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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 13, 2016 21:17:54 GMT -5
Chinese aren't cheating when it comes to the trade imbalance problem: when the chips are down, they basically just produce cheaper goods. According to some analysts, the large trade deficit with China is more of a reflection of global supply chains, where China is often the final point of assembly for export-oriented multinational firms. Others say the large US trade deficit is an indicator that the trade relationship is unbalanced, unfair, and damaging to the US economy. This was Trump's whipping horse, he mentioned at every opportunity. Is it false? Well lets look at the damage. As calculated by the census bureau, at the end of 2015, the US deficit in trade was somewhere in the vicinity of $736 billion. #1 on that list. China. Doesn't look good for 2016 either. Doesn't the USA deserve a better deal? It isn't wrong per say, but it is unrealistic to imagine that you could make it any other way by force or hard talking. If you can make product X cheaper than country Y can then why are going to buy from country Y? And it's the same the other way around as RR already mentioned, most people simply aren't going to really pay more for products that are homegrown when they know they can get the same thing for less from elsewhere. In a lot of ways this is similar to the immigration issue; yes illegal immigration is an issue that's painful to many communities...but not only can't you force another sovereign nation build a wall to keep their citizens in and even if you could it wouldn't actually solve the problem. In this situation it's fair to say that because we are no longer a manufacturing based economy we're hurting ourselves in trading negotiations but saying that if we get hard with China then we'll solve the problem isn't an actual solution, just empty rhetoric. Because we value the health and wealth of our citizenry we will likely never be a world manufacturing power ever again which means we have to focus on another sphere of industry if we want trade deals to favor our interests more. I'm not an economist so I don't know what direction should be, but I know it's not going to be done by force. As an aside, I love your new user icon! You always make the best icons.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Nov 14, 2016 0:21:20 GMT -5
If you root for the underdog, you got to appreciate this video
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 14, 2016 6:38:28 GMT -5
Chinese aren't cheating when it comes to the trade imbalance problem: when the chips are down, they basically just produce cheaper goods. According to some analysts, the large trade deficit with China is more of a reflection of global supply chains, where China is often the final point of assembly for export-oriented multinational firms. For consumer electronics, it's certainly true. Assembly lines in China are cheaper than here. Unbalanced, absolutely true. China exports a lot more to the US than the opposite. Unfair, that's a matter of perspective. It is legal, that's for sure, and it obeys the rules of international exchanges that were set up by many countries, chief among which were the United States. Not everyone agrees that American-style liberalism is the way to go, though. It diminishes individual countries' control over their own economy, and it increases the power of Apple, Microsoft, Google, McDonald and Exxon. Damaging to the US economy, that's once again a matter of perspective. There has been a progressive shift in the US economy over the past decades. It produces a lot of high-end products which rake in gazillions of dollars... but that's for ideas, designs, and concepts, mostly. The actual physical things this economy produces are often built elsewhere. That means engineers, accountants, lawyers and programmers make a lot of money, while assembly line workers are out of a job. Overall, the money that comes in more than compensates for the lost jobs. The economy as a whole is healthy and growing. But that is scant consolation when you're out of a job because the local plant is closing. In the primary sector, the US still exports food. Its coal industry is however in dire straits, something that really helped Trump in certain states. That is in part because of environmental regulations that keep power plants from polluting too much, but also because of the price of natural gas that is coming down. To put it simply, coal is no longer as competitive as it used to be. (Choosing between coal and fracking gas is like choosing between Charybdis and Scylla, but economists don't care... nor do power plant owners). All of which to say... yes and no. In terms of morality, I'd say "no". The US made its bed and now has to lie in it. In terms of planning the future, would it make sense to reduce the trade deficit? Yeah, probably. I just don't see how it can be done without reinstating trade barriers, which goes against what all American presidents since Carter have been promoting. I'm not even sure it would be very helpful to the US economy, because trade barriers don't work one way. China is seen by some as an exporter that produces too many cheap products, but by others as a market of more than a billion customers. Should barriers be reinstated, it is possible that we'd get our apple sauce from local sources (to recycle my earlier example), but we'd also have to severely cut down the number of Coca-cola cans, cell phones and cigarettes we sell globally. I am curious to see how the Trump administration will handle that particular problem. He may want to rein in the trade deficit, but the Republican congress (which is mostly pro-business and anti-regulation) might not agree with his solutions.
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Post by Warmonger on Nov 14, 2016 10:10:13 GMT -5
If you root for the underdog, you got to appreciate this video Excellent I don't care whether you support Trump or despise him...the media coverage of this whole election was so blatantly one sided it's disgusting. The NY Times even wrote a letter of apology to Trump and announced in the paper that they promise to do a better job of remaining fair and balanced in the future...lol. Journalism has become a total farce in this country.
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 14, 2016 10:21:47 GMT -5
Excellent I don't care whether you support Trump or despise him... the media coverage of this whole election was so blatantly one sided it's disgusting.The NY Times even wrote a letter of apology to Trump and announced in the paper that they promise to do a better job of remaining fair and balanced in the future...lol. Journalism has become a total farce in this country. Uh, wrongt. Breitbart, for just one example, loved Trump, and now the alt right (read:neo-fascistic) website's top propagandist is Trump's right-hand man in the Whie House. If you loved Dick Cheney, you'll adore Steve Bannen. And are we forgetting Fox, CNN, with Corey Lewandowski on both theirs and Trump's payrolls, and MSNBC, whch for all its supposed liberal slant, bent over backwards to accommodate Trump (phone interviews, e.g.). I'm with you that much of the media was biased: toward ginning up the Entertainment Tonight aspects of the Trump campaign, toward promoting a horse race instead of investigating any of the headlines they loved to blare, and toward selling dog food, Metamucil and coper wrist bands and knee braces. Les Moonves of CBS said, "Trump may not be good for the country, but he's great for CBS." Oh, and for all those who said, "Don't worry, Trump will surround himself with good people." Seen one of them yet?
