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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 12:37:06 GMT -5
Slave Labor Graphics was founded in '86 by Dan Vado. Starlin did some stuff there (Wyrd, the Reluctant Warrior and released the first trade collections of Metamorphosis Odyssey/Dreadstar through them. They have a long and varied publishing history. ( wikilist of books) Ait/Planet Lar might be considered, Larry Young's publishinghouse started in '99, with such books as Astronauts in Trouble, Colonia, Planet of the Capes, collected editions of things like Shatter (first done at First) etc. -M |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 1, 2015 12:38:05 GMT -5
No, they were always a part of Marvel. I'm kinda okay with them being on the list as creators could take their work to other publishers or self-publish without penalty as long as it did not include Marvel characters or elements of the Marvel Universe. Yeah, but they also had Elektra Assassin and a series of Tomb of Dracula under Epic, so I think it's better to leave them off, otherwise the differences between Epic and Vertigo would be getting arbitrary. I think Epic is more amorphous than Vertigo, but I leave it to the group to discuss. Should Big Two imprints be eligible? In my mind, Vertigo and Epic both had their own identities apart from the core Big Two, but I leave it to you folks to convince me either way on this. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Jul 1, 2015 12:39:23 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of Wildstorm, but I think they should be removed: they either were part of Image (already on the list and other Image studio's aren't) or DC. But, until the Nu52 in 2011, they functioned as their own entity with their own unique brand and flavor within both the DC and image organizations. Quantum and Woody aside, did they have any output that would cause someone to vote for them here? Unfamiliar with this. Enlighten me. I know Scott Pilgrim. What else have they done? It was owned and run by Marvel, but functioned as its own unique brand. Ya know, I wonder if Star comics should be eligible using the same rationale? Slave Labor had Sara Dyer's Action Girl, Evan Dorkin's Dork, Hectic Planet and Milk&Cheese and Brubaker's Lowlife. (and many other series I'm not familiar with). Oni Press had Gail Simone's first work, published Allred's Madman for a bit (after Dark Horse, before Image), Judd Winnick's Barry Ween, Dan Brereton Nocturnals (though now I look it up, they might have been only reprints), Rucka's Queen and Country and various others. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 12:40:40 GMT -5
Yeah, but they also had Elektra Assassin and a series of Tomb of Dracula under Epic, so I think it's better to leave them off, otherwise the differences between Epic and Vertigo would be getting arbitrary. I think Epic is more amorphous than Vertigo, but I leave it to the group to discuss. Should Big Two imprints be eligible? In my mind, Vertigo and Epic both had their own identities apart from the core Big Two, but I leave it to you folks to change my mind on this. My take-if this is a survey of publishers, neither Epic nor Vertigo were publishers, they were imprints of the big 2 publishers, which defeats the stated goal of voting for best non-big 2 publisher. Wildstorm is the same for me-not a publisher, but an imprint. -M |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 1, 2015 12:42:51 GMT -5
I think Epic is more amorphous than Vertigo, but I leave it to the group to discuss. Should Big Two imprints be eligible? In my mind, Vertigo and Epic both had their own identities apart from the core Big Two, but I leave it to you folks to change my mind on this. My take-if this is a survey of publishers, neither Epic nor Vertigo were publishers, they were imprints of the big 2 publishers, which defeats the stated goal of voting for best non-big 2 publisher. Wildstorm is the same for me-not a publisher, but an imprint. -M Semantically, you're correct, but I suspect we're less interested in the best printer and shipper of books, and more with the best creator/editor/overseer of books. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 12:44:51 GMT -5
Another I will suggest is Starblaze Graphics-who produced a number of GNs and collections in the 80s, things like the Thieves World GN I reviewed in the From the Sorcerer's Scroll thread, MythAdventures, the early Magebook collections of Matt Wagner's series, sci-fi GN adaptations like Gate of Ivrel etc.
