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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 15, 2016 10:49:09 GMT -5
I bet those sailors were very glad that Democrats were negotiating for their release. If the Republicans had been involved in the negotiations, the sailors wouldn't have been released until a Republican president is inaugurated ... and that might be a very long time.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 15, 2016 13:14:17 GMT -5
Being an ex-sailor, I was greatly relieved to hear they'd been released safely so quickly. Given the political state of the world, it's a refreshing change that the sailors admitted to a mistake, Iran checked it out, and let them go. Just what would be expected in a sane world.
And, of course, the inevitable saber rattling by these people. How do they think the US would have reacted if a couple of small Iranian boats wandered into US waters? Everybody involved in this incident apparently responded reasonably, unlike these tools.
I'm not enough of an absolutist to say that a candidate must/should have been in the military, but I expect that anyone who might well be ordering soldiers to their deaths would have some understanding of the import of that decision. That would mean studying one's history at the very least. It's easy to order others to "make sacrifices," to go "into harm's way," to "keep us free," by demonstrating "uncommon valor" under the rationale that "this is what they signed up for." How hollow those expressions are when theu are flung around so casually by those with no skin in the game. Hearing Cruz bellow out about unleashing the nation's fury only shows how feckless and callow he and his Lilliputian cohorts are. Makes me long for the days of a peacetime draft. |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jan 15, 2016 15:42:44 GMT -5
Being an ex-sailor, I was greatly relieved to hear they'd been released safely so quickly. Given the political state of the world, it's a refreshing change that the sailors admitted to a mistake, Iran checked it out, and let them go. Just what would be expected in a sane world.
And, of course, the inevitable saber rattling by these people. How do they think the US would have reacted if a couple of small Iranian boats wandered into US waters? Everybody involved in this incident apparently responded reasonably, unlike these tools.
I'm not enough of an absolutist to say that a candidate must/should have been in the military, but I expect that anyone who might well be ordering soldiers to their deaths would have some understanding of the import of that decision. That would mean studying one's history at the very least. It's easy to order others to "make sacrifices," to go "into harm's way," to "keep us free," by demonstrating "uncommon valor" under the rationale that "this is what they signed up for." How hollow those expressions are when theu are flung around so casually by those with no skin in the game. Hearing Cruz bellow out about unleashing the nation's fury only shows how feckless and callow he and his Lilliputian cohorts are. Makes me long for the days of a peacetime draft. Not sure what you mean about longing for the peacetime draft. Is it your thought that it would increase the chances of the "feckless and callow cohorts" actually serving in the military that they so cavalierly risk? |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 15, 2016 16:08:00 GMT -5
The thing is that most of them found a way around the draft anyway...those that were old enough to have been subject to the draft. Trump had four student deferments then a medical deferment. Nobody can get a straight answer out of Carson. Bush got lucky and the army went all volunteer as he became eligible for the draft.
