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Post by Warmonger on Mar 18, 2016 14:16:02 GMT -5
WOW The apartment fight in episode 3 kicks the hell out of the hallway scene from Season 1. It only gets better. I just watched Frank impale someone with a broken broomstick. Just rammed the thing right through his chest. They've ripped the character right from the pages of MAX. They've taken that 55 year old Frank Castle and shaved a good 15-20 years off. Same guy, but the wounds are still fresh. Thats the only difference. If this season was a Punisher comic book it would easily go down as one of the best Punisher stories ever. I had high hopes for this from the beginning and this season has surpassed them so far. And that speech Frank gave about his little girl in episode 4 hits you right in the damn feelz. |
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Post by dupersuper on Mar 18, 2016 19:56:11 GMT -5
My weekend can't start soon enough...
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Post by Warmonger on Mar 18, 2016 23:48:02 GMT -5
Good God...*slight spoiler*
The Fisk/Murdock meeting in prison is absolutely epic.
D'onofrio portrays Kingpin as the beast he is.
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Post by Gene on Mar 19, 2016 9:47:54 GMT -5
I'm six episodes in. Love what they've done so far with the Punisher. All of the hype surrounding the character had me worried that he would take over the show, but so far he's been a perfect fit. I'm not as sold on Elektra yet. The changes to her back story with Matt feel kind of tacked on and take away from the tragedy of Miller's character.
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Post by coke & comics on Mar 20, 2016 0:11:06 GMT -5
9 episodes in. On a very high level, really liking the story they've chosen to tell. It feels right on almost all levels. Not right like ripped straight from the comics, but right in terms of matching my impression of the stories. This is the Punisher/Daredevil/Elektra story, rather than a story with those characters if that makes sense. On that note, two minor quibbles. Not that they are problems, but they could keep it from being the perfect definitive story. I'll check back in after the season's done.
1. I don't like where they are going with this conspiracy surrounding the death of Frank's family. I guess it gives Karen something to do for the rest of the season, but I prefer to leave origins as simple and iconic as possible. Don't mess with it. Up until now, it's played such a small role that it may as well have not been there.
2. Not an actual quibble. But a preemptive pre-quibble. If they kill Elektra this season, I will be sad. I would like Season 3 to have her come back, work for the Kingpin, and get killed by Bullseye. Maybe they won't. Not done yet. But I don't want them to. This isn't really a quibble, as it hasn't happened/may not even happen.
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Post by coke & comics on Mar 20, 2016 4:07:47 GMT -5
9 episodes in. On a very high level, really liking the story they've chosen to tell. It feels right on almost all levels. Not right like ripped straight from the comics, but right in terms of matching my impression of the stories. This is the Punisher/Daredevil/Elektra story, rather than a story with those characters if that makes sense. On that note, two minor quibbles. Not that they are problems, but they could keep it from being the perfect definitive story. I'll check back in after the season's done.
1. I don't like where they are going with this conspiracy surrounding the death of Frank's family. I guess it gives Karen something to do for the rest of the season, but I prefer to leave origins as simple and iconic as possible. Don't mess with it. Up until now, it's played such a small role that it may as well have not been there.
2. Not an actual quibble. But a preemptive pre-quibble. If they kill Elektra this season, I will be sad. I would like Season 3 to have her come back, work for the Kingpin, and get killed by Bullseye. Maybe they won't. Not done yet. But I don't want them to. This isn't really a quibble, as it hasn't happened/may not even happen.
Yeah, the entire season was excellent. I stand by my 2 quibbles, not because they're a problem per se; they're just different from what I would have preferred. Even moreso on point 1 by the end. Way too convoluted. |
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 20, 2016 9:00:35 GMT -5
Yeah, the entire season was excellent. I stand by my 2 quibbles, not because they're a problem per se; they're just different from what I would have preferred. Even moreso on point 1 by the end. Way too convoluted. Yeah that one a little wacky. The series of events I was able to work out is:
- The Blacksmith was smuggling heroin from Afghanistan and was using men from his unit as muscle
- A sting was organized by the DA to bust him.
- He never showed up and it went bad, with Frank and his family being caught in the crossfire.
