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Post by Ish Kabbible on Oct 26, 2014 18:43:25 GMT -5
I always wished that Larry Leiber wrote exclusively for Jack Schiff edited books all with Don Heck pencils and George "Inky" Roussos finishes. All my personel bad eggs in one basket
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Post by Rob Allen on Oct 27, 2014 20:07:15 GMT -5
It's interesting to note that half of the Frightful Four (Wizard & Paste-Pot Pete/Trapster) originated in the Torch strip before "graduating" to the main FF book.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 27, 2014 20:23:19 GMT -5
Incredible Hulk #4
Written by Stan Lee Pencils by Jack Kirby Inks by Dick Ayers Cover: I know there are two Hulk stories in this issue, but couldn't they have picked one and done a single good cover instead of a split cover, neither of which are particularly interesting. The coloring is somewhat less subdued though it still doesn't pop. But neither image is terribly compelling. The Story: (or stories) The first story opens in medias res with The Hulk strapped to a big Kirby machine and Rick Jones about to pull the handle, not fully knowing what will happen. We then get a page and a half origin recap for the fourth time in four issues. We then flash to Betty Ross who has determined that Rick Jones is the key to The Hulk and the missing Bruce Banner...genius. But Thunderbolt doesn't have time to listen to her because the “iceberg rocket” is being tested on a “rocket-powered Hulk”. It works and the fake Hulk is encased in a block of ice. It's science! Thunderbolt finally listens to Betty. He's not worried about one of the countries top scientists...but if it will help him get the Hulk it's important. So a squad is sent to retrieve Rick Jones. The squad arrives at the house containing Rick and the robot-like Hulk under his control. Rick sends The Hulk away (he crashes through the side of the house). One soldier notices it, but doesn't say anything, because they'd think he had “flipped (good briefing these guys got). After Rick is kidnapped Ross threatens to arrest him (on what authority we can only guess) if he doesn't produce Banner. Meanwhile, The Hulk is flying around. And...yeah...he's flying. I don't care if the captions say he's leaping. Jack is drawing him flying. Complete with changes in direction as he flies and swoops up and down. He swoops in and saves a bus stuck on a train track and later swoops in and retrieves Rick from an army jeep. While outside Rick's influence he reverts to the savage Hulk and menaces a movie set. We do get to see a “thunderclap” as he claps his hands together. He flies within range of Rick, comes under his control and rescues him from the army. They then go to the secret Hulk-lair and Rick uses the machinery to turn him back in to Banner. But that's not enough. Banner fiddles with the machine and makes it so that he can turn from Banner to the Hulk and back at will. With Banner's brain...but with a sinister edge. Banner turns back in to the Hulk and goes out gallivanting around. He saves a family from a fire, but they are frightened and a neighbor shoots at him. He leaps off with Rick back to the secret lab where he turns back to Banner. As he goes to sleep he worries that he won't be able to control the raging beast within. The second story starts with a splash of what appears to be an alien ship and face shots of The Hulk, Banner and Rick Jones. The spaceship lands and out comes Mongu. He challenges the Earth's greatest champion to face him in the Grand Canyon (very specific locale...that's a big place). He wants someone who can weld (not wield) a two-ton ax. Rick and Banner are watching this on TV. Banner then switches to The Hulk to meet the challenge. And he rents a jet to fly to the Grand Canyon. Upon arrival, The Hulk and Rick find that the ax is cardboard and Mongu is actually a Commie in a Mongu suit. They're there to trap the Hulk. A squadon of Commies are there along with Mongu. In addition to the Hulk thunderclap, he can now jump up and come down with extra force causing an explosion of force. He lets a grenade explode in his hand. Ultimately he subdues the Commies...but then lets them escape. When the army and other authorities arrive they decide Mongu was a ruse by The Hulk to make himself look heroic. Hulk turns back to Banner...and the status quo has changed again. Thoughts… A new issue...a new incarnation of the Hulk. There is no status quo in this book because it's clear nobody knows what to do with the protagonist. So why didn't Ben Grimm meet the challenge of Mongu? Yeah...I know. But really it's because we're still a few months away from having an actual Marvel Universe. Banner must have a fair amount of money to charter a jet. And why would they charter a flight to The Hulk? Why would Banner bring Rick along to fight Mongu? Kind of dickish to put him in so much danger. We have essentially an invasion of the U.S. by enemy troops and nobody knows about it. The spaceship is a disguised Mig and the rest of the squad come in a helicopter. Neither are long-range craft. So the came from somewhere and penetrated into the Grand Canyon without being detected. The plot. Ehh...there's nothing particularly good or bad about either story. They're just kind of there. . The Art: Decent looking art in this one. The Hulk really seems to bring out the best in Kirby/Ayers. The toll: The wall of Rick's house. One Mig. Grade for historic importance: D: I suppose there could be some significance to this incarnation of the Hulk Story – C - Art – B -
