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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 28, 2018 11:33:22 GMT -5
The Captain, I've thought about you since I first heard about this latest massacre in yet another supposedly sacred, inviolable, off-limits place, knowing that you live in the Pittsburgh area and knowing that this would hit you particularly hard. Everything you write hear rings true and are clearly the words of a sensitive, caring person, but one who is equally pragmatic. Pittsburgh seems like a big small town from everything I've heard and read and the deep sense of community you express here proves that. As heart-wrenching as each of the massacres by which we mark time in our violent, gun-worshipping nation are, seeing one happen on streets you've walked and known all your life is just that much more devastating. Knowing you from your many thoughtful posts, I think that you will find comfort, and maybe even inspiration, this morning. I'm sure it will help, but I can tell you that you will feel the sting of tears in your eyes whenever you remember what happened Saturday in your beloved town.
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Post by beccabear67 on Oct 28, 2018 12:43:49 GMT -5
It's horrible that a bunch of old people in a synagogue become such targets. Just crazy. It was a preschool once though. We've had targeted things happen in Canada, no place is entirely above such things really, just usually it's a dumb kid being 'bad' and not so serious you hope. In 1990 Newt Gingrich put out a memo to his fellow republicans with recommended or approved words to use when speaking of democrats. It included "traitor" and "anti-flag" and so forth... maybe that's when things took a swing to the wannabe revolutionary? Also the weakening of the FCC ("job killing" regulations you know). You need a minimum of two parties to be a democracy though, I really can't imagine these people who want to see one wiped out. Fanatics tend to be the most motivated however. I see any sign of a fanatic I don't vote for them. Err on the side of boring and functional. Well, painful and sad news lately, if only we could expect the people who most need it to have really learned something this time? But experience tells me thought that I've thought that the last time and will again the next time. Divided we fall.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 28, 2018 18:22:40 GMT -5
The Captain , I've thought about you since I first heard about this latest massacre in yet another supposedly sacred, inviolable, off-limits place, knowing that you live in the Pittsburgh area and knowing that this would hit you particularly hard. Everything you write hear rings true and are clearly the words of a sensitive, caring person, but one who is equally pragmatic. Pittsburgh seems like a big small town from everything I've heard and read and the deep sense of community you express here proves that. As heart-wrenching as each of the massacres by which we mark time in our violent, gun-worshipping nation are, seeing one happen on streets you've walked and known all your life is just that much more devastating. Knowing you from your many thoughtful posts, I think that you will find comfort, and maybe even inspiration, this morning. I'm sure it will help, but I can tell you that you will feel the sting of tears in your eyes whenever you remember what happened Saturday in your beloved town. Pittsburgh is a great city, with people who have left to go elsewhere never really leaving it behind. Go to any city around the country and you will find a Steelers bar where former 'Burghers gather on Sundays to watch their beloved football team, because being one of us in the blood. The rest of the country wrote this town off after the death of the steel industry, condemning us to the scrapbin like other Rust Belt cities, but the same work ethic and community that made Pittsburgh a major player in the world for decades is what has enabled it to rise, phoenix-like, from the ashes. We're not perfect, as we still have some ugly racism ingrained in our city, but Pittsburghers will rally around one another like no other place I've ever seen, because we're the unwanted and the unheralded and all we have is one another. There was an interfaith rally in the city tonight, in our Oakland neighborhood (which is right next to Squirrel Hill and the home of a number of our universities), in the aftermath of this tragedy. The most striking moment was courtesy of the Islamic Center of Pittsburgh, who had already raised over $70,000 in one day to donate, when they volunteered to come to the synagogue and stand guard to protect the worshipers on Saturdays. That is America at its finest, not the hate-filled, dog whistle ranting of the unqualified, uncouth, uncultured, barely literate jackwagon in the Oval Office. People who should seemingly hate each other but who recognize that their differences are far less important or divisive than their similarities, which is as people of faith who worship the same God but in different ways, are standing united rather than letting the Divider-in-Chief tear at the fabric that holds this nation together. I'm hurt and sad and angry and I'm done just wishing things could change. I have two daughters that are growing up in a world that devalues peace, love, and compromise, and I will no longer let them see me sit by idly while the world spirals out of control. I've been passive for far too long but that time is over, as they deserve better, the Jewish community in Squirrel Hill deserves better, the migrants fleeing violence in Central America deserve better, and the poor and the widows and the orphans deserve better, so I have to be better. I have no idea where to start, but when I cast my ballot on November 6, there is no way in hell that a Republican running for state or national office will get a vote from either me (or my wife, as we are of like mind in this). It's not much, but every journey of 1,000 miles begins with but a single step.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 28, 2018 18:39:11 GMT -5
That is the redeeming grace of such tragedies, The Captain. We see the best in people, thanks to those who won’t stand for hatred and division. The imam of Quebec mosque’s (which was the target of a hateful massacre last year) was at a march supporting the Pennsylvnia victims today. A moslem siding with Jews! He symbolizes all the people who want to tell the haters among us that they will not win the day. We are humanity. We will prevail.