- The DA covers the whole thing up and issues a DNR on Frank
Spelled out like that it's a little neater. But the way information is doled out the whole thing is a bit of a mind bend with parallel conspiracies. |
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Post by coke & comics on Mar 20, 2016 13:23:24 GMT -5
Yeah, the entire season was excellent. I stand by my 2 quibbles, not because they're a problem per se; they're just different from what I would have preferred. Even moreso on point 1 by the end. Way too convoluted. Yeah that one a little wacky. The series of events I was able to work out is:
- The Blacksmith was smuggling heroin from Afghanistan and was using men from his unit as muscle
- A sting was organized by the DA to bust him.
- He never showed up and it went bad, with Frank and his family being caught in the crossfire.
- The DA covers the whole thing up and issues a DNR on Frank
Spelled out like that it's a little neater. But the way information is doled out the whole thing is a bit of a mind bend with parallel conspiracies. And that The Blacksmith was his friend and commander. I don't mind stories along those lines.
I just don't like them getting in the way of origin stories.
Family killed by gangsters.
Good and iconic.
Not family killed in crossfire as part of a sting to catch an archcriminal that went badly where the archcriminal turned out to be Frank's commander, and then the district attorney tried to cover everything up by falsifying medical records and police reports.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 20, 2016 15:52:32 GMT -5
Yeah that one a little wacky. The series of events I was able to work out is:
- The Blacksmith was smuggling heroin from Afghanistan and was using men from his unit as muscle
- A sting was organized by the DA to bust him.
- He never showed up and it went bad, with Frank and his family being caught in the crossfire.
- The DA covers the whole thing up and issues a DNR on Frank
Spelled out like that it's a little neater. But the way information is doled out the whole thing is a bit of a mind bend with parallel conspiracies. And that The Blacksmith was his friend and commander. I don't mind stories along those lines.
I just don't like them getting in the way of origin stories.
Family killed by gangsters.
Good and iconic.
Not family killed in crossfire as part of a sting to catch an archcriminal that went badly where the archcriminal turned out to be Frank's commander, and then the district attorney tried to cover everything up by falsifying medical records and police reports.
Thats just what has to happen if you want a 13 hour origin story. If it was just "family killed by gangsters" it would have been wrapped up in four episodes. Then what? The story has to be fleshed out and I don't think it's a big deal, or that it detracts from the core of the story. |
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Post by Warmonger on Mar 20, 2016 18:52:00 GMT -5
It'll be a travesty if we don't see a Punisher series on Netflix starring Bernthal. Fantastic casting by Marvel.
Would also be cool if they could get guys like Ennis and Mike Baron on board to help write for it.
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Post by Gene on Mar 20, 2016 21:37:38 GMT -5
I just finished watching. Overall, I thought it was fantastic. I'll put the specifics under spoiler tags for the folks who haven't watched yet. I got chills during the confrontation between Murdock and Fisk. When Fisk threatened Matt and Foggy, my jaw just about hit the floor. Couple that with Matt's reveal to Karen in the finale and I'm thinking that we'll see the MCU take on Born Again sooner rather than later.
The conspiracy surrounding Frank's origin was a little much, but it kept his story moving through the course of the season. Now that it's out of the way, I'm excited to see what's next for the Punisher.
I didn't love the changes to Elektra's back story, but they worked within the context of the series and the story they're telling and that's what's most important.
Elektra's death is such an iconic moment from the comic that I thought for sure that it would get a more direct translation later on. I guess it was a necessary change if the showrunners are trying to keep the Hand and Fisk storylines separate. |
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Post by coke & comics on Mar 20, 2016 21:49:08 GMT -5
I just finished watching. Overall, I thought it was fantastic. I'll put the specifics under spoiler tags for the folks who haven't watched yet. I got chills during the confrontation between Murdock and Fisk. When Fisk threatened Matt and Foggy, my jaw just about hit the floor. Couple that with Matt's reveal to Karen in the finale and I'm thinking that we'll see the MCU take on Born Again sooner rather than later.
The conspiracy surrounding Frank's origin was a little much, but it kept his story moving through the course of the season. Now that it's out of the way, I'm excited to see what's next for the Punisher.
I didn't love the changes to Elektra's back story, but they worked within the context of the series and the story they're telling and that's what's most important.
