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Post by misterintensity on Jul 7, 2014 22:11:29 GMT -5
The weird thing about Batgirl for Congress is that the US Constitution states you must be 25 to be elected to the House. I never thought of her being that old. The pre-Crisis Batgirl was firmly an adult in her mid to late-20's. While her age was never clearly stated she was portrayed as older than Dick Grayson but younger than Bruce Wayne. The age difference between Batgirl and Robin was a major plot point in the Dynamite Duo stories in Batman Family. It was only after the reboot after Crisis on Infinite Earths that she was presented as a contemporary to Dick Grayson. |
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Post by DubipR on Jul 8, 2014 8:15:18 GMT -5
Since we're talking Batgirl....
I had this as a ringtone for the longest time.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
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Post by Confessor on Jul 14, 2014 12:14:05 GMT -5
I read the three part mini-series The Untold Legend of the Batman a few months ago and I found it fascinating. It was semi-mind-blowing to see what kind of hokey stuff was considered canon in the pre-crisis Bat-verse. Myself, I like Batman fine and I have a respectable 40 or 50 issues of Batman comics in my collection – mostly Silver or Bronze Age and none later than 1994. So, I'm not a hardcore Batman fan at all, but some of the things mentioned in this story amazed me.
For example, I had no idea that Bruce Wayne's farther had fought crime in a Batman suit, years before the bat that reminded Bruce that "criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot" flew through his window. Likewise, the teenage Bruce Wayne adopting the Robin persona years before Dick Grayson was a bit of a "really?!" moment. Other things mentioned in the story that I had no idea about previously include a kindly uncle taking Bruce in after his parents death, the cleaner at Wayne Manor secretly being Joe Chill's mother and that Alfred the butler had liberated concentration camps in World War 2.
I have to say, although a lot of these canonical things that I had been previously unaware of are just rubbish IMO, I did really enjoy the mini-series. Well, except for the ending, where the mystery bad guy turns out to be Bruce himself after having had a knock on the head. That's just plain terrible. Anyway, Untold Legends of the Batman was a really interesting read.
Anyone else love or hate this series?
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Post by Jesse on Jul 14, 2014 13:32:06 GMT -5
The Untold Legend of the Batman is actually my favorite Batman origin story and I've collected a few different versions of it including the pocketbook and MPI audio cassette version. I often find myself rereading certain parts of it and have already posted a few scans from it in the thread. There are a few things about it that I dislike that have been mentioned. Bruce being the original Robin and the maid Mrs. Chilton being Joe Chill's mother for example. Thomas Wayne first wearing a Batman costume I do kind of like as long as it's just the one time at a costume party.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 14, 2014 13:55:56 GMT -5
I've never read Untold Legends of Batman, but it sounds like something I should get to eventually. I started reading comics in the mid-1970s but I wasn't much of a DC fan until the early 1980s, so Untold Legends wasn't something I was interested in back then.
But I love all that hokey stuff! I got Michael Fleischer's Batman Encyclopedia for Christmas in the late 1970s, so I knew about a lot of that older material, like Thomas Wayne appearing in a Batman suit in a flashback in a story from 1955. That's a great story! I finally read it in The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told.
Alfred's World War II experiences weren't added until much later. I'm not sure exactly when that became canon, but when I was reading Batman and Detective starting about 1981, Alfred had a daughter Julia (he had an affair with WW II French Resistance fighter Mlle. Marie) who showed up and lived at Wayne Manor for a time. I always thought that was kind of cool.
(The bit about Joe Chill's mother is something I never heard of before. That does sound kind of stupid.)
Let's not be too hard on Bronze Age Batman. The stories of today are also full of dumb stuff that readers have no trouble accepting because it's what they are used to. (I'm not reading comics at present, but just a little over a year ago, I was reading some goofy-as-hell comics. Like Red She-Hulk! I thought that was AWESOME!) All but the very best modern comics are going to look ridiculous to critics in 2040.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 14, 2014 14:28:25 GMT -5
I'm not a bat expert but those bits that you mentioned from the mini-series Untold Legends Of Batman came from 1950s stories that were reprinted in the 60s in the Annuals or 80 page specials.I remember the story about Bruce's father going to a masquerade ball dressed in a bat-type costume and trying to stop some robbery.Same as Bruce wearing a Robin-looking costume for some reason in his youth.And it was Batman #200 that revealed Joe Chill's mother caring for the orphaned Bruce.So basically these were just re-iterations of what was already established
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Post by Jesse on Jul 14, 2014 15:12:30 GMT -5
Alfred had a daughter Julia (he had an affair with WW II French Resistance fighter Mlle. Marie) who showed up and lived at Wayne Manor for a time. I always thought that was kind of cool. Alfred's daughter just recently showed up in Batman Eternal. I'm not a bat expert but those bits that you mentioned from the mini-series Untold Legends Of Batman came from 1950s stories that were reprinted in the 60s in the Annuals or 80 page specials.I remember the story about Bruce's father going to a masquerade ball dressed in a bat-type costume and trying to stop some robbery.Same as Bruce wearing a Robin-looking costume for some reason in his youth.And it was Batman #200 that revealed Joe Chill's mother caring for the orphaned Bruce.So basically these were just re-iterations of what was already established From what I've heard Untold is mostly adapted from older Bill Finger stories. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 14, 2014 16:19:30 GMT -5
I'm not a bat expert but those bits that you mentioned from the mini-series Untold Legends Of Batman came from 1950s stories that were reprinted in the 60s in the Annuals or 80 page specials.I remember the story about Bruce's father going to a masquerade ball dressed in a bat-type costume and trying to stop some robbery.Same as Bruce wearing a Robin-looking costume for some reason in his youth.And it was Batman #200 that revealed Joe Chill's mother caring for the orphaned Bruce.So basically these were just re-iterations of what was already established Ish, just being OCD about this. It's Batman 208.  |
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Post by foxley on Jul 14, 2014 16:57:29 GMT -5
Not necessarily Bill Finger stories, but the vast majority collected snippets about Bruce's history that had been revealed piecemeal (and without any real consideration for an overarcing origin) and put it together as a cohesive whole. A few details, such as Bruce deciding not to go into law enforcement after a lecture from his law professor, were I think created for the mini-series to fill gaps in the story.
