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Post by elliotja on May 3, 2017 5:14:26 GMT -5
Right, it can work in several ways. I have Conan on a single long shelf, and whoever wants to borrow it, receives reading-order instructions LOL (and has to return the books in the same order, that's the condition). Everyone mentions how the order makes it a full fledged saga, that much a better read. Reading in SSC publishing order is annoying because of sudden change in scenery and time, and because of mentioning of side characters (and events) off and on page. [Suffice to say I mixed up all Marvel editions (in Hyborian order, it's epic) with the exception of mini-series, have no clue where they fit.] So as a casual reader, and not an expert (Raider can help us here), these things I took into consideration (when sorting): - Legions of the Dead is a direct prequel to Twilight, and at that time he is with Aesir people. It's like his second/adopted tribe. They of course expect him to fight for them (so in effect he is a mercenary; in fact he even frames himself as a mercenary later on in Coming. Smooth!). - In Twilight he witnessed deaths of not less than two kings, and has seen and got involved, in more than any of the tribal chieftains. Close to power centers, he's been in the belly of the beast in that one, as if he spoke with God himself. - The war is still on, after Twilight Conan rejoins Aesir and delivers what he is payed for. - In Coming, he is with Aesir, but mentions he is not particularly attached: "I've done my work for Aesir gold". - At the end of Coming, once Conan leaves Aesir people - there is no going back. There is a streak of solo-adventures one after another. - The Frost Giants Daughter takes place early on, before Legions of the Dead. "The Frost" is BTW a perfect opener, incredible story about innocence lost, coming of age and becoming a man. (It's not really about giants-giants, as in Middle-earth giants. As he is very young at the time - two brothers, who are grown men in their 30s/40s, they appear to him as giants, a metaphor. Very strong in subtext, that story.) It is parcimonious to assume that Conan does not retread the same ground too often. His very first adventure would then be set in Cimmeria, before he leaves his homeland for the first time. Conan the adventurer #1 (the sack of Venarium) and People of the Dark (SSoC#6) would be placed there. Conan next travels north, where he works as a mercenary for the Aesir against their traditional enemies, the Vanir to the west and the Hyperboreans to the east. The coming of Conan (CtB#1), the demon out of the deep (CtB#69), Lair of the beast-men (CtB#2), the shadow in the tomb (CtB#31) can all be placed in that period in no particular order -although I would favour publication order as much as possible. Then the next logical point is the frost giant's daughter (Savage Tales #1), set somewhere in the west of Aesgaard. It is the last time Conan will fight Vanirmen before he and his band move eastward to fight Hyperboreans. We know this happened because in that band is old Gorm, a character who is also present in Legions of the dead (set in Hyperborea) (SSoC#38). The Aesir fight the Hyperborean witch Vamatar and are defeated. Conan is captured, and escapes in CtB#254 (Havoc in Hyperborea) with a chain loosely attached to both his wrists. This is probably meant to be the chain he still wears in twilight of the grim grey god (CtB#3), but we must also account for the thing in the crypt (CtB#92), which is also sets after Conan escapes from Hyperboreans. Just how many times can one lad escape the same jailers? My own take on it is that CtB#92 simply omitted to draw the chain on Conan's wrists, and that the proper order is Frost giant's daughter - Legion of the dead - Havoc in Hyperborea - the thing in the crypt - twilight of the grim grey god. After CtB#3, Conan is in Brythunia, no longer in the north, and as he continues his journey he eventually reaches Zamora for CtB#4 and tower of the elephant. So much continuity to sift through... we're like Roy Thomas's sidekicks!!! But Thing in the Crypt ends with Conan in possession of the sword he took from the tomb, and he doesn't have it in Twilight, so something must have happened between those two stories for him to loose it. Him being waylaid by roving Hyperboreans would explain this, but one has to wonder why Conan would go inside yet another sinister tomb after his experience in Thing in the Crypt. Ye gods, Conan's Hyperborean captivity and escape is a continuity headache!!! |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 3, 2017 7:30:21 GMT -5
But Thing in the Crypt ends with Conan in possession of the sword he took from the tomb, and he doesn't have it in Twilight, so something must have happened between those two stories for him to loose it. Him being waylaid by roving Hyperboreans would explain this, but one has to wonder why Conan would go inside yet another sinister tomb after his experience in Thing in the Crypt. Ye gods, Conan's Hyperborean captivity and escape is a continuity headache!!! Well, in the real world it's easily explained: both comic stories are independent takes on the same prose tale. It's only because we want to make as many comic stories as possible part of the canon that we inflict this headache on ourselves!  Conan not having retained his sword at the end of "The thing in the crypt" could be explained by simply setting the tale a few weeks earlier, and supposing that he was captured by Hyperboreans and escape a first time before being retaken by Vammatar's legion of the dead. It would also explain why his wrists aren't chained in "the thing in the crypt". My only problem with that explanation is that when Legion of the dead begins, we are told that Conan's Aesir allies (the same ones he was with in the frost giant's daughter, far, far to the west) has just arrived in Hyperborea to free Njal's daughter from the raiders who stole her from their Asgardian village. This seems to leave little room for Conan to have been captured, to have freed himself, to have found the sword in the crypt and to have rejoined his comrades... but this is comics, so why not? |