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,085
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Post by Confessor on Nov 14, 2016 11:56:28 GMT -5
OK folks, the moderating staff have decided to lock this thread temporarily. Things have been getting quite nasty here of late and the general atmosphere in the thread has turned a bit poisonous. There have been multiple in-thread warnings from the the moderating staff, but clearly passions are running very high on the heels of the recent U.S. election. That's understandable, but we feel that it's in the forum's best interests to close the thread for a while and then re-open it again, a bit further down the line, when passions will have hopefully cooled.
Thanks all.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Nov 21, 2016 12:03:11 GMT -5
Got a chuckle from something I read yesterday. The CEO of Starbucks was very vocal in his support of Hillary Clinton during the campaign. Now when Republicans are asked by the barista what is their name for the coffee pickup, they are saying TRUMP. This forces the barista to shout out TRUMP when the coffee is ready.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,085
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Post by Confessor on Nov 22, 2016 13:49:55 GMT -5
The moderators have decided to unlock this thread again to see how we go. Are we all up for some civil and polite political discussions? We're all mature and grown up enough to express ourselves in a civilized manner, without it turning into a poop throwing session or the atmosphere in this thread becoming poisonous, as it was before it was locked. Remember: It's OK to attack the policies or the politicians, but not your fellow posters, either directly or indirectly. If it turns out that people can't conduct themselves in an acceptable manner and in accordance with the forum rules, then the thread will be locked again and the individuals involved will be penalised. Nobody wants that though, so please...let's all play nice and have some good political discourse. Thank you.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Nov 22, 2016 20:12:46 GMT -5
It's all Bush's Trump's fault
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 15:40:00 GMT -5
I don't even know what I can say or do in response to this without violating some kind of rule here. ... It took me over four hours just to write this. ... What could possibly be going on here that would cause someone to do that? ... And why would they feel like there's nothing that can really be done about it? ************************************** Here's some cute girls with bunnies, because I'm running out words and it makes me feel better: Oh dear, that all seems a bit serious for a post on a classic comic forum... even in a politics thread. I wouldn't like to think this place is like that all all. People should be allowed to express their opinions and fears freely. -------------------------------------- I don't know much about US politics. As an outsider the election of Donald Trump as President is very interesting though, and we all want to know 'What happens next?' ! It can't be as bad as the media reckoned it would be I'd say, as the media reports seemed to be very one-sided over here in Europe. Fear of the unknown is a legitimate concern, but I reckon a lot of the rhetoric was just pre-election bluster and most of the election promises will either be watered down or not delivered. We do live in interesting times... but I don't like threads on forums to get too serious. So I hope nobody stops posting here because of anything above, that would be a shame... this place is cool.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 23, 2016 16:03:39 GMT -5
I don't know much about US politics. As an outsider the election of Donald Trump as President is very interesting though, and we all want to know 'What happens next?' ! It can't be as bad as the media reckoned it would be I'd say, as the media reports seemed to be very one-sided over here in Europe. Fear of the unknown is a legitimate concern, but I reckon a lot of the rhetoric was just pre-election bluster and most of the election promises will either be watered down or not delivered. We do live in interesting times... but I don't like threads on forums to get too serious. So I hope nobody stops posting here because of anything above, that would be a shame... this place is cool. Thanks, stevo! The Politics thread is about the only one where things get really serious. It's really mostly all about comics, with films and other pop culture items a distant second. I agree with you that a lot of Trump's pre-electoral attitude was blustering; the proof of it being that he's already back-pedalling on a lot of issues (and thank God for that). As for living in interesting times, don't forget... "May you live in interesting times" is supposed to be a Chinese curse!!!
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Post by The Captain on Nov 23, 2016 16:21:05 GMT -5
The Politics thread is about the only one where things get really serious. I don't know..."The coffee (and bananas) thread' can get pretty contentious, particularly when the Anti-Banana Leaguers show up.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 23, 2016 17:03:10 GMT -5
Okay, apparently Trump wasn't kidding about attacking funding for research on global warming.
That is a very, very, very bad idea. I mean, "let's forego the building of this ark, Noah, because the price of wood is likely to come down in a few years" bad.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 23, 2016 17:22:50 GMT -5
Okay, apparently Trump wasn't kidding about attacking funding for research on global warming.
That is a very, very, very bad idea. I mean, "let's forego the building of this ark, Noah, because the price of wood is likely to come down in a few years" bad. For a guy who kept talking about all the "generals and admirals" he had supporting him...he doesn't seem to want to listen to the U.S. military, which says climate change is a major national security threat.
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 23, 2016 18:22:32 GMT -5
Okay, apparently Trump wasn't kidding about attacking funding for research on global warming.
That is a very, very, very bad idea. I mean, "let's forego the building of this ark, Noah, because the price of wood is likely to come down in a few years" bad. For a guy who kept talking about all the "generals and admirals" he had supporting him...he doesn't seem to want to listen to the U.S. military, which says climate change is a major national security threat. "He just said all that to get elected." -- Insouciant Trump supporters "He will change once he takes office." -- Worldly wise Trump supporters "You take what he says literally, not seriously; we take what he says seriously, not literally." -- Haughty Trump supporters Our long national nightmare has just begun.
PS: You've all seen his choices for Education and HUD, right?
PPS: Slam, I envy your living in Idaho. Here in the Commonwealth, we won't have nearly as much fun saying, "See? I toldja so."
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