shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 1, 2015 13:17:06 GMT -5
TO counter-Sandman is the flagship book for Vertigo. It was not created to be a separate entity. It was firmly placed in the DCU in its early stories. It is not even creator-owned. Gaiman doesn't own the concepts/characters, DC does and can use them as they will. Berger had a gentleman's agreement with Gaiman over their use which Didio and Nelson seem to be honoring but it is very much a DC property. DC had a long history or publishing books that were different under the DC banner-(Clash, Twilight, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Ms. Tree Quarterly, Cinder and Ashe, Sonic Disruptors, Lords of the Ultra Realm, Slash Maraud etc.) that were separate entities and had separate personalities and flavors, but they were still DC books. -M Your point is still about ownership. Mine is still about personality. At this point, I think we're just spinning wheels at each other. Seems, preliminarily, like folks are on your side with this. We'll give it a little more time and, if the feeling remains that way, I'll pull Epic and Vertigo from the options. |
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 1, 2015 13:24:37 GMT -5
Has anyone said Antarctic Press? They've been putting out books for over 30 years now and have some very long running titles. A lot of what they do is niche stuff, but they've also put out some really good indie books like Box Office Poison, a personal favorite of mine. Fiction House is best known for their great pulp covers and good girl art. They also had several titles that ran for 15+years or so, until the industry crashed in the 50's. Many of their long running titles are favorites in our Classic Cover Contest, especially Planet Comics, Wings, and Fight Comics. There are some other early golden age publishers that might be worthy of inclusion, though not as big or well known as Fiction House And I doubt they would actually get any votes. But among hardcore Golden Age collectors, Chesler and Centaur have big followings. Chesler only put out a few titles, and they all lasted just a short time, but they put out an inordinate number of classic covers given their tiny production:    |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 1, 2015 13:29:59 GMT -5
We're up to 54 nominees, yet I somehow suspect only four or five will actually get votes  |
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 1, 2015 13:35:10 GMT -5
Maybe have everyone vote on their five favorite other publishers?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 13:36:33 GMT -5
Atomic Book Company - Lulu, Eightball, etc. - You are right, Shax and the other two forget about it. I didn't think about the Classic part when I was considering Atomic Book Company.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 1, 2015 13:41:15 GMT -5
Maybe have everyone vote on their five favorite other publishers? Not a bad idea. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 1, 2015 13:41:42 GMT -5
You are right, Shax and the other two forget about it. I didn't think about the Classic part when I was considering Atomic Book Company. No worries. As was pointed out, I made the same error with some of my selections on the initial list. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 1, 2015 13:50:15 GMT -5
Acclaim also created Troublemakers, (which I liked, but I don't think got a huge amount of love generally) besides Quantum and Woody, FWIW.
I'd consider Oni almost a Manga publisher.... and clearly that's not what we're going for, or you'd have to add Viz, Tokyo Pop, etc.
How about Checker? I don't think they published their own stuff, but they did alot of classic reprints before Fantagraphics and others started doing it better.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 13:53:30 GMT -5
TO counter-Sandman is the flagship book for Vertigo. It was not created to be a separate entity. It was firmly placed in the DCU in its early stories. It is not even creator-owned. Gaiman doesn't own the concepts/characters, DC does and can use them as they will. Berger had a gentleman's agreement with Gaiman over their use which Didio and Nelson seem to be honoring but it is very much a DC property. DC had a long history or publishing books that were different under the DC banner-(Clash, Twilight, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Ms. Tree Quarterly, Cinder and Ashe, Sonic Disruptors, Lords of the Ultra Realm, Slash Maraud etc.) that were separate entities and had separate personalities and flavors, but they were still DC books. -M Your point is still about ownership. Mine is still about personality. At this point, I think we're just spinning wheels at each other. Seems, preliminarily, like folks are on your side with this. We'll give it a little more time and, if the feeling remains that way, I'll pull Epic and Vertigo from the options. My point is DC was putting out books with that different style and personality long before they rebranded those types of books as Vertigo. DC wasn't doing anything they hadn't been doing all along with Vertigo, except they decided to rebrand it to create a sense that it was different from DC, when in effect it was the same thing they had been doing all along with a new logo and a slightly different business model