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 27, 2014 20:55:57 GMT -5
It's interesting to note that half of the Frightful Four (Wizard & Paste-Pot Pete/Trapster) originated in the Torch strip before "graduating" to the main FF book. And the Sandman's second appearance was in Strange Tales #115, just a few months after his debut in Spidey #4. (Sandman also fought the Torch in Spidey #18.) And he threw in with the others in FF #36.
I think both Sue and the Thing were involved in at least one battle each with the Wizard and/or Paste-Pot Pete during the Strange Tales run. So it makes sense they would consider the whole team as their enemies.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 27, 2014 21:00:14 GMT -5
When I got a reprint of Hulk #4 (a paperback that reprinted #1 to #6), I had already read #1, #3, #5 and #6.
I remember being very disappointed with Hulk #4. It's not a high point for Marvel 1962.
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 27, 2014 23:05:35 GMT -5
Hulk #4 provides a good example of why I think Larry Lieber has been (somewhat) unfairly maligned in this thread. These two stories are every bit as nonsensical and full of plot holes, and no Larry in sight. Neither Stan (who provided the plots for Larry's scripts, as the credit boxes were happy to remind us) nor Jack (whose work on The Fly and The Shield over at Archie just three years earlier demonstrated how trite and unoriginal he could be when not engaged by the material) seemed to be putting much effort into these early stories. You're still about a year away from them finding their groove.
Cei-U! I summon the waiting game!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 28, 2014 1:17:33 GMT -5
Oh I know. But there are glimmers in there. A couple of the early FF's are good. Amazing Fantasy 15 was very good. Hulk #1 was pretty good. But it's like they had zero idea what to do with the character after that. I think that, thus far, Ant-Man has consistently had the best artwork. For whatever reason Kirby/Ayers seems to work best in an ant's-eye view.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 28, 2014 9:21:19 GMT -5
Hulk #4 provides a good example of why I think Larry Lieber has been (somewhat) unfairly maligned in this thread. These two stories are every bit as nonsensical and full of plot holes, and no Larry in sight. Neither Stan (who provided the plots for Larry's scripts, as the credit boxes were happy to remind us) nor Jack (whose work on The Fly and The Shield over at Archie just three years earlier demonstrated how trite and unoriginal he could be when not engaged by the material) seemed to be putting much effort into these early stories. You're still about a year away from them finding their groove. Cei-U! I summon the waiting game! I think this is a fair evaluation. I think the combination of this being a more or less planned shared universe, and the world being more realistic and topical than DC's, were the catalyst's that sparked the creativity. This had to be more exciting to Stan and Jack as opposed to the faceless, generic settings they'd been dealing with up until that point.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 2, 2014 22:37:24 GMT -5
Journey Into Mystery #86 (Thor story) Plot by Stan Lee Script by Larry Lieber Pencils by Jack Kirby Inks by Dick Ayers Cover:
There's half a decent cover here. Thor flying is pretty dynamic. But the coloring of the rest of the cover causes it to fade out. You have to really look to see the villain. And the red word balloon doesn't work. That was an experiment that I'm glad didn't go much beyond this issue and FF 9. The Story:
