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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 13:35:02 GMT -5
I think my initial post did a pretty good job of explaining why it's fair, if it's wrong for them to persecute certain groups it's just as wrong for us to persecute people here who happen to share their faith, in fact that would be hypocritical . I never said anything about persecution. But I have heard muslims in the UK triumphantly shouting about 'Sharia in the UK' at their places of worship. I'm not a happy camper when immigrants can come to my country and say things like that.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 13, 2016 13:40:56 GMT -5
I think my initial post did a pretty good job of explaining why it's fair, if it's wrong for them to persecute certain groups it's just as wrong for us to persecute people here who happen to share their faith, in fact that would be hypocritical . I never said anything about persecution. But I have heard muslims in the UK triumphantly shouting about 'Sharia in the UK' at their places of worship. I'm not a happy camper when immigrants can come to my country and say things like that. to deny them their places of worship is persecution though, there's no ifs ands or buts about that. As for shouting about sharia law? That's the beauty of freedom of speech and honestly it's no worse than what you'll find being preached in Christian Churches as the evils of female reproduction rights and equality for homosexuals are commonly shouted about from the pulpits across the land with the same fever and rancor as those shouting for Islamic law.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 13:47:07 GMT -5
That's the beauty of freedom of speech Yes, freedom which is not allowed in those other countries that take full advantage of what is allowed in ours. I have friends who grew up in muslim families who decided, by choice, to abandon their faiths. US Laws, and UK laws, protect those women. Can't say they'd be afforded such privilege where their families migrated from. And they know that too.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 13, 2016 13:50:49 GMT -5
That's the beauty of freedom of speech Yes, freedom which is not allowed in those other countries that take full advantage of what is allowed in ours. I have friends who grew up in muslim families who decided, by choice, to abandon their faiths. US Laws, and UK laws, protect those women. Can't say they'd be afforded such privilege where their families migrated from. And they know that too. good for them I guess but I'm not sure what that has to do with allowing equal rights for all despite it not being offered else where.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 13, 2016 14:08:16 GMT -5
Peaceful anti-Trump demonstrators from recent LA Times. Not a US flag in sight, maybe it was already burnt. That picture is from June 3. Not terribly recent.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 14:25:21 GMT -5
good for them I guess but I'm not sure what that has to do with allowing equal rights for all despite it not being offered else where. Would you also agree about extending equal rights to countries who have huge trading surpluses with the USA but subject the USA to unfair trading practices in their own countries?
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 13, 2016 14:59:56 GMT -5
good for them I guess but I'm not sure what that has to do with allowing equal rights for all despite it not being offered else where. Would you also agree about extending equal rights to countries who have huge trading surpluses with the USA but subject the USA to unfair trading practices in their own countries? absolutely, we don't get to pick and choose who gets equal rights in our country based upon what those other countries do
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Post by DE Sinclair on Nov 13, 2016 16:58:45 GMT -5
I fail to see how injustices in other countries can be used to justify similar injustices in ours.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 17:19:17 GMT -5
Would you also agree about extending equal rights to countries who have huge trading surpluses with the USA but subject the USA to unfair trading practices in their own countries? absolutely, we don't get to pick and choose who gets equal rights in our country based upon what those other countries do I didn't mean people, I meant trading sanctions. China applies every trick in the book against US imports, but expects the USA to keep trading in its favour to the tune of over $500b annually. Is that fair? Or do you guys just like seeing your deficit grow every year?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 13, 2016 18:15:13 GMT -5
absolutely, we don't get to pick and choose who gets equal rights in our country based upon what those other countries do I didn't mean people, I meant trading sanctions. China applies every trick in the book against US imports, but expects the USA to keep trading in its favour to the tune of over $500b annually. Is that fair? Or do you guys just like seeing your deficit grow every year? Chinese aren't cheating when it comes to the trade imbalance problem: when the chips are down, they basically just produce cheaper goods. America is addicted to inexpensive products; in a society where consumption has been made the equivalent of happiness, Wal-Mart's low prices promise everyone (even people with little income) to be able to afford to buy tuff, and so to be happy. Meanwhile, China is not interested in our overpriced basic products; all they care about is our high technology. It'll be a cold day in Hell when China starts buying massive quantities of American blue jeans or t-shirts; they can make the same for a fraction of the cost. That's capitalism at work. My own region produces a lot of apples (just about the only fruit that will grow around here, on account of the short season) and we still import apple sauce from China for baked goods. Is it because we don't produce enough apple sauce? Not at all... it's because workers are paid so little over there that even considering it has to be shipped from the other end of the world, Chinese apple sauce is cheaper that the home-grown stuff. The only way to use our own is if customers are ready to pay more, and it will surprise absolutely no one to learn that as soon as higher price tags are involved, everyone's patriotic vibe dies down. This situation wasn't created by the Chinese. It was created by the open market minded nations of the west, who wanted to circumvent the trade barriers of other countries. And generally speaking it worked, as the US economy is still rising (as long as a George W. Bush isn't in charge). There are, however, domains that have been sacrificed to the profit of others. High technology is up, textile and steel production are down. Unfortunate workers who are saddened because their job has been moved overseas should be re-trained by the state to do something else, because those jobs are not coming back.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 13, 2016 18:33:47 GMT -5
