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Post by MDG on Aug 22, 2021 10:04:15 GMT -5
I wonder if the Thing's orange skin could have originally been due to a colourist's error or perhaps a simple random choice made in the absence of any editorial instruction? It seems like an odd choice for the rock-like monstrosity he was - how many orange rocks are there? Not zero, but it isn't exaclty the first colour that comes to mind when you think of rocks, stones, boulders, or what have you. The original concept of the thing was "dinosaur skin," not rocks, so orange kind've makes sense. Also, visibility trumped realism in coloring at the time.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 22, 2021 12:38:00 GMT -5
Thunderbolt Ross does not exactly inspire confidence. There are all sorts of lines like this F4 line across Hulk for years, especially at that 'milksop' Banner. Never mind that the dude is making like the most powerful weapon for the govt, he's a wuss. T-bolt does not really get a-hold of any 'feelings' really until the early 70s when Jim Wilson joined the title and he felt bad that Betty finally totally lost her marbles. Ross is a textbook narcissist. Unless someone exactly mirrors his personality (blustering, uber-macho soldier) they’re beneath his contempt.
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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 22, 2021 12:54:33 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #12 “The Fantastic Four Meet the Incredible Hulk” Written by Stan Lee Pencils by Jack Kirby Inks by Dick Ayers Letters by Art Simak Cover: (Kirby/Ayers) It's another gray cover. So very gray. At least this time it makes sense since they're underground. To the good, the Thing and the Hulk do kind of pop out. But the lack of action isn't much of a selling point. See any of about a hundred Joe Kubert covers for how to make this kind of scene look dynamic.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Aug 22, 2021 13:45:09 GMT -5
Thunderbolt Ross does not exactly inspire confidence. There are all sorts of lines like this F4 line across Hulk for years, especially at that 'milksop' Banner. Never mind that the dude is making like the most powerful weapon for the govt, he's a wuss. T-bolt does not really get a-hold of any 'feelings' really until the early 70s when Jim Wilson joined the title and he felt bad that Betty finally totally lost her marbles. I've been going through Hulk from 102 on the last few months (having read the original series and a good chunk of Tales to Astonish years ago) and I cant believe they kept Ross and his Hulk-hating obsession such a focal point of the series for soooooooo long. Yes, the character is softened a bit in the early 70s, but the repetition of it all can be mind-numbing. The Hulk mag in general was prone to being pretty static even compared to your average Marvel or DC book (random alien villains, Hulk/Banner globe trotting, the Leader in every 5th or so issue, etc) but dear God are the copy and paste Ross/Talbot/Betty scenes nearly every issue, year after year, such a drag on the title. I'm going to finish up Englehart's run and I'm not sure when I'll resume. I kinda want to at least finish Trimpe's run but that may be a while down the line. I collected Hulk around 82-83 and by then Ross had been somewhat phased out IIRC. When did that finally happen?
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Post by badwolf on Nov 9, 2021 18:52:10 GMT -5
Sue keeps referring to Johnny as The Torch which is weird. He's her little brother. She calls Reed by name. Odd. What struck me as I've been reading the omnibus is how they all call Ben "Thing." It's quite rude! Ben does call them out for it once, and I think afterwards they started using his given name more.
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Post by badwolf on Nov 9, 2021 18:58:59 GMT -5
The plot…well the less you think about it the better. Beyond the silliness of M.M.’s schemes and actions…there is the fact that his powers simply can’t work as they’re depicted. If he’s a master of mass hypnosis The Monster doesn’t actually move. It can’t actually reach into a bank and steal a million in gems. And one atomic tank is going to allow him to take over the world…yeah. Maybe that was part of the hypnosis as well, but how does it work on people who are only watching events on the telly?
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Post by badwolf on Nov 9, 2021 19:33:27 GMT -5
Apparently Simonson felt it necessary to bring back Thug Thatcher. I have no idea why. To be fair, he was killed off in the same issue.
