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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 30, 2018 13:57:23 GMT -5
I find the "both sides are just as bad" arguments to be increasingly tedious, and they have been saying this since Reagan. That there are still some "both-siderists" left after the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre is mystifying and frustrating. Before, if I was in a bad mood, I'd ignore them. If I had a few minutes to waste (and it's usually time wasted), I'd try to engage a little without being too harsh. But yesterday, I started imitating a "moderate" in 1930s Germany. "We've got to stop making it Nazis vs. Jews! This is our country and we've got to work together. All this finger pointing is not helping when everybody is to blame. I don't like everything the Nazis do. But you've got to admit, the Jews aren't perfect!"
The "both-siderist" I was engaging did not come back. And nobody else on the thread thought I had gone too far. I'm so sick of it. Well done! Thanks. I used to think that the people pushing back were well-meaning, just sort of naïve. And I'm sure most of them were, up until a few year ago. I'm feeling pretty certain that anybody who's still pushing the "both-siderist" philosophy is not acting in good faith, they are diehard Trump World trolls. Or they might as well be.
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 30, 2018 14:26:25 GMT -5
Thanks. I used to think that the people pushing back were well-meaning, just sort of naïve. And I'm sure most of them were, up until a few year ago. I'm feeling pretty certain that anybody who's still pushing the "both-siderist" philosophy is not acting in good faith, they are diehard Trump World trolls. Or they might as well be. My questions when I do have the chance to ask someone who supports the conservative/Tea Party/rightist agenda (kill Obamacare, end Medicare, end Social Security/ go to a flat tax/cut government spending, dismantle every department but Defense, etc., etc.) is "What's the end game?" "What, exactly are you trying to achieve?" "What happens then?" I asked a particularly loathsome relative, whose political "philosophy" is simply another way of saying, "I resent everyone getting anything from the government except me," in the midst of an argument over the Iraq War whether he believed that the United States was based on a belief in "all for one and one for all" or in "every man for himself." I'm sure you can supply the answer. He's the same one who once was ranting about how blacks should be able to pull themselves up on their own, that w were doing too much for them. I asked him to imagine that when he died, the Christian God in whom he ostensibly believes told him that he could actually return for another life. "I'd do it," he said. "Oh, but wait," I said. "There's more. What if God told you that you'd be coming back as a black woman in America?" I asked him. "No way," was his answer. "I think you proved my inherent point," I said. He just moved on to the shrimp at the appetizer table at my mother's house, where he stuffed two into his mouth at once and then grabbed a handful and stuffed them into his jacket pocket. "By their fruits shall you know them." Or by all the shrimp jammed into their pockets. Naturally, he has been a Trumpist since Day One, with a Facebook loaded with memes about Obama's lack of patriotism and Mrs. Obama's being an ugly trans Muslim ape. No lie. He is the default Trump supporter that comes to mind every time someone says disbelievingly, "Who would vote for this guy?" My a$$h*le brother-in-law, for one.
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 30, 2018 14:39:52 GMT -5
False-equivalency update: Nikki Haley tweeted this late last night:
"I have struggled w/ what happened in Pitts bc it’s so similar to what happened in Chas. The country was very racially divided @ the time. We didn’t once blame Pres. Obama. We focused solely on the lives lost & their families. Have some respect for these families & stop the blame."
So-o-o-o-o true. Even though President Obama was such a well known supporter of white supremacists and was forever dog-whistling to them and asking his supporters to knock the crap out of anyone who protested him, and because he was always amping up racial division, like when he... and when he....
Oh, yeah, singing "Amazing Grace" at a funeral is akin to walking into a church, sitting in on a Bible study group for an hour and the suddenly shooting nine black people to death.
And he gave out cellphones to poor people, too.
And he wasn't born here, either.
"My friends, I give you the gentlewoman from the "great" state of South Carolina, Nikki Haley: moderate Republican, courageous foe of Trumpism, and the next great hope of the party."
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 30, 2018 14:50:44 GMT -5
It's a false equivalence and a non-sequitur and just complete both-siderist gibberish all in one statement.
Maybe just once, somebody in the "party of responsibility" could take some responsibility. Just for variety.
This is why I use quotes in the phrase Trump World "leadership."
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Post by beccabear67 on Oct 30, 2018 23:31:31 GMT -5
I find the "both sides are just as bad" arguments to be increasingly tedious, and they have been saying this since Reagan. That there are still some "both-siderists" left after the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre is mystifying and frustrating. Before, if I was in a bad mood, I'd ignore them. If I had a few minutes to waste (and it's usually time wasted), I'd try to engage a little without being too harsh. But yesterday, I started imitating a "moderate" in 1930s Germany. "We've got to stop making it Nazis vs. Jews! This is our country and we've got to work together. All this finger pointing is not helping when everybody is to blame. I don't like everything the Nazis do. But you've got to admit, the Jews aren't perfect!" The "both-siderist" I was engaging did not come back. And nobody else on the thread thought I had gone too far. I'm so sick of it. Weird, I was saying a similar thing about enough of this "both sides" jazz on another site earlier today too (because someone has said exactly that). It's like a parent with a couple of kids and they are both whining "they started it, not me" and the tired parent has to blame them both equally even if one really did most of the agitating and instigation. It's come down to that; a big dysfunctional family! Only I'd say Trump is more like a Dad you'd always be warned not to 'provoke' somehow. Bleh. Adolf It's-That-Man-Again actually did try to claim when his brown shirted marching morons were beating people and Jews in the street that he had insufficient control or influence over them! And as for parallels... could Rush Limbaugh be the modern Lord Haw Haw?