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Post by senatortombstone on May 7, 2017 15:20:34 GMT -5
And what about his encounters with Bor'Aqh Sharaq? I would be greatly interested in hearing Roquefort Raider, whom I consider to be the principal Nemedian scholar of our times, pontificate on Bor'Aqh Sharaq. Personally, I never cared for this villain. I thought he was too cruel and evil, and I was disappointed that there was never an irrevocable conclusion to his presence in the SSoC series. I wonder if Roy Thomas considered the tales containing him to be apocryphal and therefore never bothered to write up a fitting conclusion to his villainy. I just finished reading Chronicles of Conan #32, which reprints CtB #250-258. I really love how Roy connected his first run of this series to his second. The fact that Conan's previous actions had far flung consequences was good continuity. He even acknowledged the legitimacy of Conobar. Funny, Conan did not seem all that upset that he had lost a son, let alone that he himself killed his own son. Far from his reaction when he thought Conn dead for a time. I also love his temporary sidekick Hobb, The Lion of Anuphar. When done right, this genre handles humor very well. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 7, 2017 17:07:00 GMT -5
So is The Changeling Quest before or after Pool of the Black One? And what about his encounters with Bor'Aqh Sharaq? The Michael Fleisher stories are always difficult to place in continuity, because the writer paid no attention to it. Conan loses a Barachan ship at the start of the changeling quest. I would therefore place the story before Pool of the Black One, as Conan is still a Barachan pirate and not yet a Zingaran buccaneer. One assumes that after this adventure on land, Conan returns to the sea and manages to get another ship. (It's unfortunate that SSoC has far many more stories featuring the loss of a ship than the gaining of one... and even more annoying that few of these are given names, something that would greatly help our attempts at drafting a coherent continuity). This assumes that we agree with L. Sprague de Camp's (and Marvel's) continuity, a continuity that makes a clear distinction between Conan's career as a Barachan pirate and as a Zingaran Buccaneer. Howard himself didn't make much of said difference, although he mentions the animosity between the two groups, and my own impression is that after gaining captaincy of the Zingaran Wastrel, Conan had no problem at all going back to Port Tortage to settle accounts with the people who had forced him to flee the place on a rowboat in the first place. We saw just such an event in SSoC # 129. I'm sure that to Conan, Barachan or Zingaran were quite interchangeable, and that he'd have kept calling himself "pirate" and frequented the alehouses of Port Tortage whenever it suited him. I base my impression on the fact that when Conan is recognized by the little Tina in The black stranger, he is not "Conan the Zingaran buccaneer" but "Conan the Barachan pirate". This recognition cannot come from Conan's initial stint among the Barachans, for when Capotain Zaporavo of the Wastrel fist meets him, he has no idea who Conan is. That a little girl would recognize a famous pirate while a seasoned Buccaneer does not would make no sense, and so it is logical to assume that Conan became famous as a Barachan after he stole the Wastrel from Zaporavo. Also notable is that when Conan and Valeria talk about their piratical careers in Red Nails, no mention is made of Zingara... only of the Barachan islands. Be that as it may, in the Marvel canon, Conan was a Barachan pirate first, and after a clean break when he took over the Wastrel, he became a Zingaran buccaneer. So according to this version of events, the changeling quest must have occurred before pool of the black one. Regarding Bor'aqh Sharaq: the maimed pirate and Conan must have met at around the same time, either a few months before or a few months later. Just as in the changeling quest, Conan loses a Barachan ship as the story opens so it must be before pool of the black one and the start of his Zingaran buccaneer career. |
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Post by elliotja on May 12, 2017 15:55:53 GMT -5
Actually, in rereading The Shadow in the Tomb, there's no mention of Conan escaping Hyperboreans, just that he's on the run from some Vanir. This story could easily occur in his very early days prior to Legions of the Dead. I do maintain, however, that something must befall Conan between Thing in the Crypt and Twilight, as he looses the sword he gains in the former tale. It just works better that way to me than to try and stick it before Legions.
