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Post by coke & comics on May 9, 2015 13:30:40 GMT -5
Thunderbolts was a great title for a really long time...really until they started re-vamping it every couple years. I still think one of Marvel's biggest mistakes of the current era was not pushing Songbird as the next big female hero... when you look at how popular Ms. Marvel and Carol Danvers became, I think they really missed the book on Songbird (and, to a lesser extent, Jolt). I think the issue was Marvel mistook WHY Thunderbolts was good, it's not just 'Marvel's Suicide Squad', but rather the dynamic of a team that was half evil villains trying to trick the masses, and half villains that legitimately wanted to reform that was really fun and unique.. especially after Jolt got added as the innocent new heroine. Warren Ellis almost certainly didn't understand or appreciate why Thunderbolts worked. It's interesting to bring up as I'm reviewing New Warriors because it would feature the talents of both Bagley and Nicieza. There is all the difference in the world between New Warriors and Thunderbolts in terms of the quality's of Bagley's art, but it's all identifiably him, particularly his distinctive take on eyes, which didn't change much. And Nicieza was very much the correct successor to Busiek for the book, though as I said before, he's just not quite as talented. But his work on New Warriors showed he could handle a team of existing "B-list" characters. I think you make a fine point about Songbird, especially given her fine showing in Avengers Forever. A bit of a shame more wasn't done with her. I don't think Jolt had quite the same potential as a character. |
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Post by coke & comics on May 9, 2015 13:55:50 GMT -5
Deathlok #2 (August, 1990) by Dwayne McDuffie, Gregory Wright, Jackson Guice, Scott Williams  I'm being purposely informal with these reviews. Just fun things to get out fast. No structure to them. Not worrying about full credits or even giving issue titles usually (this issue is called "Jesus Saves"). But that here does a disservice to Paul Mounts, whose colors are likely a huge part of what makes the issue so gorgeous to look at. I had liked this comic 25 years ago, but had forgotten just how good it was. Distinguished from other comics of its era by actually having a writer in Dwayne McDuffie. (It's coplotted by Gregory Wright, who seems to be one of Marvel's stock editor-writers.) The only thing I can fault it with is a lack of originality. It takes Marvel's old Deathlok comic and retools the origin with ideas from Robocop. But that's not the worst crime. It may well be the best Marvel series of the year. A newspaper scrap fills us in on what we missed between the issues. A "robot vigilante" may be at large, or may be an urban myth. In this issue Deathlok makes a friend. We also see he likes cats. Ooh, and a cameo by Nick Fury. Nick Fury cameos were big in 1990, and in movies today. All leading to an epic battle at Coney Island. "I'm gonna call you 'Mike'" "It's Michael. Nobody calls me Mike." "I see. But 'Deathlok's' okay, huh?"
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 9, 2015 13:57:28 GMT -5
I agree on all counts.  . Jolt was(is? I guess she's not dead or anything) a bit Mary Sue-y, but still, there can never be enough female superheroes... I mean, when you can put them all on one cover (see A-Force), that's not really an even ratio. Songbird is a real mystery... I guess she was Busiek's pet project? Maybe if his run on Avengers continued? She was excellent in Avengers Forever, and her relationship with Mach-(insert # her) was really great. Obviously, Abner Jenkins was never going to be anything but a poor man's Tony Stark as a hero, but Songbird is pretty unique... I still have hope that when there's an Avengers book again (after Hickman leaves) and the Marvel Universe is put back together she'll actually get to be an Avenger. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 9, 2015 15:00:22 GMT -5
Thunderbolts was a great title for a really long time...really until they started re-vamping it every couple years. I still think one of Marvel's biggest mistakes of the current era was not pushing Songbird as the next big female hero... when you look at how popular Ms. Marvel and Carol Danvers became, I think they really missed the book on Songbird (and, to a lesser extent, Jolt). I think the issue was Marvel mistook WHY Thunderbolts was good, it's not just 'Marvel's Suicide Squad', but rather the dynamic of a team that was half evil villains trying to trick the masses, and half villains that legitimately wanted to reform that was really fun and unique.. especially after Jolt got added as the innocent new heroine. Warren Ellis almost certainly didn't understand or appreciate why Thunderbolts worked. Yay! That was so great! Which I 100% appreciated, because the run of Thunderbolts before it was in the 2% of mainstream comics (ish) I consider completely unreadable. Like, my eyes would just glaze over from the so-old-school-I'm-sure-I've-read-this-story-7,000,000-times-before-ness of it all. I believe you guys if you say there's some good stuff in there, but I'm sure I started reading at least 20 issues of Thunderbolts (because it's such a great concept!) and never felt not-bored after the first one. But I'm generally not a fan of Busiek-as-corporate-property-writer. Or that guy who came after him who's name I can't spell - although I did like the 1st New Warriors trade. Conversely, Ellis' Thunderbolts stuff was one of my four or five favorite Marvel runs of the '00s - A little bit of old school Stanish post-modernism combined with Joseph Heller-y black comedy? If only every people would fail to understand and appreciate every Marvel comic in such a cool way! Also - I am REALLY interested in Deathlok now. I just read the '70s Buckler run for the first time and loved it. I think there's a trade of the '90s stuff, right? |
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Post by coke & comics on May 9, 2015 22:11:48 GMT -5
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Post by coke & comics on May 9, 2015 22:25:33 GMT -5
I had considered reading Brute Force for this thread, but looking through my box, I seem to only own the first 3 issues of the 4-part series. I am a little surprised and saddened. Does anybody else ever get disappointed in themselves?