Cheney, possibly the biggest chickenhawk ever, received five deferments. His "boss" Bush the Lesser played around in the Air Guard.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 15, 2016 16:24:05 GMT -5
Not sure what you mean about longing for the peacetime draft. Is it your thought that it would increase the chances of the "feckless and callow cohorts" actually serving in the military that they so cavalierly risk? Well, when you have skin in the game, decisions to send people into combat are (or should be) that much more difficult. The way we regard our an all-volunteer/career military seems to be the same dismissive way many people regard custodians and other service workers. No need to pick up a tossed-away wrapper: "that's what the custodians are for." And I do think that the members of our military are disproportionately drawn from the ranks of the economically and educationally disadvantaged. Hey, it would be nice to think that young America's opposition to the Vietnam War was based on their idealism, moral principles and disappointment in their country, but self-preservation was also high on the list. People did not want to go. Vietnam was not World War Two, but still, every town was touched. My little hometown had three men killed in three years or so; one was a good friend's brother; all three were from the church my family attended. They were all draftees, as was a Navy man who lived four doors away and was was wounded terribly. Every night on the front page of the Newark (NJ) Evening News published a little box that listed the total casualties (on both sides) as well as the NJ casualites. And we did indeed watch the war in our living rooms night after night. That was no cliche. This is not to say that this long war in the Mideast has not touched many communities, but (and though I haven't checked this), I'm sure that the casualty lists and service records are disproportionately composed of men and women from the groups I mentioned above. Yet another proof that we are not defending our liberties, freedoms or way of life, but doing what so many other empires have done before us: ensuring survival. The powers that be learned two valuable lessons from Vietnam: no draft -- I always wonder how eager we would have been to go to war in 2003 had Dubya even breathed a hint of reinstituting a draft as part of our "national sacrifice" -- and no journalists, except as the government deigns them beneficial. (Grenada was the first great example of the latter.) |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jan 15, 2016 17:09:46 GMT -5
The thing is that most of them found a way around the draft anyway...those that were old enough to have been subject to the draft. Trump had four student deferments then a medical deferment. Nobody can get a straight answer out of Carson. Bush got lucky and the army went all volunteer as he became eligible for the draft. Cheney, possibly the biggest chickenhawk ever, received five deferments. His "boss" Bush the Lesser played around in the Air Guard. Agreed, unfortunately, as Hal notes below, the poor and those who can't afford educations carry the bulk of the burden when it comes to war, even with a draft. The rich often have ways around it. Not sure what you mean about longing for the peacetime draft. Is it your thought that it would increase the chances of the "feckless and callow cohorts" actually serving in the military that they so cavalierly risk? Well, when you have skin in the game, decisions to send people into combat are (or should be) that much more difficult. The way we regard our an all-volunteer/career military seems to be the same dismissive way many people regard custodians and other service workers. No need to pick up a tossed-away wrapper: "that's what the custodians are for." And I do think that the members of our military are disproportionately drawn from the ranks of the economically and educationally disadvantaged. Hey, it would be nice to think that young America's opposition to the Vietnam War was based on their idealism, moral principles and disappointment in their country, but self-preservation was also high on the list. People did not want to go. Vietnam was not World War Two, but still, every town was touched. My little hometown had three men killed in three years or so; one was a good friend's brother; all three were from the church my family attended. They were all draftees, as was a Navy man who lived four doors away and was was wounded terribly. Every night on the front page of the Newark (NJ) Evening News published a little box that listed the total casualties (on both sides) as well as the NJ casualites. And we did indeed watch the war in our living rooms night after night. That was no cliche. This is not to say that this long war in the Mideast has not touched many communities, but (and though I haven't checked this), I'm sure that the casualty lists and service records are disproportionately composed of men and women from the groups I mentioned above. Yet another proof that we are not defending our liberties, freedoms or way of life, but doing what so many other empires have done before us: ensuring survival. The powers that be learned two valuable lessons from Vietnam: no draft -- I always wonder how eager we would have been to go to war in 2003 had Dubya even breathed a hint of reinstituting a draft as part of our "national sacrifice" -- and no journalists, except as the government deigns them beneficial. (Grenada was the first great example of the latter.) I agree wholeheartedly with you here. I wish that decisions to send our military into harm's way were equally difficult whether it's their own sons and daughters, or those of strangers. But judging from how frivolously our service members are used sometimes, it's plain it just isn't so.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 15, 2016 17:12:02 GMT -5
