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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2014 13:17:08 GMT -5
I'd actually take a reboot at this point, if it meant having an Marvel Universe again, instead of the Remender-verse, the Hickman-verse, the Bendis-verse, the other Bendis-verse, etc. I think a re-boot could be done more like Marvel Ultimate than Crisis, and would work really nicely... you don't have to re-hash the old stories, after all. If they do reboot it, it would be The Architects who laid the foundation of the "new" MU-Remender, Hickman, Bendis etc. the very guys you say you don't want establishing their universes...so I wouldn't hold your breath for something vastly different than what you are glimpsing in their books currently, probably more of that amplified without being held back by what was established in the traditional MU. Alonso has been on record several times as saying Marvel doesn't do reboot, it refreshes things from time to time...it's what makes Marvel different than DC. Since Marvel still outsells DC linewide except for September DC events, I don't expect to see a reboot. An event that teases one, walks the line of one, that changes certain things, certainly, but at the end of the day I expect them to keep enough intact to say-hey see we didn't reboot, Marvel doesn't do that...it's the whole illusion of change thing really. -M |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 4, 2014 13:19:25 GMT -5
I really hope that they aren't planning to reboot the Marvel U. For all its flaws, the one aspect of the Marvel Universe that appeals to me over the DC universe is its established history. I'm sure there are those who would argue that the Marvel U has its own share of retcons and continuity gaffes, such that its history is no more or less convoluted that DC's, and I think you could make a fair argument. But still, I think there's enough there in the Marvel U that provides a sense of history, at least more so than DC. Agreed 100%. Continuity gaffes and minor retcons are nothing to worry about, as actual history is replete with them (or with their equivalent). The pre-crisis DC multiverse was not difficult at all to understand, and not particularly hard to follow if you cared to. The long history of characters (from the 40s to the present day) gave readers an incentive to learn more about them, just the way it's interesting to learn how the modern world evolved from that of a century ago, which itself developed from what occurred a century before that, and so on. A good standalone story will always be a good standalone story, irrespective of continuity considerations. But modern comic-book world reboots aren't about standalone stories; they're about restarting new continuities, which we don't need. The past history of the DC universe or of the Marvel universe already exists: we have the funny books to prove it. Pretending that it never happened just kills the joy of exploring a rich, varied and often bizarre past for the sake of… of what, exactly? Just avoiding the need to explain that Tony Stark is too old to have been hurt during the Vietnam war? |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 4, 2014 13:21:24 GMT -5
I'm actually ok with them establishing universes... I just want them to pick one and stick with it, instead of each writing an indy comic and plastering Marvel characters on it.
I don't think it will happen, for all the reasons you said and others, but I would be happy if it did at this point... really since the 'event era' started, Marvel's most interesting stuff has been alternate universes (Ultimate, 2099, MC2, etc).
Personally, I like Remender the best, but anyone not named Hickman would be fine. If Hickman's universe wins, I'd certainly be done with Marvel until he's gone, but I find that unlikely... all reports are when he finishes ruining the Avengers next year he'll be done with Marvel.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 4, 2014 13:23:59 GMT -5
I'd actually take a reboot at this point, if it meant having an Marvel Universe again, instead of the Remender-verse, the Hickman-verse, the Bendis-verse, the other Bendis-verse, etc. I think a re-boot could be done more like Marvel Ultimate than Crisis, and would work really nicely... you don't have to re-hash the old stories, after all. (…) I don't expect to see a reboot. An event that teases one, walks the line of one, that changes certain things, certainly, but at the end of the day I expect them to keep enough intact to say-hey see we didn't reboot, Marvel doesn't do that...it's the whole illusion of change thing really. That makes sense, and I hope that's the way Marvel goes. When problems exist, they can be dealt with in-universe. Just bring back the Beyonder for a little while and have him resurrect a few people and change the timeline ever so slightly, and everything's cool. (Or in some cases, just ignore the continuity problems; pretend they never existed). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2014 13:36:33 GMT -5
Here's the problem with all the reboots and revamps-they "toss out the old" then try to cram all the good stuff from it (all the world building, character development, dramatic hooks etc. that took 50-75 years to build) into one 6 part story that establishes all of it again with their own "twist" on it, a fresh coat of paint essentially. It results in bad, poorly paced, and illogical stories and weak foundations that can't sustain any growth. They cannot take their time and do it organically like it was done before because they will lose a chunk of the small remaining fanbase if X element is not there, but each element of the fanbase has a different x they cling to, so all those x's have to be crammed into the new version to remain at viable sales levels, and the end result is not a new, better, stronger product, but a pale imitation of what was with a random mash up of things that once worked, but do not in the new paradigm, because any kind of solid foundation to start with isn't present. They are trying to build sexy penthouses that sell for big money without laying the foundations and building up to it, which takes time and steady progress.