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Post by badwolf on Nov 9, 2021 19:42:26 GMT -5
We are introduced to Iron Man in a cover that honestly doesn’t look that different from the monster mag covers from which ToS is transitioning. I just can’t see this one jumping off the cover at anyone. The splash is really just a second cover…actually maybe a bit more interesting than the one we got. And we get the sobriquet Invincible Iron Man. Even though I'm pretty sure I already knew WHO Iron Man was by the time I read this in Son of Origins of Marvel Comics, I still felt that tug of mystery from the cover. Bit odd but I like it.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 1, 2023 17:57:57 GMT -5
Amazing Spider-Man #1 “Spider-Man” (first story) Written by Stan Lee Art by Steve Ditko Letters by Johnny Dee (Jon D'Agostino) Cover: (Kirby/Ditko) It's still a pretty grey and somewhat monochrome cover. But Spidey and the Human Torch do kind of pop. And the idea that Spider-Man is being held by the FF does lead one to think this might be a book a kid would want to pick up off the newsstand. The Story:The splash page shows J. Jonah Jameson (who we are first meeting) and a number of hands pointing at Spidey and calling him a menace. Spidey himself is in a pose that only he and Steve Ditko could have come up with. The story itself opens with a three-panel re-cap of Spidey's origin (though Peter doesn't mention his culpability in Uncle Ben's death). We also find out that with Ben's demise Aunt May is having financial problems and can't pay the rent. Apparently they aren't getting any of that rice money. Peter tells Aunt May that he'll quit school and get a job but she insists Ben dreamed of him being a scientist. He then briefly contemplates crime, but can't bring himself to do it. He'll just have to go back to performing as Spider-Man. A few days later at school the kids are excited about going to see Spider-Man, particularly a blonde who seems likely to become Liz Allen. Peter preemptively declares he can't go (this kid is a whiz at social cues) which gets him declared a “bookworm.” After his performance his agent says that he has to be paid by check so there's a paper trail for taxes (damn IRS). Peter doesn't want to reveal his ID so he has the check made out to Spider-Man and then finds he can't cash it without ID in Spider-Man's name. Meanwhile J. Jonah Jameson (the Roger Ailes of the early 60s) writes a scathing article about Spider-Man that causes Spidey's agent to cancel his shows. That's right kids, people not understanding the difference between bad opinion and actual news is not a new thing. Jameson continues his tirade in various media making Peter wonder how the FF and Ant-Man manage to not have these problems. He tries to find a job, to no avail, and then sees Aunt May pawning her jewelry to pay the rent. The next day Peter attends a rocket launch that just happens to be piloted by John Jameson, the son of J. Jonah Jameson. Of course the flight goes awry and when they aren't able to drop a net on the capsule (I have no idea where the hell they dropped the net from). Peter puts on his Spidey togs and is given a “guidance unit” by some uniformed official, because, why not? He then commandeers a fighter jet, rides on the outside of it, webs the capsule (which is so far below orbital height it's ludicrous) and replaces the guidance system (conveniently on the outside of the capsule). John Jameson is safe, but JJJ decides it's all been a plot by Spider-Man to discredit his son. And the public eats it up, including Aunt May. Thoughts…The cover promised us the FF. But we have to wait to the second story to get to them. Apparently Ben didn't have life insurance. Shame on him. Let this be a lesson to you kids to provide for your dependents. While it's certainly not preferred, Peter absolutely could have been paid in cash for his performance. Or the check could have been made to cash. The more problematic issue would have been a 1099 form for the IRS. And I can promise you based on over 23 years as a criminal attorney...someone would have cashed that check. They would have charged a hell of a surcharge on it. But someone would have taken that gamble. The story introduces both J. Jonah Jameson and John Jameson. More importantly it establishes JJJ as Spider-Man's arch-nemesis. That's my take and I'm sticking to it. The population of Queens in 1963 was over 1.8 million but Peter runs in to Aunt May hocking her jewelry. Coincidence of Burroughsian proportions. Apparently New York City is the center of the Space industry in the Marvel Universe. Because it makes sense to launch rockets in the middle of the largest urban center in the U.S. The entire rocket sequence of the story may be the most ludicrous display of “Marvel science” we've seen. Or will ever see. The laws of physics simply don't work in the MU. A net drops from nowhere. Rockets orbit at a height that could no way maintain orbit. Jet fighters can reach a height to intercept an “orbiting” space capsule. “Guidance units” of a space capsule are installed from the outside of the capsule where they'd be subject to the friction of atmospheric exit and entry...and