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Post by Earth 2 Flash on Jul 7, 2015 19:30:03 GMT -5
Speaking of different demographics, continuity free storybooks aimed at young readers featuring Marvel and DC characters are outselling their current comic output. Why is that? Perhaps because continuity isn't a driving force for sales? -M
Which out of continuity DC books are outselling their in-continuity counterparts?
I am not sure if this counts or not, but I understand that Superman: Earth One and Batman: Earth One outsell the main line Superman and Batman books. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 7, 2015 19:37:35 GMT -5
I don't see any way you can reasonably argue that that's the case. Conan Comics in 1982 were selling at most 200,000 copies (and I really doubt it was that much) at 60 cents a pop. And yes, you had the fans of the paperbacks. But sword & sorcery books were a very niche market then and now. Movie price in 1983 averaged $3/ticket. You don't generate $68 million worldwide box office with a fan-base of maybe a couple million people. Conan wasn't remotely a household name and still isn't. If you want to make that argument with Superman or Batman I'd still say you're almost certainly wrong. But with Conan...no way. I find that to be a silly argument. Not every fan buys a comic, and not every comic fan buys every issue. IF you're talking worldwide box office, you're not taking into account later non-English reprints, I'm sure in 1983 there were easily 1 million people who were fans of the property that were excite to see it... if each of them brought a date and/or their family, that's a good chunk of the box office right there. The bottom line is if they felt the property didn't have a fan base, the movie wouldn't have been made with a property that cost money to license.. it would have just been Arnold the Barbarian or something. Which isn't what I said. Obviously Conan had a fan base. That fan base, however, wasn't remotely large enough to make a big budget motion picture successful. The fan base is likely going to see the movie regardless of whether it's "faithful" to the source material or not. Even three million fans multiplied by $3 is $9,000,000. The movie's budget was $20 million. The draw wasn't Conan. The draw was Arnold. The history of cinema is riddled with "adaptions" that have virtually nothing to do with the source material. And a ton of them are successful. |
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Post by Dr. Poison on Jul 7, 2015 20:31:13 GMT -5
Which out of continuity DC books are outselling their in-continuity counterparts?
I am not sure if this counts or not, but I understand that Superman: Earth One and Batman: Earth One outsell the main line Superman and Batman books. While I can't speak for anyone else, I was looking for ongoing series not one-shots or books published once a year like the two books you mentioned above. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 7, 2015 21:32:13 GMT -5
Which out of continuity DC books are outselling their in-continuity counterparts?
I am not sure if this counts or not, but I understand that Superman: Earth One and Batman: Earth One outsell the main line Superman and Batman books. I'm not sure how you would compare a one shot OGN release with a monthly book to be honest, but that's more an argument FOR continuity... people like to be at the start of something (such as Earth One). You know what the big discussions were about Titans: Earth One were one CBR? How it FIT with Superman and Batman. @ Slam Re: Movies - So what you're saying is the movie studio just threw their money away buying the rights to use Conan, rather than just making a Conan-like movie... follow the cash... adaptations are done because they have a built in fan base, I can't believe that's not obvious. Otherwise, they'd not bother. Was Arnold a big draw in 1983? Of Course.. just like having Jack Nicholson as the Joker was a big draw.. that doesn't mean the property was useless, otherwise they'd not have purchased it. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 7, 2015 22:23:32 GMT -5
Speaking of different demographics, continuity free storybooks aimed at young readers featuring Marvel and DC characters are outselling their current comic output. Why is that? Perhaps because continuity isn't a driving force for sales? -M Which books are those? The out of continuity DC books (which I love, btw), are digital first, and sometimes digital only.. they can't be selling that well. If you're taking stuff like Marvel and DC based little golden books, that's not a fair comparison.. the distribution channels for that sorta thing (as you well know) are completely different. You guys have me all wrong, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having every book be separate. I'm just saying if they want to do that, they should do it. It annoys me that they pretend everything happens in the same universe where clearly they take no steps to make that really be the case. I don't see why it would be annoying, if the books are good they're good and its not hard to make them "fit" if you want to. Again, it's not explicitly stated, and I don't need it to be, but in my mind the Return of Damien Wayne happens much later than Eternal or the current run in Batman. Supposedly they are happening together, and that Damien just hasn't appeared because Snyder doesn't like writing him and there's nothing wrong with that.