We open with a splash that has Thor being menaced by three versions of Robbie the Robot while a bald dude (presumably Tomorrow Man) eggs them on. Not a great splash. From there we see the world of the future. Everything is peace and harmony and there are no weapons. But one scientist, Zarrko (why couldn't he be named Bill) isn't happy with that situation. He uses a time viewer to look into the past and find a weapon to steal. He's invented a time machine to go back to the 20th Century to steal a nuclear weapon and use it to enslave the future world. Meanwhile in 1962 Thor is helping the army with weapons testing. He chases an anti-missile missile. And then he agrees to stand next to a cobalt bomb to see if he can survive (what a he-man). But Zarrko fades in, in his time machine and steals the C-Bomb. Thor misses him with Mjolnir, but knocks off a small piece of the machine. Since the scientist doesn't recognize it, he intuits that it must be from the future (not outer space or a different dimension). And since there is no time travel in the past (except for Doctor Doom) he must be from the future. Thor calls up Odin who tells Thor that he can use his hammer to travel in time. He appears in 2262 where he doesn't raise an eyebrow. He finds that Zarkko has been back since last month and has enslaved the Earth with a single Cobalt Bomb. Apparently the people of 2262 are easily cowed. Zarkko finds out about Thor's presence and sends his guards after him. They don't want to go, but apparently can't figure out that the two of them could take out Zarkko while he's not near the C-Bomb. Thor is assisted by a mysterious stranger and uses him to escape a sinister trap that makes absolutely no sense, but uses the power of magnetism so it can do anything. Zarkko threatens Thor with a “Delta Electron Gun” (no explanation of where it came from in a society with no weapons) that will thrust Thor into another dimension. But Thor uses his super breath to escape. Thor is then attacked by labor robots who can lift Mjolnir but aren't water-proof. Zarkko tries to escape in a spaceship but Thor calls up a storm that causes it to crash. Luckily Thor is able to catch the C-Bomb before it falls to Earth and explodes...notwithstanding the fact that nuclear weapons don't explode due to impact. Zarkko survives the crash, but his memory is gone. Thor brings the C-Bomb back to 1962. We end with Jane Foster wishing she could work for Thor instead of Don Blake. Apparently her love for him was fickle, though I'm not sure what she'd do for Thor. Maybe take care of his fan mail. Thoughts… Not quite a credits box, but for the first time we get credits for Plotter, Scripter, Art and Inks. Definitely the first time the inker has been credited. And not the “signatures” we'd seen before. Deus ex Mjolnir again. Now it has the power of time travel. And while in one place it's implied that Odin grants this power at Thor's request, in another it's intimated that it's always had the power, but Thor just forgot. Speaking of Odin...how exactly did Thor know how to summon him. We just barely saw him in a cameo last issue. Now he's being summoned by Thor to help. At this point it still isn't really clear whether Thor is just Don Blake having changed or someone else altogether. Seems as if there should be an “Untold Tales of Thor” story to splain this. Why do time travelers always go in 100 year increments? 2262 to 1962. Strange obsession. Thor also has “super hurricane breath”. Hopefully he doesn't have super halitosis. Thor really is Marvel's answer to the Silver Age Superman at this point with powers that just show up at random as the plot requires them. 23rd Century Robots are worthy to pick up Thor's hammer. But they aren't water proof. Very odd. The 60-seconds until I turn into a human thing is going to get old. They drop a lot of C-Bombs in this story. There's some weird stuff happening at the C-Bomb test. First, one of the soldiers there is a dead-ringer for Thunderbolt Ross. If you look at page 3, panel 6, it's Ross or his doppelganger. Since we're five months from the first actual cross-over...hmmm. More interesting is the “test” itself. Thor is going to test the effects on humans of the C-Bomb. But he's clearly not human. And there's no way you can extrapolate what happens to him to humans. They need Banner there because the scientists there clearly don't have a clue. The Story. This is a pretty standard Sliver Age story. Nothing terribly exciting, but not actively bad. Yeah, it's not without problems, but they don't really make you want to be angry. It's just kind of there. The Art: Another decent outing. Still nothing terribly exciting. But passable. The toll: A number of 23rd Century robots. Zarkko's spaceship. Grade for historic importance: C+ First Tomorrow Man. Story – C Art – C +
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Post by MDG on Nov 4, 2014 12:29:16 GMT -5
The Wizard, like the Ringmaster and a number of other long-faced Kirby villains, is almost certainly modeled after John Carradine. Cei-U! I summon the famous phiz! John Carradine was one of a kind! He could give a great performance in a great Hollywood classic like "Of Mice and Men" and then he could play Dracula in a great genre film like "House of Frankenstein" or a not-so-great genre film like "Billy the Kid vs. Dracula." And then there's "Frankenstein Island," named the official worst Frankenstein movie ever made by at least one cult-film guide. ...