they control the parachutes on the capsule. Honestly the entire thing is absurd and could have been better written by a reasonably smart 6th grader. On the other hand, the public's willingness to eat up Jameson's bullshit rings 100% true. And it's something that simply hasn't changed a bit. The plot... I'll deal with the history of the book below. The story is weird. The first half of the story is extremely off-brand for a super-hero story. Not much happens really, but it completely sets the scene for what will come with Spider-Man for at least the next 200 issues. The action sequences however, are atrocious. Grade: B+ The art Ditko's art is frequently wonky as hell. But it absolutely works for Spider-Man. Grade: B+. The toll: No collateral damage Grade for historic importance: A. Not only is this the second Spidey, story we get so many elements that make the character honestly unique among super-hero comics of the time. Stan always talked about “super-heroes with problems.” But up to now that wasn't really true. With Peter Parker and Spider-Man that became fact. And this story was a huge part of setting those elements.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 2, 2023 8:12:34 GMT -5
I've always assumed that John Jameson's rocket was launched from Stark Industries' Long Island complex, which is how Peter could afford to go watch the lift-off. That aside, yeah, your criticisms are right on. Even as a kid, I knew the depiction of Jameson's "orbital" flight was bullshit. Cei-U! But the intro of Jonah was right on!
PS: Glad to see this thread revived, Slam!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 8:33:10 GMT -5
While it's certainly not preferred, Peter absolutely could have been paid in cash for his performance. Or the check could have been made to cash. The more problematic issue would have been a 1099 form for the IRS. And I can promise you based on over 23 years as a criminal attorney...someone would have cashed that check. They would have charged a hell of a surcharge on it. But someone would have taken that gamble. This is fascinating. I like to know about real-world interpretations of what we see in comics. Not quite the same, and I’m not the first person to ask this, but exactly how is the Batmobile insured? I did smile at your comment about New York City being the centre of the US space industry.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 2, 2023 10:26:45 GMT -5
While it's certainly not preferred, Peter absolutely could have been paid in cash for his performance. Or the check could have been made to cash. The more problematic issue would have been a 1099 form for the IRS. And I can promise you based on over 23 years as a criminal attorney...someone would have cashed that check. They would have charged a hell of a surcharge on it. But someone would have taken that gamble. This is fascinating. I like to know about real-world interpretations of what we see in comics. Not quite the same, and I’m not the first person to ask this, but exactly how is the Batmobile insured? I did smile at your comment about New York City being the centre of the US space industry. I’d say it’s not unreasonable to assume that the Bat-mobile isn’t insured. Bruce Wayne would just anonymously send payment for any damage he might cause as a result of negligent driving. It’s not as if he’s going to be pulled over and asked for his proof of insurance.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 2, 2023 10:33:23 GMT -5
I've always assumed that John Jameson's rocket was launched from Stark Industries' Long Island complex, which is how Peter could afford to go watch the lift-off. That aside, yeah, your criticisms are right on. Even as a kid, I knew the depiction of Jameson's "orbital" flight was bullshit. Cei-U! But the intro of Jonah was right on!
PS: Glad to see this thread revived, Slam!
That could work in retrospect but at this point we don’t have nearly enough info about Stark to come to that conclusion. And the gentleman that Spidey got the crucial gizmo from was in a military uniform. It certainly could be a joint military-civilian operation, but there are a number of rockets being launched awful close to New York City. We also have the space complex from FF #1 that was seemingly somewhere near New York.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 2, 2023 10:57:13 GMT -5
We also have the space complex from FF #1 that was seemingly somewhere near New York. It was established years later in Incredible Hulk #235 that Central City, the FF's original stomping grounds, was in California, a much more plausible locale for such a complex.
Cei-U! I summon the retcon workaround!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 2, 2023 10:59:18 GMT -5
We also have the space complex from FF #1 that was seemingly somewhere near New York. It was established years later in Incredible Hulk #235 that Central City, the FF's original stomping grounds, was in California, a much more plausible locale for such a complex.
Cei-U! I summon the retcon workaround!
i guess we’ll see how I feel about that when I get there. I’ll only be about 250 years old by then.
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