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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 17, 2017 9:24:02 GMT -5
Thoughts…It really makes zero sense for aliens from a distant galaxy to conquer Earth. Maybe they just wanted an unlimited supply of...Twinkies?
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Post by Ozymandias on Dec 10, 2019 4:56:43 GMT -5
And thus we end the comics cover dated February 1963. Marvel published 10 comics cover dated Feb. 1963. Four superhero books, four romance books, a western, and an Atlas monster mag. I would call this the end of the proto-MU. Why? Well, because I don't think it's any hyperbole to say that the books cover dated March 1963 ushered in the full on Marvel Universe. How is that for foreshadowing, True Believers? I wonder if it was Ditko's idea to reference the characters in other mags, as well as get the crossovers going. Up to this point, it had all basically been Stan and Jack, and they didn't deviate much from what had come before: monsters, aliens, weird science and mythology. What do we have so far?: - The FF, a new version of the CotU.
- Ant-Man, a happy ending for The Incredible Shrinking Man.
- Thor, a male version of WW.
- Hulk, a Hyde/Jekyll spin.
In the middle of all this, Ditko made a unique contribution that, for some reason, didn't get the green light right away. The only other character that had to wait, was Ant-Man, with the clear distinction that his was a self-contained story which wasn't supposed to continue. Once Ditko is fully onboard, the MU really kicks in, the FF appear in his mag the very first issue, and Kirby follows suite by spotlighting another one of his creations, in the FF. Things would accelerate from this point forward. We no longer had some characters that could just as well been living in different planets, we saw a constant flow of information trough the media, and their interactions became commonplace. I would also like to take the opportunity to compare Ditko and Kirby, even if up to this point, the former only had 11 pages against 600+ from Jack. The characters Kirby was developing, took a long way to reach completion, both visually as well as conceptually. Take the aforementioned role Sue was playing in the team. The very next issue, after Reed made such a "passionate" case for her presence, here's what he has to add: It would still take them 10 more issues to finally give her some real power. But this isn't an isolated case, other characters showed strange and since forgotten powers: Namor, Johnny, Thor, Ant-Man... Almost all of them were showcasing new abilities as the situation required. It would take time for them to settle into what has been since become the norm. Spider-Man, on the other hand, stablished his full set of powers in that original short story. The only one that's never been properly explained is the Spider-Sense and its related gadget. Other than that, we had all the relevant information about the character aptly summarized. And not just his public persona, home and school were there too in a much vivid recollection than we ever got for Johnny, in Strange Tales.
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Post by electricmastro on Dec 11, 2019 21:55:51 GMT -5
And thus we end the comics cover dated February 1963. Marvel published 10 comics cover dated Feb. 1963. Four superhero books, four romance books, a western, and an Atlas monster mag. I would call this the end of the proto-MU. Why? Well, because I don't think it's any hyperbole to say that the books cover dated March 1963 ushered in the full on Marvel Universe. How is that for foreshadowing, True Believers? I wonder if it was Ditko's idea to reference the characters in other mags, as well as get the crossovers going. Up to this point, it had all basically been Stan and Jack, and they didn't deviate much from what had come before: monsters, aliens, weird science and mythology. What do we have so far?: - The FF, a new version of the CotU.
- Ant-Man, a happy ending for The Incredible Shrinking Man.
- Thor, a male version of WW.
- Hulk, a Hyde/Jekyll spin.