Based on some of the movies he made, I can't believe he ever turned down a role. My mother told me there was a period in the late 40s when she would be walking to Grand Central after work and always pass John Carradine on his way to a show he was in. He wore a big black cape and waved it around to make sure people would notice him.
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 4, 2014 14:08:14 GMT -5
John Carradine was one of a kind! He could give a great performance in a great Hollywood classic like "Of Mice and Men" and then he could play Dracula in a great genre film like "House of Frankenstein" or a not-so-great genre film like "Billy the Kid vs. Dracula." And then there's "Frankenstein Island," named the official worst Frankenstein movie ever made by at least one cult-film guide. ...
Based on some of the movies he made, I can't believe he ever turned down a role. My mother told me there was a period in the late 40s when she would be walking to Grand Central after work and always pass John Carradine on his way to a show he was in. He wore a big black cape and waved it around to make sure people would notice him. I'm glad he never turned anything down. There's a lot of movies, especially later in his career, where his presence really brightens up some rather dreary proceedings.
Have you ever seen "Red Zone Cuba"? (It's also known as "Night Train to Mundo Fine.") John Carradine isn't in it past the first two or three minutes, and it is really awful. But Carradine sings the song "Night Train to Mundo Fine" over the opening credits and it is surreal in its bizarre awesomeness.
I bet I can find a link ...
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 4, 2014 14:15:48 GMT -5
Presenting ... "Night Train to Mundo Fine" sung by John Carradine From the film "Red Zone Cuba," directed by Coleman Francis. (He starred in it too. He's the big guy with his head shaved running in the desert at the start and then crawling under the fence at the end of the clip.)
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 19, 2015 20:12:55 GMT -5
Strange Tales 103 (Human Torch story) “Prisoner of the 5th Dimension!” Plot by Stan Lee Script by Larry Lieber Pencils by Jack Kirby Inks by Dick Ayers Cover: There’s a fair amount to like about this cover. It’s one of the strongest so far. We get a nice Kirby alien city-scape in the background. Johnny seems to actually be in some peril. The laughing henchman in the foreground is pretty funny in a good way. The pink logo and the red word balloon definitely knock it down a peg, but one of the better covers thus far. The Story: Johnny has to rush to school and not be found out (still with the non-existent secret identity in his own book). Once there he overhears that a local builder is having trouble with the houses he’s building in a swamp (this is before any wetlands legislation) are sinking. Because there’s nothing that high school students talk about more in the hallway than who is the best home-builder in the area. At that very moment more houses are sinking into the swamp. The answer, according to old coot and future Scooby-Doo villain Old Man Jenkins is that it’s “Swamp Demons!” consarnit!!! We see strange figures around the build site and the next day more houses sink into the swamp. As this is clearly the kind of situation that requires super-powers, Johnny decides to check it out (having consulted with Reed, who suspects sabotage, but can’t help because the rest of the FF have “another mission”) . He flames around through the ground (because fire works that way) and can’t find anything wrong. Old Man Jenkins continues to assure us that it’s Swamp Demons. Johnny returns that night to do some sleuthing. He sees Old Man Jenkins coming out of a shed with two odd looking people and a strange machine. The machine emits a ray that softens the ground making the new houses sink. Luckily Johnny is there because it would never occur to a businessman that maybe he should have a guard on the property that keeps having problems only at night. The two strangers seemingly disappear into thin air, whereupon Johnny confronts Old Man Jenkins. Having been caught he throws away his mask revealing