|
|
Post by Rob Allen on May 15, 2015 16:41:59 GMT -5
My point was that all animals, including us, have sex for pleasure. We're the only ones who do it for any other reason, like procreation. We're the only ones who know that sex is related to procreation. The rest are just doing it because they want to.
On the original topic, my wife said last night that as far as she's concerned, there is no monogamy when women are chattel. So monogamy was introduced into the Western world less than a century ago.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phil Maurice on May 15, 2015 17:16:05 GMT -5
On the original topic, my wife said last night that as far as she's concerned, there is no monogamy when women are chattel. So monogamy was introduced into the Western world less than a century ago. "A woman's place is in the House, and the Senate."
That's an interesting idea. I assume she's tying it to the acquisition of the vote, at least in the US. I wonder how much that socio-political agency changed the dynamic of marriage in the period immediately following it.
The most sweeping immediate change inaugurated by women's suffrage was Prohibition, I suppose. A horrifying and execrable concept (IMHO) to be sure, but evidently a necessary one, given the scores of women and children scarred by violent, abusive drunks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 17:16:30 GMT -5
On the original topic, my wife said last night that as far as she's concerned, there is no monogamy when women are chattel. So monogamy was introduced into the Western world less than a century ago. Not to mention that for a huge chunk of history it wasn't considered adultery for men to have concubines, visit brothels, or own sex slaves. Pretty much adultery was a man having sex with someone else's married wife or an unmarried virgin, who would still have been valuable property to her father. Adultery was basically the crime of devaluing a person's human property. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 17:17:20 GMT -5
On the original topic, my wife said last night that as far as she's concerned, there is no monogamy when women are chattel. So monogamy was introduced into the Western world less than a century ago. "A woman's place is in the House, and the Senate."
That's an interesting idea. I assume she's tying it to the acquisition of the vote, at least in the US. I wonder how much that socio-political agency changed the dynamic of marriage in the period immediately following it.
The most sweeping immediate change inaugurated by women's suffrage was Prohibition, I suppose. A horrifying and execrable concept (IMHO) to be sure, but evidently a necessary one, given the scores of women and children scarred by violent, abusive drunks.
It was short sighted, but no less so than the far more popular idea of banning meth. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 17:18:17 GMT -5
My point was that all animals, including us, have sex for pleasure. We're the only ones who do it for any other reason, like procreation. We're the only ones who know that sex is related to procreation. The rest are just doing it because they want to. On the original topic, my wife said last night that as far as she's concerned, there is no monogamy when women are chattel. So monogamy was introduced into the Western world less than a century ago. Yeah, I've seen monkeys and dogs masturbate and it wasn't to procreate. |
|
|
|
Post by Jasoomian on May 16, 2015 0:14:30 GMT -5
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,199 
|
Post by Confessor on May 16, 2015 9:05:58 GMT -5
My point was that all animals, including us, have sex for pleasure. We're the only ones who do it for any other reason, like procreation. We're the only ones who know that sex is related to procreation. The rest are just doing it because they want to. Hmmm...that's an interesting way of looking at it, but not one I agree with. I think an awful lot of the animal kingdom do it because because they are biologically and genetically compelled to, not necessarily because they enjoy it. For example, what a beetle or a spider finds "enjoyable" is so far removed from what we understand as enjoyment or pleasure, as to be essentially meaningless. Therefore, I don't think that you can say with any real meaning that "all animals, including us, have sex for pleasure." The difference with us (and maybe Dolphins and Pigs) is that we understand that we can have sex simply because it feels good, not just because we are genetically hard-wired to. |
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on May 16, 2015 11:24:50 GMT -5
There's probably very few male preying mantises or black widow spiders that would consider sex pleasurable. Just sayin'.
Cei-U!
I summon the post-coitus hors d'ouvres!
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 17:35:06 GMT -5
My point was that all animals, including us, have sex for pleasure. We're the only ones who do it for any other reason, like procreation. We're the only ones who know that sex is related to procreation. The rest are just doing it because they want to. Hmmm...that's an interesting way of looking at it, but not one I agree with. I think an awful lot of the animal kingdom do it because because they are biologically and genetically compelled to, not necessarily because they enjoy it. For example, what a beetle or a spider finds "enjoyable" is so far removed from what we understand as enjoyment or pleasure, as to be essentially meaningless. Therefore, I don't think that you can say with any real meaning that "all animals, including us, have sex for pleasure." The difference with us (and maybe Dolphins and Pigs) is that we understand that we can have sex simply because it feels good, not just because we are genetically hard-wired to. Bugs are pretty primitive, so are reptiles, but plenty of mammals seem to have sex for fun. I think when a dog humps a stuffed animal it's not doing it to procreate. Anyone who's ever been to a zoo can tell you that apes get super freaky and can spend all day playing with each other. Insemination would take minutes, 69ing for hours is obviously for fun. |
|
|
|
Post by Ish Kabbible on May 16, 2015 18:25:09 GMT -5
There's probably very few male preying mantises or black widow spiders that would consider sex pleasurable. Just sayin'. Cei-U! I summon the post-coitus hors d'ouvres! Its the after-sex behavior that's not pleasurable. Like when the human male never phones the female again, or just rolls over and starts snoring |
|
|
|
Post by Rob Allen on May 17, 2015 17:26:54 GMT -5
It is hard to see "pleasure" in the actions of insects, so maybe it's easier to think of their sex drive as a genetically-induced itch that they will do almost anything to scratch. The one thing you can be sure of is that they are focused on scratching their itch, not on creating offspring.
|
|
|
|
Post by DE Sinclair on May 19, 2015 8:26:10 GMT -5
I disagree only in that every open relationship I've ever seen, no matter how wrll planned and communicated, has gone down in flames with very hurt feelings on every side. As much as man craves sex, he also craves love, and I don't think he can get and hold on to both without monogamy. Every committed relationship I've ever seen has resulted exactly the same though. My maternal and paternal grandparents both divorced. My parents divorced. All my moms siblings divorced. As far as I can tell so have all her cousins and her one uncle I have any real recollection of. My father's brother never divorced, because he wasn't married, but he's no longer with the mother of his daughter. My cousin is split from the mother of his kid, and my sister is estranged, soon to be divorced. I'm sorry that all you've ever seen is couples that split up. I didn't have the best role models either, other than my maternal grandparents (never knew my paternal grandparents, they died when my father was young) who were together for decades. On the other hand, my parents split, but never divorced, and my mother lived with another guy and they were together for years, but fought constantly. But even with remarkably bad examples all around, people can succeed. My wife and I have been together, married and monogamous, for almost 31 1/2 years. So it can happen. |
|