I didn't mean people, I meant trading sanctions. China applies every trick in the book against US imports, but expects the USA to keep trading in its favour to the tune of over $500b annually. Is that fair? Or do you guys just like seeing your deficit grow every year? Chinese aren't cheating when it comes to the trade imbalance problem: when the chips are down, they basically just produce cheaper goods. America is addicted to inexpensive products; in a society where consumption has been made the equivalent of happiness, Wal-Mart's low prices promise everyone (even people with little income) to be able to afford to buy tuff, and so to be happy. Meanwhile, China is not interested in our overpriced basic products; all they care about is our high technology. It'll be a cold day in Hell when China starts buying massive quantities of American blue jeans or t-shirts; they can make the same for a fraction of the cost. That's capitalism at work. My own region produces a lot of apples (just about the only fruit that will grow around here, on account of the short season) and we still import apple sauce from China for baked goods. Is it because we don't produce enough apple sauce? Not at all... it's because workers are paid so little over there that even considering it has to be shipped from the other end of the world, Chinese apple sauce is cheaper that the home-grown stuff. The only way to use our own is of customers ar ready to pay more, and it will surprise absolutely no one to learn that as soon as higher price tags are involved, everyone's patriotic vibe dies down. This situation wasn't created by the Chinese. It was created by the open market minded nations of the west, who wanted to circumvent the trade barriers of other countries. And generally speaking it worked, as the US economy is still rising (as long as a George W. Bush isn't in charge). There are, however, domains that have been sacrificed to the profit of others. High technology is up, textile and steel production are down. Unfortunate workers who are saddened because their job has been moved overseas should be re-trained by the state to do something else, because those jobs are not coming back. exactly this. I mean, sure it would be nice if the economy worked in a fair and balanced manner,"we'll by x, y and z from you and you'll buy the same amount of a, b and c from us." But that's just not how it is and it never has been and never will
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 13, 2016 19:32:14 GMT -5
I didn't mean people, I meant trading sanctions. China applies every trick in the book against US imports, but expects the USA to keep trading in its favour to the tune of over $500b annually. Is that fair? Or do you guys just like seeing your deficit grow every year? Chinese aren't cheating when it comes to the trade imbalance problem: when the chips are down, they basically just produce cheaper goods. America is addicted to inexpensive products; in a society where consumption has been made the equivalent of happiness, Wal-Mart's low prices promise everyone (even people with little income) to be able to afford to buy stuff, and so to be happy. Meanwhile, China is not interested in our overpriced basic products; all they care about is our high technology. It'll be a cold day in Hell when China starts buying massive quantities of American blue jeans or t-shirts; they can make the same for a fraction of the cost. That's capitalism at work. My own region produces a lot of apples (just about the only fruit that will grow around here, on account of the short season) and we still import apple sauce from China for baked goods. Is it because we don't produce enough apple sauce? Not at all... it's because workers are paid so little over there that even considering it has to be shipped from the other end of the world, Chinese apple sauce is cheaper that the home-grown stuff. The only way to use our own is if customers are ready to pay more, and it will surprise absolutely no one to learn that as soon as higher price tags are involved, everyone's patriotic vibe dies down. This situation wasn't created by the Chinese. It was created by the open market minded nations of the west, who wanted to circumvent the trade barriers of other countries. And generally speaking it worked, as the US economy is still rising (as long as a George W. Bush isn't in charge). There are, however, domains that have been sacrificed to the profit of others. High technology is up, textile and steel production are down. Unfortunate workers who are saddened because their job has been moved overseas should be re-trained by the state to do something else, because those jobs are not coming back. Details, reasons and logic! Way to go, RR!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 19:56:27 GMT -5
Chinese aren't cheating when it comes to the trade imbalance problem: when the chips are down, they basically just produce cheaper goods. According to some analysts, the large trade deficit with China is more of a reflection of global supply chains, where China is often the final point of assembly for export-oriented multinational firms. Others say the large US trade deficit is an indicator that the trade relationship is unbalanced, unfair, and damaging to the US economy. This was Trump's whipping horse, he mentioned at every opportunity. Is it false? Well lets look at the damage. As calculated by the census bureau, at the end of 2015, the US deficit in trade was somewhere in the vicinity of $736 billion. #1 on that list. China. Doesn't look good for 2016 either. Doesn't the USA deserve a better deal?
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,085
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Post by Confessor on Nov 13, 2016 20:07:12 GMT -5
Doesn't the USA deserve a better deal? This a little besides the point, but in my experience, what you or your country "deserve" is largely irrelevant in this life.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 20:46:49 GMT -5
This a little besides the point, but in my experience, what you or your country "deserve" is largely irrelevant in this life. And then there's that little issue of a $20 trillion national debt. I'd say some prudent financial management is required or the proverbial sh*t hits the fan.
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