The thing is that most of them found a way around the draft anyway...those that were old enough to have been subject to the draft. Trump had four student deferments then a medical deferment. Nobody can get a straight answer out of Carson. Bush got lucky and the army went all volunteer as he became eligible for the draft. Cheney, possibly the biggest chickenhawk ever, received five deferments. His "boss" Bush the Lesser played around in the Air Guard. So true, I know, and just further proof that the system can be jobbed. Don't get me started on Cheney. That he is lionized by so many is just beyond belief. |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jan 15, 2016 17:19:13 GMT -5
Vietnam was not World War Two, but still, every town was touched. My little hometown had three men killed in three years or so; one was a good friend's brother; all three were from the church my family attended. They were all draftees, as was a Navy man who lived four doors away and was was wounded terribly. Every night on the front page of the Newark (NJ) Evening News published a little box that listed the total casualties (on both sides) as well as the NJ casualites. And we did indeed watch the war in our living rooms night after night. That was no cliche. Very well-composed post (as always), Hal. Dick Cavett provided an insightful essay to the NYT on this very topic last Spring entitled "Will the Vietnam War Ever Go Away?" He reminds us of Barry Goldwater's opinion of then-current heavy bombing raids, "They're not bombing enough," a sentiment one can easily find expressed recently by people who should know better. As a counterpoint, there is the great Senator Wayne Morse, a largely forgotten figure, who sensibly and unpopularly stated, "We violated one section in Article F, another of the charter of the United Nations. We practically tore up the Geneva Accords. We have to face up to the fact that we cannot conduct a unilateral military course of action around the world without the world organizing against us. We’ve got to get out of Asia.” Here is a link to the entire (brief) essay should you wish to revisit this sad, significant chapter in our history: Will the Vietnam War Ever Go Away? |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 15, 2016 19:17:47 GMT -5
I would love to teach Ted Cruz the value of getting his butt kicked in each of the 5 boroughs of New York City. Plus Central Park for good luck. He actually made Donald Trump look good in that exchange. Unbelievable. What a bunch of clowns  |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jan 16, 2016 16:05:11 GMT -5
I would love to teach Ted Cruz the value of getting his butt kicked in each of the 5 boroughs of New York City. Plus Central Park for good luck. He actually made Donald Trump look good in that exchange. Unbelievable. What a bunch of clowns Bashful Benjy agrees with you:
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jan 29, 2016 19:14:08 GMT -5
So I've been watching coverage of the various Donald Trump rallies, where he apparently sequesters journalists in a kind of caged area to be jeered and booed by the crowd, where peaceful protesters are forcibly ejected by security to chants of "USA! USA!", and where he makes the shocking claim that he could shoot someone dead in broad daylight in the middle of 5th Avenue and not lose a single supporter, and I've been struck by a sickening and elusive sense of deja vu.
This all looks so familiar. Where have I seen it before? And then, just now, it hit me:
"If I had my way, I'd have all of you shot!"
Like most of the planet, I really enjoyed The Wall, both the LP and the film, as a work of fiction. As a documentary piece that describes the reality I currently live in, not so much!  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 29, 2016 20:31:17 GMT -5
I still think it's weird that people are acting like Trump is some kind of anomaly in the GOP. I don't think he's particularly bad for a Republican.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jan 29, 2016 21:16:26 GMT -5
I still think it's weird that people are acting like Trump is some kind of anomaly in the GOP. I don't think he's particularly bad for a Republican. Well, he's an anomaly in that he's managed to galvanize the base to reject the policies of the top members of the party and finally, at long last, to stop voting against their own interests.
Plus, he talks incessantly about building a "Wall." He's like that guy you knew in college who listened to The Wall over and over but never understood that building a wall was a bad thing.
I remain hopeful that he's trolling us brilliantly and that he will eventually peel off his mask, "Mission Impossible" style, to reveal a grinning Andy Kaufman who takes a broad bow and breathlessly exclaims, "T'ank you veddy much!"
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Post by the4thpip on Jan 30, 2016 5:53:28 GMT -5
Today's cover of Germany's (and Europe's?) highest circulation news magazine:  |
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Post by The Captain on Jan 30, 2016 7:21:54 GMT -5
I've never voted for a Democrat for president (voted Republican early on, then Independent candidates more recently), but if Trump is the Republican candidate, I'll have no choice. I cannot think of any person less-qualified or more dangerous to be president than him.
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