In the middle of all this, Ditko made a unique contribution that, for some reason, didn't get the green light right away. The only other character that had to wait, was Ant-Man, with the clear distinction that his was a self-contained story which wasn't supposed to continue. Once Ditko is fully onboard, the MU really kicks in, the FF appear in his mag the very first issue, and Kirby follows suite by spotlighting another one of his creations, in the FF. Things would accelerate from this point forward. We no longer had some characters that could just as well been living in different planets, we saw a constant flow of information trough the media, and their interactions became commonplace. I would also like to take the opportunity to compare Ditko and Kirby, even if up to this point, the former only had 11 pages against 600+ from Jack. The characters Kirby was developing, took a long way to reach completion, both visually as well as conceptually. Take the aforementioned role Sue was playing in the team. The very next issue, after Reed made such a "passionate" case for her presence, here's what he has to add: It would still take them 10 more issues to finally give her some real power. But this isn't an isolated case, other characters showed strange and since forgotten powers: Namor, Johnny, Thor, Ant-Man... Almost all of them were showcasing new abilities as the situation required. It would take time for them to settle into what has been since become the norm. Spider-Man, on the other hand, stablished his full set of powers in that original short story. The only one that's never been properly explained is the Spider-Sense and its related gadget. Other than that, we had all the relevant information about the character aptly summarized. And not just his public persona, home and school were there too in a much vivid recollection than we ever got for Johnny, in Strange Tales. Yep, a sign from the baby boomer generation of the post-World War II era in which society seemed to get a little too comfortable with seeing women as being housewives with the baby at best, in spite of women having done more active jobs earlier on in World War II.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 16, 2020 12:50:55 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #39 (Iron Man story) “Iron Man is Born!” Plot by Stan Lee Script by Larry Lieber Art by Don Heck Cover: (Kirby/Heck) We are introduced to Iron Man in a cover that honestly doesn’t look that different from the monster mag covers from which ToS is transitioning. I just can’t see this one jumping off the cover at anyone. The splash is really just a second cover…actually maybe a bit more interesting than the one we got. And we get the sobriquet Invincible Iron Man. The Story:In a secluded laboratory we are introduced to weapons inventor Tony Stark who has turned “transistors” into magic. With the power of transistors our problems in Vietnam will be a thing of the past. Stark isn’t just a top inventor. He’s also a millionaire playboy with women hanging him in exotic locations. Meanwhile in Vietnam “Red guerilla tyrant” Wong-Chu has captured another village and wrestles all the men for its freedom, because that’s a thing that you’d do in a war. Stark goes to Vietnam to demonstrate his “transistors” which work so well they put the reds into full retreat. Unfortunately, nobody thought to keep a civilian from wandering around a battlefield where he triggers a trip-wire and blows everyone up including himself. He is captured and taken to Wong-Chu. Stark has been wounded and has shrapnel that is mystically migrating to his heart and will kill him in a few days. Luckily it leaves him well enough to move around and invent. Wong-Chu tells him he will release him if he invents weapons from a bunch of junk and gives him the famous Professor Yinsen (not a Vietnamese name), who hates the Reds to help him. Stark and Yinsen know that he won’t survive long so they invent iron armor that will keep Stark’s heart beating (and apparently stop internal bleeding) when the shrapnel migrates to his heart. Stark and Yinsen finish the armor but Wong-Chu is coming so Yinsen sacrifices himself so Stark’s armor can charge. Even though his armor is charged Stark has to formulate a plan. So, when Wong-Chu and his troops break into the lab Stark uses suction cups to cling to the ceiling so he won’t be seen. We know that Stark is the greatest inventor ever because suction cups NEVER work and his do…maybe they’re transistor powered. Stark’s brilliant plan is to put on a hat and overcoat…and then confront Wong-Chu and the troops after a dramatic reveal of his armor. Clearly he couldn’t have done that in the lab. Iron Man is able to defeat Wong-Chu and all his troops through the power of transistors which allow him to deflect any kind of metal, even lead. Along the way we learn that he has a “buzz-saw” in his finger (even though it’s not circular and looks suspiciously like a jigsaw blade. Unfortunately, Iron Man’s electric charge has worn down by the end of the battle as Wong-Chu is beginning to escape (why do I know this is going to become a recurring theme). So he uses his oil and a built in torch to blow up Wong-Chu. Yep…he straight up kills him. I’ll leave it to you to figure out how that got past the Code. Thoughts…Yay…now not every bit of Marvel science magic has to be radiation or magnetism. We have now added transistors the list of scienmagic things that make anything possible. It was a bold move to use Vietnam as a backdrop for this story. Obviously, the public view of the conflict was significantly different in 1963 than it would be in just a few more years, but given the use of fake Commie countries in past stories it was an interesting choice. In two panels we’ve already gotten more back-story and characterization for Tony Stark than we’ve gotten on Hank Pym in eight stories. And almost as much as we’ve gotten for Donald Blake. I guess it helps when you steal it from Howard Hughes. There are a number of pretty problematic racial issues in this story. Whether it was Stan or Larry that came up with the names for the Asian characters none of them are Vietnamese. And Wong-Chu has a definite tendency to drop articles in that oh so stereotypical “oriental-speak” that lasted far too long. On the plus side it never comes close to degenerating into full-on pidgin English. More Commies. But at least in this context they make more sense than just as generic villains. Beyond the fact that it doesn’t make a lot of sense for Stark to be in a battle zone, there must have only been a couple of people there for that explosive to take out everyone. His entire capture hinges on a series of events that don’t make a lick of sense. I’m not a doctor. I’ve never even played one on TV. But I don’t think that shrapnel travels about your body looking for your heart. And if it gets there, the lack of beating is going to come about from blood-loss because you have holes in your heart put there by jagged metal. So what I’m saying is…this is as magical as the damn transistors. Iron Man is able to jam Wong-Chu's loudspeaker and then take it over and broadcast. I'll maybe buy that. But that means that Stark either speaks Vietnamese or Wong-Chu's troops speak English and I'm having a hard time with either of those options. The Story. I know I ragged on this quite a bit, but it is honestly one of the better stories we’ve read so far and while certainly not as strong as AF #15 or Hulk #1 is one of the better origin stories. Within the context of the times it’s quite good. Grade: B+ The Art: I know that Don Heck gets a lot of heck. But the art here is super strong. Grade: A-. The toll: A steel vault door. A dirty Commie base. One dead tyrant. Grade for historic importance: A. It’s the origin and first appearance of Iron Man.