Like I said earlier continuity should be used when it suits the story the writers want to tell and ignored when it hampers their vision and I don't understand why anyone would want it any other way.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 7, 2015 22:31:24 GMT -5
I am not sure if this counts or not, but I understand that Superman: Earth One and Batman: Earth One outsell the main line Superman and Batman books. I'm not sure how you would compare a one shot OGN release with a monthly book to be honest, but that's more an argument FOR continuity... people like to be at the start of something (such as Earth One). You know what the big discussions were about Titans: Earth One were one CBR? How it FIT with Superman and Batman. @ Slam Re: Movies - So what you're saying is the movie studio just threw their money away buying the rights to use Conan, rather than just making a Conan-like movie... follow the cash... adaptations are done because they have a built in fan base, I can't believe that's not obvious. Otherwise, they'd not bother. Was Arnold a big draw in 1983? Of Course.. just like having Jack Nicholson as the Joker was a big draw.. that doesn't mean the property was useless, otherwise they'd not have purchased it. Arnold as Conan isn't anywhere near Jack as the Joker. Conan was definitely a case of, "We have this huge guy and he's hot right now, what can we do with him?" They didn't throw their money away by using the name, it was because it was a known entity but that doesn't mean they figured the built in fan base would be integral just that people would hear the name and have a vague idea what to expect which wouldn't have been the case with a generic title.
This isn't a new thing either, just look at my review of the Murder in in the Rue Morgue over in the Classic Film Club thread. It's a movie from 1932 that just uses the title from Poe's story, the character names and the Ape, but everything else is different. And why? Because the name was known and the basic concept fit with what they wanted to do with Bella Lugosi. It's standard practice really.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 8, 2015 6:19:55 GMT -5
I don't see why it would be annoying, if the books are good they're good and its not hard to make them "fit" if you want to. Again, it's not explicitly stated, and I don't need it to be, but in my mind the Return of Damien Wayne happens much later than Eternal or the current run in Batman. Supposedly they are happening together, and that Damien just hasn't appeared because Snyder doesn't like writing him and there's nothing wrong with that.
Like I said earlier continuity should be used when it suits the story the writers want to tell and ignored when it hampers their vision and I don't understand why anyone would want it any other way.
I agree, for the most part. I have no problem with Robin appearing in some books, but not others. It would annoy me if it was Damien in one book and Tim Drake in another, when both are supposed to be happening at the same time without an explanation. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about... and why I used Starfire as an example. If you want to reboot her to essential the Teen Titans Go! version, fine, but don't have her be innocent and clueless in her own book, while she's hardened and cynical in Red Hood and the Outlaws. At least don't have them talk about her any more over there, so it's not glaringly obvious. Or, just point out this the Starfire book takes place 5 years ago, on in another universe. It's not that hard, and it doesn't effect the story. |
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Post by Dr. Poison on Jul 8, 2015 7:42:38 GMT -5
I don't see why it would be annoying, if the books are good they're good and its not hard to make them "fit" if you want to. Again, it's not explicitly stated, and I don't need it to be, but in my mind the Return of Damien Wayne happens much later than Eternal or the current run in Batman. Supposedly they are happening together, and that Damien just hasn't appeared because Snyder doesn't like writing him and there's nothing wrong with that.
Like I said earlier continuity should be used when it suits the story the writers want to tell and ignored when it hampers their vision and I don't understand why anyone would want it any other way.