Also reread the Skull on the Seas storyline, and again been considering the seeming errors in geography there, namely how Conan and co are able to reach Ayer's Rock, near central Australia, from the coast in seemingly just a few days. Well, straight after being separated from the Khitans and serpent men, Conan and the Thoth-Amon-possessed monkey are captured by the marsupial semi-humans at the same time as Conan's friends are captured by the serpent men. The next scene shows Conan being led by the marsupials into their tree-village, and a caption tells us that the Khitans and serpent men reach the Great Rock around sunset. Later one of the rainbow snakes tells Conan that the Great Rock is two days away from her cave home, to which Conan has gone the day after escaping the marsupials. But we don't really know how long Conan's journey between being initially captured by the marsupials and arriving in their village took; for all we know it was a number of days. It's a stretch, I know, but it would help a bit if we were to assume several days pass between scenes. Opinions?
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Post by elliotja on May 12, 2017 16:19:17 GMT -5
Mount Wudinna or Kokerbin Rock would be better candidates for the Great Rock, as they are considerably nearer the coast.
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Post by senatortombstone on May 14, 2017 22:13:25 GMT -5
Per Wikipedia:
"IDW revived the original G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero as an ongoing series in 2010 with a special #155½ issue released on Free Comic Book Day, followed by issue #156 onwards in July 2010."
Would it not be awesome, Crom willing, if the stars aligned in such a way that Darkhorse commissioned Roy Thomas to do the same thing with CtB and SSoC? I am just finishing up the final issues of Ctb (via reprints), and it is such a shame that the series had to end so abruptly.
Don't get me wrong, I greatly enjoy Darkhorse's take on Conan, but it's just not the same.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 15, 2017 7:59:20 GMT -5
Per Wikipedia: "IDW revived the original G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero as an ongoing series in 2010 with a special #155½ issue released on Free Comic Book Day, followed by issue #156 onwards in July 2010." Would it not be awesome, Crom willing, if the stars aligned in such a way that Darkhorse commissioned Roy Thomas to do the same thing with CtB and SSoC? I am just finishing up the final issues of Ctb (via reprints), and it is such a shame that the series had to end so abruptly. Don't get me wrong, I greatly enjoy Darkhorse's take on Conan, but it's just not the same. Agreed, it's its own thing. I wish we could have a continuation of the Marvel Conan saga, complete with the supporting cast: all the Robert E. Howard characters as depicted in the Marvel books, plus Red Sonja, Juma , Zula and the others. I doubt it will happen, however, unless Cabinet Entertainment gets into financial trouble and Disney decides to buy the rights to the Howard characters. (The same for whoever owns the rights to Sonja). |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 15, 2017 8:05:58 GMT -5
Actually, in rereading The Shadow in the Tomb, there's no mention of Conan escaping Hyperboreans, just that he's on the run from some Vanir. This story could easily occur in his very early days prior to Legions of the Dead. I do maintain, however, that something must befall Conan between Thing in the Crypt and Twilight, as he looses the sword he gains in the former tale. It just works better that way to me than to try and stick it before Legions. Also reread the Skull on the Seas storyline, and again been considering the seeming errors in geography there, namely how Conan and co are able to reach Ayer's Rock, near central Australia, from the coast in seemingly just a few days. Well, straight after being separated from the Khitans and serpent men, Conan and the Thoth-Amon-possessed monkey are captured by the marsupial semi-humans at the same time as Conan's friends are captured by the serpent men. The next scene shows Conan being led by the marsupials into their tree-village, and a caption tells us that the Khitans and serpent men reach the Great Rock around sunset. Later one of the rainbow snakes tells Conan that the Great Rock is two days away from her cave home, to which Conan has gone the day after escaping the marsupials. But we don't really know how long Conan's journey between being initially captured by the marsupials and arriving in their village took; for all we know it was