The movies are the sexy penthouses these days, because they are building on the best of the foundations, selectively taking the bits that work, but the comics are throwing everything in these "reboots because they don't want to lose any of the fans clinging to the individual pieces, so weaken the whole to accommodate it.
As a counterpoint-Ultimate Spider-Man worked so well as a reboot of sorts because Bendis took time to build the character from the ground up using elements of the past. He didn't try to have Ultimate Spider-Man be the Spidey everyone knew after 6 issues, he just laid the foundation to build on that and moved on from there. These recent reboots/revamps haven't done that. They've tried essentially to have their cake and eat it too, and the resulting product/stories have been weaker because of it, leading to a faster and faster cycle of sales attrition on a lot of them, leading to more reaches to boost sales and more revamps/reboots. To add to the metaphors-you can't please everyone all the time and trying to simple displease them all-these reboots are trying to play to the whims of market instead of playing to the strengths of the characters/products.
Just my 2 cents, rant mode over.
-M
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 4, 2014 13:47:25 GMT -5
As a counterpoint-Ultimate Spider-Man worked so well as a reboot of sorts because Bendis took time to build the character from the ground up using elements of the past. He didn't try to have Ultimate Spider-Man be the Spidey everyone knew after 6 issues, he just laid the foundation to build on that and moved on from there. Much as I am loathe to admit it, the Legion of super-heroes reboot following the 5-year gap also worked (retroactively for me, because I dropped the book for several years). Elements from the past (Computo, Ferro Lad, Mordru) were reintroduced little by little, and if some reworkings were spectacularly bad (the new origin of Wildfire stank!), overall the rebuilding led to an engaging title with characters I grew to care for again. My general advice regarding reboots would however be: a) don't reboot; b) don't lead your title to a situation where a reboot is needed. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2014 18:12:06 GMT -5
Just preordered the second Usagi Yojimbo Saga HC, due in March. I went through TFAW instead of Amazon. Cost about $10 more, but pretty sure it won't arrive destroyed, so in the long run it aught to save me about $40 by not having to return it and buy it off eBay after it's sold out everywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 3:18:04 GMT -5
Just read the first issue of Kurt Busiek's new Image series Tooth & Claw....big thumbs up for it. Great stuff!
-M
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Post by Jesse on Nov 6, 2014 9:58:27 GMT -5
Rocket Raccoon #5 was crazy fun.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,838
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Post by shaxper on Nov 6, 2014 10:09:15 GMT -5
Just preordered the second Usagi Yojimbo Saga HC, due in March. I went through TFAW instead of Amazon. Cost about $10 more, but pretty sure it won't arrive destroyed, so in the long run it aught to save me about $40 by not having to return it and buy it off eBay after it's sold out everywhere. The third volume is up for pre-order as well. |
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Post by Jesse on Nov 6, 2014 14:39:13 GMT -5
Tooth & Claw #1 was excellent.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 18:04:37 GMT -5
Axis continues to be monumentally crap - truly the worst Marvel event series in years, getting close to the level of awfulness of Infinite Final Crisis On Worlds No-One Cares About, which is really going some.
Outside the big 2, I'm quite liking Day Men and Men of Wrath, whereas Real Heroes started averagely and seems to have got worse with each issue; haven't read Tooth & Claw yet
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 3:38:47 GMT -5
Just preordered the second Usagi Yojimbo Saga HC, due in March. I went through TFAW instead of Amazon. Cost about $10 more, but pretty sure it won't arrive destroyed, so in the long run it aught to save me about $40 by not having to return it and buy it off eBay after it's sold out everywhere. The third volume is up for pre-order as well. Yeah I saw that, I'll hold off on that preorder though. They won't charge my card until it ships, but I don't want to get too deep in it. I don't know if I'll have the second job that far into the future |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,838
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Post by shaxper on Nov 7, 2014 13:42:18 GMT -5
The third volume is up for pre-order as well. Yeah I saw that, I'll hold off on that preorder though. They won't charge my card until it ships, but I don't want to get too deep in it. I don't know if I'll have the second job that far into the future I put off buying back issues for that reason, but not classy hardcover trades like these. Once they go out of print, they go out of print. Volume 1 is already selling for twice the pre-order price, and it only came out this week. Amazon is completely out. Mine was #744 of 900. In fact, if I had the time, energy, and capital, I'd buy twenty copies next time and sell 19 of them. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 8, 2014 10:23:46 GMT -5
I gave my boy $20 Thurday for his book fair. He bought a Minecraft book and Godzilla: The Half Century War TPB. I haven't read it yet but paged through it and the art looks like a good ole manga with lots of guest monsters.
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