I will skip it, and stick with what we have on dock already.
Ooh, a Steve Gerber series is coming.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 22:28:25 GMT -5
I had considered reading Brute Force for this thread, but looking through my box, I seem to only own the first 3 issues of the 4-part series. I am a little surprised and saddened. Does anybody else ever get disappointed in themselves? I will skip it, and stick with what we have on dock already. Ooh, a Steve Gerber series is coming. Legion of the Night? -M |
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Post by coke & comics on May 10, 2015 3:17:02 GMT -5
I had considered reading Brute Force for this thread, but looking through my box, I seem to only own the first 3 issues of the 4-part series. I am a little surprised and saddened. Does anybody else ever get disappointed in themselves? I will skip it, and stick with what we have on dock already. Ooh, a Steve Gerber series is coming. Legion of the Night? -M Still a year away. |
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Post by fanboystranger on May 10, 2015 12:16:38 GMT -5
I had considered reading Brute Force for this thread, but looking through my box, I seem to only own the first 3 issues of the 4-part series. I am a little surprised and saddened. Does anybody else ever get disappointed in themselves? I will skip it, and stick with what we have on dock already. Ooh, a Steve Gerber series is coming. , right? One of my favorite minis. |
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Post by fanboystranger on May 10, 2015 12:19:42 GMT -5
There's also an Epic tpb of the first 18 issues of the ongoing called The Souls of Cyber-Folk. It's written by Dwayne McDuffie and Greg Wright, who was actually one of those assistant editors I mentioned before. Coincidentially, I picked it up from Amazon right before checking in here. I figure the McDuffie/Cowan stuff is probably worth it.
I would recommend the Epic tpb of the Casey/Manco Deathlok series, even if it contains one of the more nonsensical and terrible '90s X-crossovers in it. The Casey is stuff is worth it, plus in addition to art by Leo Manco, you have art from Ladronn, Eric Canete, and some of the last published work by John Buscema.
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Post by fanboystranger on May 10, 2015 12:26:42 GMT -5
Warren Ellis almost certainly didn't understand or appreciate why Thunderbolts worked. Yay! That was so great! Which I 100% appreciated, because the run of Thunderbolts before it was in the 2% of mainstream comics (ish) I consider completely unreadable. Like, my eyes would just glaze over from the so-old-school-I'm-sure-I've-read-this-story-7,000,000-times-before-ness of it all. I believe you guys if you say there's some good stuff in there, but I'm sure I started reading at least 20 issues of Thunderbolts (because it's such a great concept!) and never felt not-bored after the first one. But I'm generally not a fan of Busiek-as-corporate-property-writer. Or that guy who came after him who's name I can't spell - although I did like the 1st New Warriors trade. Conversely, Ellis' Thunderbolts stuff was one of my four or five favorite Marvel runs of the '00s - A little bit of old school Stanish post-modernism combined with Joseph Heller-y black comedy? If only every people would fail to understand and appreciate every Marvel comic in such a cool way! I like both of those incarnation of Thunderbolts, although I prefer Jeff Parker's run to Warren Ellis', mostly because I think Kev Walker is a far more interesting artist than Mike Deodato. The only T-Bolts I didn't like was John Arcudi's brief revamp. If I had to choose the best T-Bolts for me, it would actually be Fabian Nicieza's run. He came back from being EiC of Acclaim and became a much, much better writer, something he attributes to having edited Quantum and Woody. |
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Post by coke & comics on May 10, 2015 13:13:48 GMT -5
Ghost Rider #4 (August, 1990) by Howard Mackie, Javier Saltares, and Mark Texeira  The first story arc introduced two new villains, Deathwatch and Blackout, while also including the Kingpin for no apparent reason. Here, Ghost Rider tackles a classic MCU villain, Mr. Hyde! Now, Mr. Hyde is a fitting villain for Ghost Rider, as the Jekyll/Hyde story is the one underlying characters like Hulk and Ghost Rider. The story worked better with Johnny Blaze, who really was possessed by a demon. Dan Ketch so far has only turned into Ghost Rider at will, because this Ghost Rider really does seem to be basically a superhero. Far more controlled than his predecessor or the Hulk. Mr. Hyde himself isn't much of a Jekyll/Hyde story anyway, as both his sides seem evil. One is just more powerful. The issue is titled: "You can run, but you can't Hyde!" Get it? Let's see, opens with some racist types attacking a black family. Stopped by Ghost Rider. Talk of missing children. That story will continue next issue Dan fears he's becoming addicted to turning into Ghost Rider, so decides to ditch the bike by locking it up in storage in New York. He's abandoned it for like 2 minutes when trouble comes along and he decides he wants it back. We learn he seems to have the power to summon the bike to him. It's a superhero trope that intrigues me, how trouble find the hero. In addition to whatever miraculous circumstances made them a hero, villains often seem to wander in front of them and do evil. I go years without seeing the slightest evil. Even if I were a superhero, I would like never do anything. It's different if the hero goes out and finds the evil, like how Batman is patrolling. But Dan just went to a friend's parking garage, and there was a biker gang battling Mr. Hyde. And now I'm really going to complain. Because Hyde gets away. Just like Blackout got away a couple issues. You are on a bike. A really fast bike. And the large villain runs away. And that's the end of it? I think it's poor writing. Pages run out, battle is over, so Ghost Rider says, "the villain is running away. Oh well." It's possible I'm misreading the ending. Maybe off-panel Ghost Rider chases down and captures Hyde, and we just don't see it. I enjoyed these more as a child than I am enjoying them now. Perhaps that was just because Ghost Rider looked so cool. He does look really cool.
