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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 13:52:32 GMT -5
I rather have a good story than bother with the continity / universe / and all that nonsense ... because I'm tired of reading stories that artists draw first beautifully and the writers tried to write with it. Perfect Example - Firestorm a few years back and the failed Justice League International in the New 52. I don't pay attention to DC Universe because it's gives me a headache trying to figure out all the main players as well as minor ones.
If the book doesn't produce a good story after 3-5 issues - I will cancel the book immediately without questions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 14:00:43 GMT -5
Everything since then that has been officially said is that digital sales have been consistent and show the same growth pattern as print, which indicates that they are growing, but keeping that 10% of print sales levels, as print is slowly growing again. But growing does not mean they have not decreased immensely in the past 30 years. All but the top 15-20 titles of the big 2 are selling at levels that would have demoted them to bi-monthly or gotten them cancelled 30 years ago. Even with current growth, units moved is well below levels from 30 years ago.
The claims that revenues have reached a 20 year high are misleading in that adjusting cover prices for inflation the disparity in cover price means you can sell half as many units today (than 20 years ago) and just barely outpace the revenue levels of 20 years ago. Celebrating that you are currently just getting to the point where you are back to moving half as many units as 20 years ago only indicates how far sales of units have fallen.
-M
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 7, 2015 14:41:25 GMT -5
I think alot of you guys that poo-poo on continuity don't realize how important it really is. It's not that the current crop of books don't use it, they just use it badly.
If continuity isn't important, why did people freak out when Superman had electric powers? Who cares if Batman is Jim Gordon in a robot suit, it's still Batman, right? EVERYONE has a line they draw where they say 'this is important to me, and this isn't'... some people's lines encompass more things than others.
Back to my example... I liked the Starfire book, and will probably pick it up until they cancel it 6-8 months from now. I probably would have picked up Red Hood and Arsenal too, if the two books were even slightly related. Since they're not, and the latter wasn't that great, I'm dropping it. See how that works?
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 7, 2015 14:49:28 GMT -5
I think alot of you guys that poo-poo on continuity don't realize how important it really is. It's not that the current crop of books don't use it, they just use it badly. If continuity isn't important, why did people freak out when Superman had electric powers? Who cares if Batman is Jim Gordon in a robot suit, it's still Batman, right? EVERYONE has a line they draw where they say 'this is important to me, and this isn't'... some people's lines encompass more things than others. Because people are going to freak out about things. People are a superstitious and cowardly lot. I could care less about either of the things you mentioned. Is the story good? If it is, fine, I'll read it. If it's not, I won't. It's really that simple. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 7, 2015 14:55:02 GMT -5
I'd argue it's harder to write a good story in a vacuum than it is using a well developed shared universe.
Just because you're not the type of person that doesn't care if they forgot the stripe on someones boots (I'm not either, btw) doesn't mean continuity isn't important.
I got another example for you guys...Conan.
I'm not one to dislike a story because it logistically doesn't make sense, or doesn't fit on the 'official timeline'. OTOH, some Conan writers (Robert Jordan comes to mind, as does the movie) make a complete hash of the character. You know why that annoys people? Continuity. They want to see the character they are interesting in be, more or less, the character they expect. When he/she isn't, it's quite annoying. THAT'S what I'm talking about here.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 7, 2015 15:09:13 GMT -5
I think alot of you guys that poo-poo on continuity don't realize how important it really is. It's not that the current crop of books don't use it, they just use it badly. If continuity isn't important, why did people freak out when Superman had electric powers? Who cares if Batman is Jim Gordon in a robot suit, it's still Batman, right? EVERYONE has a line they draw where they say 'this is important to me, and this isn't'... some people's lines encompass more things than others. Back to my example... I liked the Starfire book, and will probably pick it up until they cancel it 6-8 months from now. I probably would have picked up Red Hood and Arsenal too, if the two books were even slightly related. Since they're not, and the latter wasn't that great, I'm dropping it. See how that works? I don't think its that important at all, I mean like I said earlier just look at the Batbooks right now; in Batman and Robin you have this big event to bring Damien back from the dead...but it isn't mentioned anywhere else and Damien doesn't appear in any other title. At the same time you have this big city destroying cataclysm in Gotham happening in Batman and Batman Eternal but there's no evidence of it in Detective, Batgirl or Justice League as Bruce is seemingly easily able to be a league member. And yet no one is leaving the books in droves, in fact they're all doing well so it would seem that continuity isn't a huge concern. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 7, 2015 15:14:22 GMT -5
See, it IS important, if you want people to buy all the Batbooks. I get Batman and Robin (I like Damien) and Batgirl. I don't get any of the others. If there was a passing reference to something that happened in another book, I might get that,too. Since there isn't, I don't. Yes, if you're going to do that, the two books have to make some sort of logical sense as happening at roughly the same time... but is that such a big trauma.