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Post by MWGallaher on Jun 16, 2020 21:01:11 GMT -5
After playing it up so big on the cover, I was really disappointed that they never really capitalized on Iron Man's power of walking.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 16, 2020 21:22:08 GMT -5
After playing it up so big on the cover, I was really disappointed that they never really capitalized on Iron Man's power of walking. He tried walking up some stairs but he was knocked down them by a file cabinet.
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Post by rberman on Jun 17, 2020 6:32:25 GMT -5
I would also like to take the opportunity to compare Ditko and Kirby, even if up to this point, the former only had 11 pages against 600+ from Jack. The characters Kirby was developing, took a long way to reach completion, both visually as well as conceptually. Take the aforementioned role Sue was playing in the team. The very next issue, after Reed made such a "passionate" case for her presence, here's what he has to add: It would still take them 10 more issues to finally give her some real power. Your point is well taken that Spider-Man had all his powers from the get-go, whereas many other heroes (including Superman) tended to pull new powers out of their hat whenever it was convenient for the writers. However, all of Spider-Man's powers had been seen in similar characters before. Spider-Woman had wrist web shooters in the Golden Age. Kirby and Simon developed "Silver Spider" with super-jumping and super-strength in 1954. Kirby's 1957 story "The Ant Extract" concerned a wimp who gained the proportional strength of an insect. Kirby and Simon's 1959 character "The Fly" was a wall-crawler with premonitory powers, and his first foe "Spider Spry" could shoot web lines and spin webs to entrap his opponents. Spider-Man simply brought all these powers together in one character whose costume was based on a 1954 "Spider Man" Halloween suit advertised nationwide at the time. Even the personality of "bookworm becomes an unsung hero" can be seen in Kirby's earlier story "The Crawling Creature" in Tales to Astonish #22. Also, don't pin the misogynistic dialogue from the FF panel shown above on Kirby. Tolworthy has made a very convincing case that Kirby consistently shows Sue as capable of handling herself (even before she could make force fields), while Stan consistently subverted Kirby's images with later dialogue making Sue subservient at every turn. Here are two of Tolworthy's examples of how Kirby's "Sue kicks butt" panels were subsequently changed into "Sue gives a man credit for victory" by Stan Lee.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 17, 2020 10:13:46 GMT -5
costume was based on a 1954 "Spider Man" Halloween suit advertised nationwide at the time Do you know where I could see that?
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Post by rberman on Jun 17, 2020 10:25:44 GMT -5
costume was based on a 1954 "Spider Man" Halloween suit advertised nationwide at the time Do you know where I could see that?
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 17, 2020 10:28:38 GMT -5
costume was based on a 1954 "Spider Man" Halloween suit advertised nationwide at the time Do you know where I could see that? Stating it was "based" on the Ben Cooper "Spider Man" costume is pushing it. You can see the costume and a write up here. There's a whole passel of speculation here and very little evidence.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 17, 2020 10:59:04 GMT -5
We could always say "loosely based".