-M
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 1, 2015 12:49:56 GMT -5
From the Sorcerer's Scroll thread Speaking of which, I really miss that thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 12:49:58 GMT -5
My take-if this is a survey of publishers, neither Epic nor Vertigo were publishers, they were imprints of the big 2 publishers, which defeats the stated goal of voting for best non-big 2 publisher. Wildstorm is the same for me-not a publisher, but an imprint. -M Semantically, you're correct, but I suspect we're less interested in the best printer and shipper of books, and more with the best creator/editor/overseer of books. But again, it is still the big 2 creating/editing and overseeing the books in these imprints-Karen Berger was a DC employee overseeing the line. Archie Goodwin was a Marvel employee overseeing the line and both did work under the house imprint as well at the time. If you are looking for outside the big 2, these are not outside the big 2. Many of the big Vertigo books even started as DC books not Vertigo (Sandman, Morrison's Doom Patrol & Animal Man, Swamp Thing, etc.) and later shifted to Vertigo to launch the imprint. Many Epic titles started as part of the Marvel Graphic Novel line published under the Marvel banner not Epic, and then continued as regular series under the Epic banner. I don't see these things as non-big 2. -M |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 1, 2015 12:55:34 GMT -5
But again, it is still the big 2 creating/editing and overseeing the books in these imprints-Karen Berger was a DC employee overseeing the line. Archie Goodwin was a Marvel employee overseeing the line and both did work under the house imprint as well at the time. But, in both cases, the same person brought two very different flavors/personalities to the two entities. Archie Goodwin also edited for Warren a decade earlier, but no one would mistake the books he oversaw while at Marvel for the books he oversaw at Warren. The policies, restrictions, mandates, attitudes, and flavors were different, and that's why I think we should consider counting imprints. True, but I don't think anyone ever says "Hey, I forget, was that a Vertigo book or a core DC book?" The flavors/personalities are completely different. Same argument here. You are correct that the imprints were done on Marvel and DC's dimes, were promoted and published by DC, and were overseen by DC personal. My point is that the intent was to create a separate entity with a separate personality/flavor; therefore they are not Marvel/DC, even if they were owned and run by Marvel/DC. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 1, 2015 12:57:46 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I pretty well agree down the line with that mrp says in re Epic and Vertigo.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 1, 2015 13:00:13 GMT -5
Ait/Planet Lar might be considered, Larry Young's publishinghouse started in '99, with such books as Astronauts in Trouble, Colonia, Planet of the Capes, collected editions of things like Shatter (first done at First) etc. -M Plus, much of Brian Wood's early work, although he would later have a falling out with Young. Joe Casey had a bunch of projects there, too. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 1, 2015 13:03:04 GMT -5
I think Epic is more amorphous than Vertigo, but I leave it to the group to discuss. Should Big Two imprints be eligible? In my mind, Vertigo and Epic both had their own identities apart from the core Big Two, but I leave it to you folks to convince me either way on this. I'm more okay with Epic than Vertigo as Vertigo's "creator-owned" books are more like creator-shared (unless Vertigo decides they no longer want the property and let the creators purchase the full rights after a waiting period following last publication). Still, I think it would be best if both Epic and Vertigo were left off the list. I know I think "Marvel" when I think about "Epic" and "DC" when I think about "Vertigo".
Maybe we should have a preliminary poll whether we consider Epic and Vertigo part of the Big Two?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 13:06:30 GMT -5
TO counter-Sandman is the flagship book for Vertigo. It was not created to be a separate entity. It was firmly placed in the DCU in its early stories. It is not even creator-owned. Gaiman doesn't own the concepts/characters, DC does and can use them as they will. Berger had a gentleman's agreement with Gaiman over their use which Didio and Nelson seem to be honoring but it is very much a DC property. DC had a long history or publishing books that were different under the DC banner-(Clash, Twilight, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Ms. Tree Quarterly, Cinder and Ashe, Sonic Disruptors, Lords of the Ultra Realm, Slash Maraud etc.) that were separate entities and had separate personalities and flavors, but they were still DC books.
-M
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 1, 2015 13:10:19 GMT -5
TO counter-Sandman is the flagship book for Vertigo. It was not created to be a separate entity. It was firmly placed in the DCU in its early stories. It is not even creator-owned. Gaiman doesn't own the concepts/characters, DC does and can use them as they will. Berger had a gentleman's agreement with Gaiman over their use which Didio and Nelson seem to be honoring but it is very much a DC property. DC had a long history or publishing books that were different under the DC banner-(Clash, Twilight, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Ms. Tree Quarterly, Cinder and Ashe, Sonic Disruptors, Lords of the Ultra Realm, Slash Maraud etc.) that were separate entities and had separate personalities and flavors, but they were still DC books. -M If we were going to look at imprints-- and again, I don't think we should, but for the sake of argument-- I'd say Piranha/Paradox Press was more of an independent entity from DC than Vertigo is. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 1, 2015 13:10:29 GMT -5
Underground publishers: Last Gasp, Print Mint, Apex, etc. Which ones, specifically, would you recommend adding? There are hundreds, so which ones are particularly of note and likely to earn a vote? Rip Off Press Last Gasp Print Mint Apex Novelties |
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