How many times did those little editorial footnotes Roy Thomas used to love make you go buy a comic you'd never had bought otherwise? THATS the sort of thing I'm talking about.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 7, 2015 15:17:01 GMT -5
How many times did those little editorial footnotes Roy Thomas used to love make you go buy a comic you'd never had bought otherwise? THATS the sort of thing I'm talking about. Almost never. Because those books weren't readily available. They had to be ordered from various mail order houses and they were freakin' expensive. If anything it was a tease. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 7, 2015 15:20:49 GMT -5
See, it IS important, if you want people to buy all the Batbooks. I get Batman and Robin (I like Damien) and Batgirl. I don't get any of the others. If there was a passing reference to something that happened in another book, I might get that,too. Since there isn't, I don't. Yes, if you're going to do that, the two books have to make some sort of logical sense as happening at roughly the same time... but is that such a big trauma. How many times did those little editorial footnotes Roy Thomas used to love make you go buy a comic you'd never had bought otherwise? THATS the sort of thing I'm talking about. The best way to get people to buy all the books is to make sure they are good, that seems to be what they're trying and it is definitely working. And unless I heard those other issues that the foot notes mentioned were really good, I didn't pick them up just because they were referenced. The only times an in story story reference has ever made me buy a book that wasn't on my radar have been times when they introduced new and interesting ideas, which again goes along with, "is it good?" a reference alone isn't going to sell me. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 7, 2015 15:20:51 GMT -5
Well, as a back issue collector, I got turned on to lots of stuff that way... back in the mid-90s when I was buying alot of lowish price back issues. I guess if you were buying them off the newsstand it was tricky, but if they did that NOW, it certainly wouldn't be.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 15:23:07 GMT -5
Continuity was very important. The more continuity got emphasized, the smaller the readership actually got and it and the loss of newsstands were the two most important factors in the ghettoization of comic books over the last 20-30 years. So it is important, just not in the way most hardcore fans think it is. Now with the movies, comics are moving out of the ghetto and suddenly continuity is becoming less important, and the hardcore fans can't accept the industry is moving away from the things that kept it in the ghetto and is now moving towards the mainstream where they can actually increase units moved and not watch sales shrink for 3 decades.
-M
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 7, 2015 15:23:28 GMT -5
The best way to get people to buy all the books is to make sure they are good, that seems to be what they're trying and it is definitely working. And unless I heard those other issues that the foot notes mentioned were really good, I didn't pick them up just because they were referenced. The only times an in story story reference has ever made me buy a book that wasn't on my radar have been times when they introduced new and interesting ideas, which again goes along with, "is it good?" a reference alone isn't going to sell me. Why can't they be both? That's what they used to do. That's what I'm saying. Personally, an interesting story note would be far more likely to entice me than others saying it's good, since I've often been disappointed by what fandom as a whole thinks is good, but to each their own  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 15:23:52 GMT -5
Well, as a back issue collector, I got turned on to lots of stuff that way... back in the mid-90s when I was buying alot of lowish price back issues. I guess if you were buying them off the newsstand it was tricky, but if they did that NOW, it certainly wouldn't be. Marvel and DC don't care if you are a back issue collector unless you are buying those back issues from them via digital or trades. -M |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 7, 2015 15:25:20 GMT -5
Continuity was very important. The more continuity got emphasized, the smaller the readership actually got and it and the loss of newsstands were the two most important factors in the ghettoization of comic books over the last 20-30 years. So it is important, just not in the way most hardcore fans think it is. Now with the movies, comics are moving out of the ghetto and suddenly continuity is becoming less important, and the hardcore fans can't accept the industry is moving away from the things that kept it in the ghetto and is now moving towards the mainstream where they can actually increase units moved and not watch sales shrink for 3 decades. -M I don't really understand why you think continuity has anything to do with newsstand distribution or sales... that doesn't make any sense to me. All I'm saying is if two books that are on the market at the same time are talking about the same character (Starfire, in this instance), that character should be the same in both books. Is that so wrong? |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 7, 2015 15:26:06 GMT -5
I got another example for you guys...Conan. I'm not one to dislike a story because it logistically doesn't make sense, or doesn't fit on the 'official timeline'. OTOH, some Conan writers (Robert Jordan comes to mind, as does the movie) make a complete hash of the character. You know why that annoys people? Continuity. They want to see the character they are interesting in be, more or less, the character they expect. When he/she isn't, it's quite annoying. THAT'S what I'm talking about here. It annoys a certain type of person. It annoys people who are concerned with that sort of minutiae. Or who have overly invested themselves in a certain character. For the casual fan or someone with a passing interest it makes little to no difference. Conan the Barbarian (I'm assuming you are talking about the original Arnold movie) was very successful. It more than tripled its budget in worldwide box office. It spawned a sequel and led to the spin-off of Red Sonja. I'm not arguing that making money equals quality. I'm simply saying that most people who aren't die-hard collector/obsessives don't care much about continuity. |
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