behind the curtain. Books like Clash and V for Vendetta read exactly like Vertigo books did, they were just put out before DC created the Vertigo brand. Is there a stylistic difference and personality difference between American Century (Vertigo Chaykin) and New Teen Titans, sure, but is there that same difference between American Century and Cinder and Ashe (or even between American Century and Chaykin's Shadow and Blackhawk) which was a DC book not Vertigo. Not so much. The difference between a Vertigo book and a the many non-traditional non-super-hero books put out by DC was negligible in terms of style and personality. Those Vertigo books could have been DC books if they had been published pre-93 and many of those pre-93 books were shifted to Vertigo for trades and collections post-'93 because they were cut from the same cloth, cloth DC had been putting out long before there was a Vertigo label on it. That said, if people decide Vertigo and Epic should be a part of the list, so be it. As much as I like their output, I won't vote for them as a non-big 2 entity. -M |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 1, 2015 13:54:37 GMT -5
I'd consider Oni almost a Manga publisher.... and clearly that's not what we're going for, or you'd have to add Viz, Tokyo Pop, etc. That was my initial impression as well, but evidence was provided in this thread that they published a wealth of non-manga material that is worthy of note. I have nothing against manga, btw, but it's practically its own medium and very difficult to compare against non-manga works. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 13:59:59 GMT -5
Oni books I really liked included a lot of Greg Rucka's stuff like Queen and Country and Whiteout, and more recently Stumptown and CullenBunn's Sixth Gun and Helheim. I also really like their marketing push as "the real mainstram" basically throwing the idea that superheroes are mainstream and everything else niche on its head and saying, no real mainstream is everything else, it's superheroes that are the niche and this entire industry serves that niche slavishly and shouldn't. Of course since then, super-hero movies have come to dominate mainstream pop culture, so what did they know. -M |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 1, 2015 14:00:22 GMT -5
Has anyone said Antarctic Press? They've been putting out books for over 30 years now and have some very long running titles. A lot of what they do is niche stuff, but they've also put out some really good indie books like Box Office Poison, a personal favorite of mine. I followed Gold Digger for a good while. Some Ninja High School and Warrior Nun Areala. They did some other quite expansive titles, but none are coming to mind, or are titles I can't weigh in on. Acclaim also created Troublemakers, (which I liked, but I don't think got a huge amount of love generally) besides Quantum and Woody, FWIW. I'd consider Oni almost a Manga publisher.... and clearly that's not what we're going for, or you'd have to add Viz, Tokyo Pop, etc. How about Checker? I don't think they published their own stuff, but they did alot of classic reprints before Fantagraphics and others started doing it better. Two Viz titles I enjoyed a lot collecting anime Inu-Yasha and No Need For Tenchi. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 1, 2015 14:02:26 GMT -5
They defintely did a few others under the Apple Comics brand... I don't own any of them, but I remember the house ads... one was for sure a comic adaptation of Robert Aspirin's Mythconceptions anthology... Here we go... looks like it wasn't actually the Pinis that ran it.. they just printed Siege at Blue Mountain. OTOH, they definitely were legit. According to the internet Richard Pini did the marketing for Apple while Elfquest was housed there, but he wasn't in charge or anything. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Comicsen.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaRP_GraphicsA couple of those titles did move to WaRP when Elfquest went back to self-publishing under the WaRP banner... they also published Elflord and Distant Soil. Not sure anyone would vote for them, but they definitely had the output to qualify. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 1, 2015 14:04:03 GMT -5
I'd consider Oni almost a Manga publisher.... and clearly that's not what we're going for, or you'd have to add Viz, Tokyo Pop, etc. That was my initial impression as well, but evidence was provided in this thread that they published a wealth of non-manga material that is worthy of note. I have nothing against manga, btw, but it's practically its own medium and very difficult to compare against non-manga works. I agree 100%.. I don't think manga should be included...it's completely different in just about every way (marketing, genres, format, distribution, etc) I didn't realize Oni did so much other stuff. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 1, 2015 14:10:36 GMT -5
Maybe have everyone vote on their five favorite other publishers? Not a bad idea. I'd suggest doing the 5-4-3-2-1 thing to come up with the winner, actually. I know that means more work (I'll do it if you want), and makes it a little harder logistically, but I think well get better results. |
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