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Post by beccabear67 on Oct 30, 2018 23:44:51 GMT -5
The Pittsburgh synagogue shooter had a lot of anti-CNN and other Trump related stuff decorating his van. I don't see how anyone could deny he was a big fan emboldened by trump. I'm sure Trump will be using the "nobody loves ______s more than Donald J. Trump" line on this too. He had to go pay respects today because of all the rallies and other appearances he has booked the rest of the time, the heck with who didn't want him there right now! Everything is about him, and he's always the ultimate victim. The billionaire victim. Boo hoo hoo. We learned the stories of some of these people murdered, some really amazing people who added to the world and the U.S. Trump gave support to the sad tiki torch chanters and the like so many times over the last few years but won't wear any of it. I would be pretty happy for any number of minorities to 'replace' them actually, that would be good, thanks for that idea marching morons!
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Post by thwhtguardian on Oct 31, 2018 12:24:07 GMT -5
Man, I've said this several times before and each time I think it'll be the last but it's happened again...I'm simply surprised by the President's bold ignorance. "So-called Birthright Citizenship, which costs our Country billions of dollars and is very unfair to our citizens, will be ended one way or the other" And it just get's worse from there, as he's told by the Speaker of the House(a member of his own party you'll remember) that the president cannot revoke an amendment to the Constitution by simple executive order, to which the President responded. "Paul Ryan should be focusing on holding the Majority rather than giving his opinions on Birthright Citizenship, something he knows nothing about! It is not covered by the 14th Amendment because of the words ‘subject to the jurisdiction thereof. Many scholars agree." Except they don't, unless of course he meant to say many racist/nationalist scholars agree. The relevant section of the 14th Amendment(for those who may have slept through their High School Civics class) reads as follows: The President seeks to muddy the intent of the Amendment, but it really can't be any clearer in its purpose which was to prevent politicians from denying citizenship to those they thought weren’t American enough. I'd like to say once again that nothing could surprise me after this latest stunt but I'm now sure he'll eventually find a way.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 31, 2018 12:40:30 GMT -5
Man, I've said this several times before and each time I think it'll be the last but it's happened again...I'm simply surprised by the President's bold ignorance. "So-called Birthright Citizenship, which costs our Country billions of dollars and is very unfair to our citizens, will be ended one way or the other" And it just get's worse from there, as he's told by the Speaker of the House(a member of his own party you'll remember) that the president cannot revoke an amendment to the Constitution by simple executive order, to which the President responded. "Paul Ryan should be focusing on holding the Majority rather than giving his opinions on Birthright Citizenship, something he knows nothing about! It is not covered by the 14th Amendment because of the words ‘subject to the jurisdiction thereof. Many scholars agree." Except they don't, unless of course he meant to say many racist/nationalist scholars agree. The relevant section of the 14th Amendment(for those who may have slept through their High School Civics class) reads as follows: The President seeks to muddy the intent of the Amendment, but it really can't be any clearer in its purpose which was to prevent politicians from denying citizenship to those they thought weren’t American enough. I'd like to say once again that nothing could surprise me after this latest stunt but I'm now sure he'll eventually find a way. Let's keep in mind that he also prefaced this by saying that "The US is the only country with birthright citizenship." Well...except for the 29 other countries that do...constituting most of the Western Hemisphere. So he's...you know...lying. Of course any rational person knows that if Trump's lips are moving it's prima facie evidence that he's lying.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 15:44:13 GMT -5
I genuinely think that President Dumbass is one of the most dangerous men to have come into political prominence since the 2nd World War. Not for his polarising policies, but his relentless and shameless lying and denigrating of objective reality - I don't think there's been a more committed supporter of the Big Lie technique since Goebbels (though Cold War USSR, and to some extent Putin Russia) are fellow travellers. Anytone that so consistently ignores the truth in favour of bare-faced lies that support his world view is guilty of leading the country and by association and contamination the rest of the world, in a post-truth world where de facto dictators can say whatever they want and ignore all the law and evidence that contradicts them - it's a very very worrying and dangerous slippery slope. He may be an attention-challenged narcissistic imbecile, but the impact of his method of misrule is going to be siezed on as a playbook by populists across the globe.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 9:44:42 GMT -5
^ already has been. look at recent global elections
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Post by hondobrode on Nov 5, 2018 1:02:01 GMT -5
I'm taking Tuesday night off work and the g/f, another Dem, is coming over to party while we watch the results roll in.
Elections nights are holy nights at the Hondominium.
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Post by impulse on Nov 5, 2018 10:26:16 GMT -5
I'm taking Tuesday night off work and the g/f, another Dem, is coming over to party while we watch the results roll in. Elections nights are holy nights at the Hondominium. My enjoyment of this activity was shattered in 2016, though the Roy Moore election night restored a little bit of the joy.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 5, 2018 19:11:54 GMT -5
It’s nice to see wealthy people telling it like it is.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 3:06:35 GMT -5
For those eligible and registered to vote in the United States, Hellboy has a message for you... -M
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 6, 2018 7:06:14 GMT -5
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