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Post by coke & comics on May 16, 2015 19:54:43 GMT -5
Spider-Man #2 (September, 1990) by Todd McFarlane  As with the last issue, the art is excellent and like nothing really seen in Spider-Man comics before McFarlane came to them. Panels all over the place, crazy borders, webbing for borders for the flashbacks, Spider-Man and his webs unbound by the borders. The action in the issue is a confused blur. Perhaps clear crisp action is not McFarlane's forte, or perhaps it is intentional. Some voodoo magic is clouding Spider-Man's mind as he battles the Lizard, and the comic creates a hallucinogenic rhythm. Even some touching on the basic themes of Spider-Man. Peter thought he could get away with enjoying a night off with his wife. But while he snuggled, Lizard was out killing. I think McFarlane could use a better scripter, but otherwise this is a great comic.
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Post by coke & comics on May 17, 2015 4:14:01 GMT -5
New Warriors #3 (September, 1990) by Fabian Nicieza, Mark Bagley, and Larry Mahlstedt  Genetech employs Mad Thinker and his assistant--the shape-chaning Primus--to help them manipulate the New Warriors. From a personal standpoint, I quite appreciate a comment in the Mad Thinker's opening narration. "I am in a science facility and all I see are suits and ties." One by one, the Mad Thinker confronts the Warriors, playing his mind games. Before doing so, we get a glimpse into the lives of each Warrior. Namorita is at school, taking a break from studying to go swimming. Speedball's parents are fighting. They don't know about his secret life. Night Thrasher is visiting Silhouette, who seems to want nothing to do with him. Kid Nova (When did that Kid get added to his name?) is living with, and arguing with, his father. Firestar is cooking her dad breakfast before going out with her friends. Marvel Boy is also fighting with his parents (seems to be a theme); his father read his electronic journal and learned he's become a superhero. His father seems prejudiced against mutants. We learn it's been 3 weeks since the Warriors have interacted. Nova wonders if there's still a team. By the end of the issue, at the urging of the Mad Thinker, they agree they are a team. The series begins to take shape with this issue, which is far superior to the first two. Bagley's art is much crisper. Perhaps Mahlstedt is a better fit for him than Williamson, knowing what to accentuate to fit Bagley's style. And the glimpses we get into the home lives of the Warriors is the beginning of the strong character focus I associate with this series, and that has made many Marvel team books so great. I'm not sure why Kid Nova's costume uses a wife-beater for a top.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,197 
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Post by Confessor on May 17, 2015 7:26:20 GMT -5
Spider-Man #1 (August, 1990) by Todd McFarlane 15 years later, it's actually quite easy to make fun of this comic. What's trickier is to notice that it's actually really good. Make that 25 years later! I think that the hate that McFarlane's work on Spider-Man sometimes gets leveled at it is somewhat puzzling, given that the way he drew Spidey was, as you rightly say, very Ditko-esque. I also think that he was the first artist that improved upon the way in which Spidey's webbing was depicted, since it was initially drawn by Ditko. McFarlane's web lines looked messy and organic, and have been an influence on pretty much every artist that has worked on Spider-Man comics ever since. However, I can see that there are a number of, what I would call, "artistic idiosyncrasies" to McFarlane's work that give it a somewhat "Marmite effect" -- you're either gonna love it or hate it. In this respect, he's not a million miles from the likes of Humberto Ramos, who I personally love, but some people seem to need to pour bleach into their eyes upon seeing his Spidey artwork. I also agree that the "Torment" storyline that opened the Spider-Man title is a really good and very atmospheric tale. I've no idea how good or not the following stories in the series are because I don't own any more issues until we get to the Clone Saga period in the late '90s. |
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. Jolt was(is? I guess she's not dead or anything) a bit Mary Sue-y, but still, there can never be enough female superheroes... I mean, when you can put them all on one cover (see A-Force), that's not really an even ratio.