a number of days. It's a stretch, I know, but it would help a bit if we were to assume several days pass between scenes. Opinions? Back when the issue was reviewed, two hypotheses were put forward: first that the Australian coast was very different during the Hyborian age, and second that due to the power of the Rainbow Serpent, time flowed differently around the sacred rocks. Either explanation works for me, although the second strikes me as geologically more plausible; Uluru is very far from the coast. (It also seems fitting that time would pass as in a dream around the place... perhaps Conan and co. entered the dreamtime without noticing). The resting place of the Rainbow Serpent looks like Kata Tjuta to me. |
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Post by Rob Allen on May 15, 2017 14:26:25 GMT -5
A few months ago, Roy mentioned a looming assignment to write a Conan series for Dark Horse. He wasn't up-to-date on reading the current DH series, so he wanted to know where they were in Conan's life. This seems to imply that his new series will be in Dark Horse's continuity.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 15, 2017 17:05:08 GMT -5
A few months ago, Roy mentioned a looming assignment to write a Conan series for Dark Horse. He wasn't up-to-date on reading the current DH series, so he wanted to know where they were in Conan's life. This seems to imply that his new series will be in Dark Horse's continuity. Wouldn't that be the eagerly awaited Roy Thomas -Tom Grindberg Conan series? I really look forward to it! |
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Post by Prince Hal on Sept 1, 2017 17:12:12 GMT -5
Savage sword of Conan #112, May 1985  Cover by Joe Jusko, unrelated to the book's contents. Nice tiger on the right. Those underdressed ladies and Conan's phallic sword handle send all sorts of wrong messages, however. Table of contentsA dream of empire, where Conan meets king Yezdigerd once again Mitra defend us, featuring the Pict Shooz Dinj A pin-up of Bêlit by Gary Kwapisz Looks like an episode of "Conan's Angels." |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
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Post by shaxper on Dec 4, 2017 21:14:06 GMT -5
You gentlemen keep confirming your impeccable taste in fine comic-book art! I was more than enthused when I first read these stories many decades ago; I was entranced. I shamelessly copied BWS's Red Nails style in my own kiddie comics (hey, I was eleven) and when I started dabbling in watercolours years later, the mood from Worms of the Earth was one of my main inspirations. I can't say that marshes and fens are very typical of my neck of the woods, berk, but this other Bran Mak Morn piece by Windsor-Smith looks as if it could have been set in my backyard. It really feels like home.  I just read this issue tonight and instantly felt the need to return to this thread so that I could see what was said of Tim Conrad's work here. Holy sh**. What else has Tim Conrad done? I've never heard of him. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 4, 2017 21:18:39 GMT -5
Conrad drew an adaptation of Robert E. Howard’s Almuric in Epic comics (and it was also published as a graphic novel, as I recall). Also in Epic was his story about golems and hunchbacks, Toadswart d’Amplestone. He drew a short story for SSoC #8, and another in an early issue of Conan the savage. There must be more that I forget.
Conrad didn’t draw nearly enough comics, but they’re all worth hunting down! He’s quite a fine artist.
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Post by berkley on Dec 4, 2017 22:26:36 GMT -5
I'll have to look out for that Conan the Savage issue. I forget now - have you covered that series yet, whether in your SSoC review thread or elsewhere?
I remember that Almuric adaptation and I believe I had most of those issues back in the day. Excellent work as always by Conrad, but I thought his earthy style was perhaps not quite the best fit for an ERB-style planetary romance. Then again, it's been awhile since I read it and perhaps I'm forgetting how much of his own outlook REH brought to it. I do remember the hero was much more a Howard than a Burroughs kind of character (apart from the Mucker).
Toadswart, I think I only ever saw one or two instalments of and therefore never got a handle on what the story was all about. Conrad used a drastically different style of art on that one, IIRC. I've been trying to track down all the individual issues so I can read the whole thing one of these days.
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