Elektra's death is such an iconic moment from the comic that I thought for sure that it would get a more direct translation later on. I guess it was a necessary change if the showrunners are trying to keep the Hand and Fisk storylines separate. Largely agreed except for one point.
Elektra's back story seemed close enough. She was trained at a young age as a martial artist and later in life continued her training with Stick. Making Stick the original mentor seemed a smooth enough change. And fits with him training Matt as a kid.
On the other hand, none of the Black Sky business really worked for me. Perhaps because it hasn't yet been explained well enough. But mostly it was something I accepted as a plot driver for genuinely good character conflict between Matt, Elektra and Stick.
The actor who plays Stick is really perfect, but the differences in his character quite stick out. In the comics, he rejected Matt for being too dark and violent. In the show, just the opposite.
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Post by Gene on Mar 21, 2016 8:14:37 GMT -5
I just finished watching. Overall, I thought it was fantastic. I'll put the specifics under spoiler tags for the folks who haven't watched yet. I got chills during the confrontation between Murdock and Fisk. When Fisk threatened Matt and Foggy, my jaw just about hit the floor. Couple that with Matt's reveal to Karen in the finale and I'm thinking that we'll see the MCU take on Born Again sooner rather than later.
The conspiracy surrounding Frank's origin was a little much, but it kept his story moving through the course of the season. Now that it's out of the way, I'm excited to see what's next for the Punisher.
I didn't love the changes to Elektra's back story, but they worked within the context of the series and the story they're telling and that's what's most important.
Elektra's death is such an iconic moment from the comic that I thought for sure that it would get a more direct translation later on. I guess it was a necessary change if the showrunners are trying to keep the Hand and Fisk storylines separate. Largely agreed except for one point.
Elektra's back story seemed close enough. She was trained at a young age as a martial artist and later in life continued her training with Stick. Making Stick the original mentor seemed a smooth enough change. And fits with him training Matt as a kid.
On the other hand, none of the Black Sky business really worked for me. Perhaps because it hasn't yet been explained well enough. But mostly it was something I accepted as a plot driver for genuinely good character conflict between Matt, Elektra and Stick.
The actor who plays Stick is really perfect, but the differences in his character quite stick out. In the comics, he rejected Matt for being too dark and violent. In the show, just the opposite.
On Stick: I think the change made to Stick's reasoning for abandoning Matt is intentional. My guess right now is that he realized early on that Matt would be the key to winning the War, so he purposefully pushed him away so he could grow into something more than a soldier for the Chaste. |
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 21, 2016 14:34:22 GMT -5
The actor is Scott Glenn, who played Jack Crawford in Silence of the Lambs. When he was doing research for SotL John Douglas (who Crawford was based on) played him a tape of Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris brutalizing a teenage girl. He reversed his stance on the death penalty and supposedly still had nightmares about it years later. The reason he listened to the tape was to give the character a feeling of realism, since the character would have spent years being exposed the horrible things like that. I just think it's interesting that he's now starring in a TV series where those ideas are being discussed by the characters. |
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Post by Gene on Mar 21, 2016 15:55:58 GMT -5
Thoughts about the Hand/Chaste storyline and what might be in store for Defenders: Matt is the Chaste from Stick's story, just like Elektra turned out to be the Black Sky of the Hand. We've now seen that Stick is willing to kill other members of the Chaste order to protect his own interests, and he continued to keep tabs on and manipulate Matt even after leaving him. When asked point blank by Matt if Stick was the boy in the story, the answer was a dismissive "sure." Whatever Stick is playing at, he wants to make sure that the Chaste and the Black Sky are in his pocket.
Could the War be what brings the Defenders together? It's possible, but I have doubts. It could be a big enough story to pull in all four series leads, but Matt is the only character of the three we've met so far that has a personal stake in it. I'm thinking that the crossover will involve the Defenders taking on a military conspiracy in Hell's Kitchen. We've already seen Simpson/Nuke in Jessica Jones. Hints were also made in that series that Jessica's abilities are tied to the same experiment. Luke Cage has already mentioned that his powers come from experimentation, and the similar nature of his, Jessica's, and Nuke's powers suggest that there could be ties. Add to that the Col. Schoonover/Blacksmith plot from season 2 of Daredevil and we have some connective tissue pulling the series together. |
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