by The Cheat on Feb 3, 2015 18:17:19 GMT -5
- Stray Bullets: Sunshine & Roses #1 Finally gotten around to reading Stray Bullets from the beginning, on issue 39 now and loving it. Can't wait to start the recent stuff, does it hold up to the original series? |
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