he's an alien and pulls a gun on Johnny who scoffs. But in the Marvel Universe “anti-matter electrons” convert air into a liquid chemical that douses flame. So Johnny is captured...but he's taken to the “Fifth Dimension”. If the alien had to do it over again...he's have just killed him. The alien dimension is ruled over by Zemu (a distant cousin of Xemu) and they are going to invade Earth...for...reasons. Doctor Evil...I mean Zemu, puts him in a tank of water prison to keep him as a warning to his people...because every tyrant has a liquid chemical prison hanging around. But Johnny is rescued by the lovely young Valeria, who is a member of the rebel alliance. Johnny agrees to help them take down Zemu and breaks in to the weapons arsenal...but doesn't really do much. Valeria and her father are rescued by him at the last second, only to be whisked away by the “power of MAGNETS!!” But Johnny melts them only to be faced with...fire proof tanks complete with asbestos bullets...because...who really knows at this point...none of this stuff makes any sense. Johnny whips up a tornado to dispose of them. Rallies the population to revolt and captures the tyrant all in three pages. Apparently there was a very small military that was completely dependent on fire-proof tanks. Valeria asks Johnny to stay, but he has to go home to his sister and friends, though he moons over her in class. Thoughts… We have aliens…almost Commie aliens and a Scooby Doo plot. That’s close to a trifecta. As with Journey into Mystery #86 we have more credits. Not a full credit box, but much more. J.I.M., though cover dated the month before, actually came out in the same month as this issue of S. T. We still have magic magnets. I can’t wait until they’re replaced by magic transistors. Again the Torches powers are entirely plot driven. While he burns out his powers all the time in FF, he never does in this story even though he's flamed on pretty much the whole time. We again have the flame face while his body is in water. And, while we did see him do a tornado of a sort in FF #4 this one is different and seemingly more powerful. The aliens of the Fifth Dimension (why the Fifth Dimension?) look like Atlanteans to me. Why do the aliens of the Fifth Dimension have weapons and traps that are aimed directly at The Human Torch. Asbestos bullets. Fire-proof tanks. The water trap that he’s put into. These are not the type of things your average everyday despot keeps hanging around the castle. On the plus side…Johnny doesn’t win this thing without the help of the girl. So that’s pretty cool. The Story. This is marginally better than the last story. Which is kind of damning with faint praise. It's kind of a silly meaningless story. Many issues...nothing terribly interesting. The Art: Is Kirby/Ayers. Not at their best. Not at their worst. Kirby does get to shine in the alien city design. The toll: Most of the very small military capacity of the Fifth Dimension. Grade for historic importance: D. It appears that we will have a return of Zemu, et. al. in the 70s, but overall this is a nothing story. Story – D+ Art – C.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 20, 2015 5:55:06 GMT -5
I wonder what nerdy comic book guys in the 60s argued about, when things as basic as the superpowers of the characters weren't consistent? There must have been at least a couple, right?
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
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Post by Confessor on Mar 20, 2015 6:20:06 GMT -5
Strange Tales 103 (Human Torch story) “Prisoner of the 5th Dimension!” I have this issue as a reprint in Marvel Tales #5, but I've not read it for a long while. That said, I seem to remember that there are some very atmospheric panels of the Torch investigating the sinking houses at night in the early part of the story. I do remember that the story goes from a fairly servicable mystery adventure into whacked out, sci-fi lunacy pretty quickly, but overall I enjoyed the heck out of this last time I read it. It's silly, yes, but it's gloriously silly, in a way that only Silver Age comics can be.
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