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 21, 2021 21:11:33 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #12 “The Fantastic Four Meet the Incredible Hulk” Written by Stan Lee Pencils by Jack Kirby Inks by Dick Ayers Letters by Art Simak Cover: (Kirby/Ayers) It's another gray cover. So very gray. At least this time it makes sense since they're underground. To the good, the Thing and the Hulk do kind of pop out. But the lack of action isn't much of a selling point. The Story:Ben and Alicia are leaving a symphony performance when Ben is jostled by a passerby as an infantry troop passes on the street. Being the wilting flower that he is, Ben strips his clothes off and commits a battery on the feller. This leads the infantry to attack him because there's a “national alert” for the Hulk and they're looking for him and have mistaken Ben for the Hulk. Because the Hulk is allegedly attacking a military installation in the desert Southwest and they decide to attack the Thing, who's currently in New York City and has been on TV and in magazines multiple times. After the mistake is corrected (with a fight with the army) a petulant Ben returns to the Baxter Building where he destroys the FF's elevator door. The FF are visited by Thunderbolt Ross who wants them to destroy the Hulk who he believes is sabotaging military installations. The FF are initially unsure they believe in the Hulk even though they previously read a copy of Hulk #1. The boys go into a few pages of dick-wagging and boasting about which one will take down the Hulk. Sue is just scared and sure she'll be useless. Luckily she can be a cheerleader and boost their morale. They take the new Fantasti-car across country where they meet with Bruce Banner, who is sure that the Sabotage is being perpetrated by “The Wrecker”...for reasons. We also meet Karl Kort, aka, Chekov's lab assistant. On the way out Kort loses his wallet, which ends up with Rick Jones. Jones looks through it when he's trying to return it and finds out Kort is a card-carrying subversive. Meanwhile, Ben and Johnny tear up Ross' office because they're essentially toddlers and there hasn't been a fight scene for a couple of pages. The FF wreck a military prototype testing it while it's been sabotaged and Banner finds that Rick, who has been captured by Kort, is missing. He asks the FF to find Rick because he's sure The Wrecker has him. They decline so he's forced to turn in to the Hulk. This leads to the very first fight between the Hulk and the FF. Four pages worth of fight before Hulk is taken down by a “ray” from The Wrecker. Ben finds Kort's lair and takes him down, freeing Rick. Banner was right all along. Thoughts…Okay. The big one is that this is the birth of the MU as a shared universe. This is a full on crossover. The FF will also have a cameo in another story that we'll look at next, but this is the real thing. A crossover the likes of which we haven't seen at Atlas/Marvel since the Golden Age. Hulk only has one more issue of his own comic left and I have to wonder if this was an attempt to juice up sales a bit. Oh look, Ben commits another battery and more malicious injury to property because he got jostled. Dude is almost as big a menace as the Hulk. In this issue he's more of a menace. Sue gets so scared from newsreel footage of the Hulk that she involuntarily turns invisible. And she wonders why the readers think she's useless. The new improved Fantasti-car is a distinct upgrade from the flying bathtub. The “fans writing in” is wearing thin. As is the “fact” that Reed asked that it not be revealed how fast it is. Johnny's flame can pick up a wallet without singeing it. Because at this point they can do anything. A saboteur who carries a card that identifies him as a member of a subversive group. Sure...that makes all the sense. Oh look...it's Commies again. I'm still waiting for Commie aliens. Thunderbolt Ross has a bound collection of telephone books. No wonder he's after the Hulk all the time. Dude is bored out of his mind. The Hulk can now spin like a whirlwind. Because, why not. Let everyone have every power. The plot... I'll deal with the history of the book below. The story is pretty so-so. There's a lot of just dumb stuff. But it's maybe better than average for what we've had so far. Grade: C+ The art...Marginally better than average. Grade: C+. The toll: One fire hydrant with attendant water damage. One wacky army weapon. The door to the FF's elevator. The door to Ross' office. Ross' bound collection of telephone books. Rocket Sled X2A-17. One ghost town (maybe not such a loss). A giant robot and the door to The Wrecker's lair (fair). Grade for historic importance: This is the true birth of the shared Marvel Universe. A hugely important issue. Grade: A
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Post by Calidore on Aug 21, 2021 23:38:37 GMT -5
DAMN!
Here's a What If: The chauvinism of the men drives Sue to go all sympathetic tweener-villain like Namor and Magneto.
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Post by berkley on Aug 21, 2021 23:47:35 GMT -5
I wonder if the Thing's orange skin could have originally been due to a colourist's error or perhaps a simple random choice made in the absence of any editorial instruction? It seems like an odd choice for the rock-like monstrosity he was - how many orange rocks are there? Not zero, but it isn't exaclty the first colour that comes to mind when you think of rocks, stones, boulders, or what have you.
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Post by earl on Aug 22, 2021 2:04:28 GMT -5
Thunderbolt Ross does not exactly inspire confidence. There are all sorts of lines like this F4 line across Hulk for years, especially at that 'milksop' Banner. Never mind that the dude is making like the most powerful weapon for the govt, he's a wuss. T-bolt does not really get a-hold of any 'feelings' really until the early 70s when Jim Wilson joined the title and he felt bad that Betty finally totally lost her marbles.
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