I really like the mini-series. Foe Bat-fans of a certain age, this was the definitive origin story of the pre-Crisis Batman.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 14, 2014 17:05:11 GMT -5
I'm not a bat expert but those bits that you mentioned from the mini-series Untold Legends Of Batman came from 1950s stories that were reprinted in the 60s in the Annuals or 80 page specials.I remember the story about Bruce's father going to a masquerade ball dressed in a bat-type costume and trying to stop some robbery.Same as Bruce wearing a Robin-looking costume for some reason in his youth.And it was Batman #200 that revealed Joe Chill's mother caring for the orphaned Bruce.So basically these were just re-iterations of what was already established Ish, just being OCD about this. It's Batman 208. No prob.I just shoot my mouth with 45 year old memories without double checking.A bad habit |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Jul 14, 2014 21:22:35 GMT -5
Let's not be too hard on Bronze Age Batman. The stories of today are also full of dumb stuff that readers have no trouble accepting because it's what they are used to. Oh, don't get wrong, I like reading all that hokey stuff, even if some parts of it are not that great. I totally agree that older comics are no more silly than a lot of modern superhero titles in their own way. I guess I was just shocked at some of the things that were canon before Crisis happened. I had no idea about a lot of this stuff, but I really enjoyed reading the mini-series. So basically these were just re-iterations of what was already established Oh yeah, I get that. I imagine that the mini-series was simply a way to bring new readers of the era up to speed with all the significant developements in these character's lives since 1940 or so. As such, it's quite skillfully done, although it inevitably relies on a lot of overly wordy exposition leading into flashbacks. Lots of Bruce saying stuff like, "ah yes, Alfred...how well I remember that time that I first doned the Robin costume..." |
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Post by travishedgecoke on Jul 14, 2014 22:57:35 GMT -5
I love parts of Untold Legend, but on the whole, I don't much like it and I'm glad other origins are available, instead. Year One's both an incredibly stronger story, in my opinion, and gives me more of what I want, especially with Alfred's inclusion from moment one.
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Post by foxley on Jul 15, 2014 2:23:43 GMT -5
I love parts of Untold Legend, but on the whole, I don't much like it and I'm glad other origins are available, instead. Year One's both an incredibly stronger story, in my opinion, and gives me more of what I want, especially with Alfred's inclusion from moment one. Alfred's inclusion from moment one, yes. Selina Kyle being a hooker? Not so much. |
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Post by Jesse on Jul 15, 2014 14:38:02 GMT -5
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 18, 2014 0:04:35 GMT -5
I went to the library and picked up Showcase Presents: Batman, Volume One, and Showcase Presents: Batgirl, so I'll be looking through those for a few weeks.
I already flipped through the Batgirl volume and I can't believe how many of these I've read! Batgirl didn't really appear that much when she started out.
And World's Finest #169 is her third appearance! I have a copy of Batgirl's third appearance! (It's the one with the Supergirl/Batgirl plot where they are scheming against Superman and Batman. The cover has Superman without powers and they appear to be living in the Batmobile and it has a flat tire. And Supergirl and Batgirl are spying on them from behind a fence and Supergirl is thinking: "Ha! Our scheme worked! Batgirl and I have made those heroes has-beens!"
I think it's really cool that Batgirl has been assimilated so smoothly and so quickly into the DC Universe that it's her third appearance and she's already hanging out with Supergirl and involved in a conspiracy to humiliate the company's biggest superstars. That's when you know you've made it!
And I love that about her 1960s appearances! She's so comfortable and so confident, wading right in and getting involved in these Silver Age shenanigans like it's perfectly natural!
I also have my own copies of her 4th, 5th and 6th appearances, in Detective #369, Batman #197 (where she holds her own against Catwoman) and Brave and the Bold #78 (where she shares team-up billing with Batman AND Wonder Woman!)
And I've read a few of these in other Showcase volumes.
I didn't realize that Batgirl got such great treatment when she first appeared. These are all fun stories, with art by guys like Infantino and and Sekowsky and Bob Brown, and plus, she gets Bob Haney as a writer on her sixth appearance!
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