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Post by Rob Allen on Oct 28, 2018 22:16:17 GMT -5
I'm not a Pittsburgher like The Captain, but I was born there, and spent the first eight months of my life in the Oakland neighborhood. My father was born in Pittsburgh in 1925 and lived there until the 1950s. This tragedy makes me sad for my ancestral home. One thing I recall, and I apologize in advance for using a slur - my father once told me that in the old days, the 30s & 40s, he heard people refer to the Squirrel Hill neighborhood as "Kikes Peak". Has that nickname survived or is it in the dustbin of history? Anti-Semitism certainly isn't new, but it seems like the level of violence is new.
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Post by The Captain on Oct 29, 2018 5:39:49 GMT -5
Once a Pittsburgher, Rob Allen, always a Pittsburgher! We'll gladly claim you as one of our own. To answer your question, I've never heard a single person ever use that slur toward that neighborhood. My father said it once or twice while I was growing up as an example of what kind of opposition and hatred that community faced, as he lived there from birth through college and both he and my mother still have many friends in Squirrel Hill (my mother, although Gentile, is quite the mah jongg player and has been in a group for years with women my father went to high school with, so much so that she is considered almost an honorary member of the Jewish community).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 17:19:33 GMT -5
I really have had no words, just sadness.
but watching Sarah Huckabee Sanders cry crocodile tears at the press conference today, when her employer's words at least in part are what have driven this atmosphere in America has infuriated me.
if I have to find a positive? Trump's comment about armed guards (even if it was in response to a question), has my VERY pro-Trump (and very Jewish) Father, questioning. he simply cannot understand why anyone would think that a place of Worship requires armed guards, and is confused about "his guy" suggesting it.
when we saw him yesterday, he actually had flipped over from One America News (his preferred choice for the past few years) to Fox, as the coverage of Trump on OAN was starting to bother him.
so yeah. . hopefully he's finally losing some of his older Jewish supporters over this.
(and should mention. .his neighborhood - which in 2016 was an absolute SEA of "Trump" yard signs? Only counted 7 Ted Cruz signs -- and THREE Beto signs. . . so maybe there is some hope for Texas)
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 29, 2018 23:32:30 GMT -5
Speaking of Joe McCarthy's lost child, we've all seen this one, right?
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Post by The Captain on Oct 30, 2018 6:11:43 GMT -5
Super excited right now, as the screaming man-baby will be in Pittsburgh today to speak on the tragedy of this past weekend, even though our mayor and members of the Tree of Life community have specifically asked him not to come.
You just know he's going to turn this somehow to be about him. He's already upset that they said they didn't want him here, and he's angry that he's being blamed for stoking the fires with his incendiary rhetoric, so let's see how long it takes before he lashes out at "the media" for not treating him better and at others for not respecting him.
One more week, folks, and maybe we'll see that rumored Blue Wave become a Tidal Blue Wave that gets the Democrats both houses of Congress so maybe we can get around to impeaching Mayor McCheeto for gross incompetence and conduct unbecoming not the POTUS but any human being.