I agree, for the most part. I have no problem with Robin appearing in some books, but not others. It would annoy me if it was Damien in one book and Tim Drake in another, when both are supposed to be happening at the same time without an explanation. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about... and why I used Starfire as an example. If you want to reboot her to essential the Teen Titans Go! version, fine, but don't have her be innocent and clueless in her own book, while she's hardened and cynical in Red Hood and the Outlaws. At least don't have them talk about her any more over there, so it's not glaringly obvious. Or, just point out this the Starfire book takes place 5 years ago, on in another universe. It's not that hard, and it doesn't effect the story. I like your suggestions on how to clarify things or perhaps, DC could have some notation on the covers of books that are in continuity with each other and which are in a stand alone universe? |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 8, 2015 9:36:40 GMT -5
There doesn't even have to be a note, just make it obvious. Section Eight, for example, is clearly taking place either towards the end of, or slightly after, Ennis' Hitman run. That's totally fine.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 8, 2015 10:39:57 GMT -5
I don't see why it would be annoying, if the books are good they're good and its not hard to make them "fit" if you want to. Again, it's not explicitly stated, and I don't need it to be, but in my mind the Return of Damien Wayne happens much later than Eternal or the current run in Batman. Supposedly they are happening together, and that Damien just hasn't appeared because Snyder doesn't like writing him and there's nothing wrong with that.
Like I said earlier continuity should be used when it suits the story the writers want to tell and ignored when it hampers their vision and I don't understand why anyone would want it any other way.
I agree, for the most part. I have no problem with Robin appearing in some books, but not others. It would annoy me if it was Damien in one book and Tim Drake in another, when both are supposed to be happening at the same time without an explanation. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about... and why I used Starfire as an example. If you want to reboot her to essential the Teen Titans Go! version, fine, but don't have her be innocent and clueless in her own book, while she's hardened and cynical in Red Hood and the Outlaws. At least don't have them talk about her any more over there, so it's not glaringly obvious. Or, just point out this the Starfire book takes place 5 years ago, on in another universe. It's not that hard, and it doesn't effect the story. She isn't currently appearing in Redhood though, so it doesn't contradict what's happening there. Perhaps she had an alien mood swing and left the team? Who knows/it doesn't matter as long as it's a fun story. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 8, 2015 12:30:56 GMT -5
'Currently Appearing' isn't something that really applies to a series that's had one issue... she didn't appear, but they talked about her... her NOT appearing in the next issue or two would be weird without a big story explanation.
It's fine you guys disagree... I personally think both Marvel and DC have lost something by not having a logical, shared universe. Frankly, most of those books aren't good enough to justify the cost on their own.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 9, 2015 7:10:53 GMT -5
'Currently Appearing' isn't something that really applies to a series that's had one issue... she didn't appear, but they talked about her... her NOT appearing in the next issue or two would be weird without a big story explanation. It's fine you guys disagree... I personally think both Marvel and DC have lost something by not having a logical, shared universe. Frankly, most of those books aren't good enough to justify the cost on their own. It's been re-titled Redhood and Arsenal, so I don't think the status is set to change in the near future, probably because of the Starfire solo book. But why would the inclusion of a shared universe make the books justify their sticker price? |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 9, 2015 21:22:53 GMT -5
It might not, but it might if it was part of a greater tapestry.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 10, 2015 12:24:31 GMT -5
It might not, but it might if it was part of a greater tapestry. But that "greater tapestry" even at the most continuity crazy moments was only a tiny part of each issue so why would it's inclusion make it more of a better value? I just don't get that at all. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 10, 2015 15:23:54 GMT -5
It's hard to explain if you don't get it. Back in the day, when say, in an Iron Man issue, when he's say something about whatever was happening in Avengers, or when the Avengers would call Reed Richards for help, and he's say he was busy, it always made me want to see what else was going on. You could do that back in the day and still read about the same characters in different books. You can't really now, and it's sad, IMO.
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