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 30, 2018 7:13:53 GMT -5
Super excited right now, as the screaming man-baby will be in Pittsburgh today to speak on the tragedy of this past weekend, even though our mayor and members of the Tree of Life community have specifically asked him not to come. You just know he's going to turn this somehow to be about him. He's already upset that they said they didn't want him here, and he's angry that he's being blamed for stoking the fires with his incendiary rhetoric, so let's see how long it takes before he lashes out at "the media" for not treating him better and at others for not respecting him. One more week, folks, and maybe we'll see that rumored Blue Wave become a Tidal Blue Wave that gets the Democrats both houses of Congress so maybe we can get around to impeaching Mayor McCheeto for gross incompetence and conduct unbecoming not the POTUS but any human being. I sure hope so.
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Post by The Captain on Oct 30, 2018 7:39:45 GMT -5
Super excited right now, as the screaming man-baby will be in Pittsburgh today to speak on the tragedy of this past weekend, even though our mayor and members of the Tree of Life community have specifically asked him not to come. You just know he's going to turn this somehow to be about him. He's already upset that they said they didn't want him here, and he's angry that he's being blamed for stoking the fires with his incendiary rhetoric, so let's see how long it takes before he lashes out at "the media" for not treating him better and at others for not respecting him. One more week, folks, and maybe we'll see that rumored Blue Wave become a Tidal Blue Wave that gets the Democrats both houses of Congress so maybe we can get around to impeaching Mayor McCheeto for gross incompetence and conduct unbecoming not the POTUS but any human being. I sure hope so. My second hope is that the moderate Republicans take a look at what their party has become and start pushing back instead of just going along with the more extreme factions within the party. Democracy only works when there are multiple reasonable options, but the hard tack to the right by the Republicans and the copycat push farther to the left by the Democrats now in progress will only serve to disillusion moderates on both sides and leave us even more divided.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 30, 2018 12:54:27 GMT -5
My second hope is that the moderate Republicans take a look at what their party has become and start pushing back instead of just going along with the more extreme factions within the party. Democracy only works when there are multiple reasonable options, but the hard tack to the right by the Republicans and the copycat push farther to the left by the Democrats now in progress will only serve to disillusion moderates on both sides and leave us even more divided. Because of the industry and the state I work in 90% of those employed in it, usually vote Republican under the impression that Republican will automatically support the oil and gas industry and Democrats won't. Of several I have talked to, they have openly expressed their regret for voting Republican in the case of this last election. While my anecdotal experience is a drop in the bucket of all the conservatives in the US, it does at least say some conservatives are recognizing a need to change their party.
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Post by Rob Allen on Oct 30, 2018 13:16:05 GMT -5
My favorite Republican blogger, Chris Ladd, quit the party in October 2016 and stopped using GOPlifer.com/ as his online home (the site is still there, and still has some interesting reading). He's now based at www.politicalorphans.com/ and is urging people to vote Democratic for the next few years in order to save the country and, he hopes, save the Republican Party from itself.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 30, 2018 13:34:37 GMT -5
I find the "both sides are just as bad" arguments to be increasingly tedious, and they have been saying this since Reagan. That there are still some "both-siderists" left after the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre is mystifying and frustrating. Before, if I was in a bad mood, I'd ignore them. If I had a few minutes to waste (and it's usually time wasted), I'd try to engage a little without being too harsh.
But yesterday, I started imitating a "moderate" in 1930s Germany. "We've got to stop making it Nazis vs. Jews! This is our country and we've got to work together. All this finger pointing is not helping when everybody is to blame. I don't like everything the Nazis do. But you've got to admit, the Jews aren't perfect!"
The "both-siderist" I was engaging did not come back. And nobody else on the thread thought I had gone too far.
I'm so sick of it.
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 30, 2018 13:46:46 GMT -5
I find the "both sides are just as bad" arguments to be increasingly tedious, and they have been saying this since Reagan. That there are still some "both-siderists" left after the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre is mystifying and frustrating. Before, if I was in a bad mood, I'd ignore them. If I had a few minutes to waste (and it's usually time wasted), I'd try to engage a little without being too harsh. But yesterday, I started imitating a "moderate" in 1930s Germany. "We've got to stop making it Nazis vs. Jews! This is our country and we've got to work together. All this finger pointing is not helping when everybody is to blame. I don't like everything the Nazis do. But you've got to admit, the Jews aren't perfect!"
The "both-siderist" I was engaging did not come back. And nobody else on the thread thought I had gone too far. I'm so sick of it. Well done!
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