shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 22, 2014 10:44:12 GMT -5
But here's the thing -- as part of the DC trinity, DC has now spent the past four decades trying to convince us that Wonder Woman is a role model for girls and women, a powerful and righteous being. Then why all those bondage covers from the 70s? Good question. There's where we differ. Superman and Wonder Woman are heroes to generations of people and thus, I feel, have a responsibility to maintain a certain level of heroism in their depictions. They can be sexy; Superman married Lois in the old continuity, so clearly there was a sexual relationship there. They can have sexual feelings and relationships, but both stand for so much to so many that simply reducing them to T&A assets, even for the purposes of a discussion thread, troubles me. And for Wonder Woman, that history of bondage scenarios makes it even worse. Take a female hero who doesn't hold as saintly a status and who doesn't have a history of sexual situations that were (pardon the language) thrust upon her violently and against her will, and I don't see a problem. She-Hulk's sexiest moments? Bring it on. But I feel very differently when it comes to Diana -- a hero who is supposed to stand for strong femininity while conversations like these end up dredging up old covers where she's sexually helpless and humiliated. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 13:11:30 GMT -5
I've got to say, I never thought Diana was even attractive, let alone sexy, until she lost her powers and costume.  I know some have read into that something about the disempowerment of women. But I found the more human Diana, w/out her powers or super-friends backing her up, still standing up for herself and others, more appealing. (Maybe it was the resemblance to Diana Rigg.  ) Of course, they still couldn't keep away from the bondage.  |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 22, 2014 13:32:33 GMT -5
In a perfect world Wonder Woman would be as sexualized as Superman, but as we know, 99% of the creators and the fan-base are male. Personally, I never think of Wonder Woman as being particularly "sexual" even though she's a perfect 11. She's on the same level as Superman for me as being a paragon of heroic virtue; Catwoman, Black Canary, She-Hulk, Black Window, etc, now those are clearly sexual characters.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jun 22, 2014 14:46:49 GMT -5
I was too young to appreciate what many older viewers seemed to fixate on with Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman and too young also to be bothered by her wooden performance. I remember really liking the pilot movie that pitted her against Nazis and had her deflecting machine gun fire with her bracelets!
I was familiar with the character mainly from her appearances on Super-Friends (a thoroughly un-sexy portrayal) and a handful of JLA comics I'd managed to get my hands on. I was an adult before I became aware of the Marston stuff. Objectifying women in comics has been going on for so long that some argue it's an intrinsic quality of the medium, a tradition, something to be tolerated, if not celebrated. I don't agree with that. I don't think I've ever read mainstream comics for the purpose of titillation, though there were unexpected stirrings now and again (Miller's Elektra, for example).
As for a "sexiest moment," I did linger on the following panel longer than usual, and I may have been reacting to more than just the "joke."
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Post by DubipR on Jun 22, 2014 15:35:13 GMT -5
Why don't we ask these questions about Superman and Batman? Why not.. Superman:  Making a porno with Big Barda Batman:  Getting ready to schtup Talia.. Need more? |
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Post by gothos on Jun 22, 2014 15:49:11 GMT -5
How about this one.  'Cause catfights are ALWAYS sexy!  |
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Post by gothos on Jun 22, 2014 16:11:57 GMT -5
Why don't we ask these questions about Superman and Batman? It's insane to me that, in 2014, we're still objectifying Wonder Woman solely because she's a woman.  In your opinion, is Catwoman sexualized in this image? Or is it Batman and/or Robin? Or all three? Or none? I ask because I think that there is a fair amount of sexualization in any male hero who is represented as traditionally strong and handsome. IMO it's an instant cue to the reader, "This guy can score with all the babes." Others' mileage may vary. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 22, 2014 16:12:52 GMT -5
Why don't we ask these questions about Superman and Batman? Why not.. Superman: Making a porno with Big Barda Batman: Getting ready to schtup Talia.. Need more? Superman is fully clothed while Barda is wearing something slinky. Even though he's technically being violated, the images still show him in control. Same with Bruce. He's taking the dominant romantic position over Talia even though, in a sense, he is being taken advantage of. Both images betray the content of the actual story to show men who are sexually dominant, not violated/humiliated. And both instances are rare exceptions to their publication histories, whereas Wonder Woman's covers had her violated almost monthly in the 70s. |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Jun 22, 2014 16:14:54 GMT -5
Why don't we ask these questions about Superman and Batman? It's insane to me that, in 2014, we're still objectifying Wonder Woman solely because she's a woman. In your opinion, is Catwoman sexualized in this image? Or is it Batman and/or Robin? Or all three? Or none? I ask because I think that there is a fair amount of sexualization in any male hero who is represented as traditionally strong and handsome. IMO it's an instant cue to the reader, "This guy can score with all the babes." Others' mileage may vary. Batman and Robin are not being sexualized in this instance. It's a sexy scenario, but (oddly enough) nothing about Batman and Robin is at all sexual here. It's not even implied that the whip has touched either of them. No single inch of ripped clothing exposing tender skin beneath. Meanwhile, a few posts above, we have Diana with her entire back exposed, her shirt shredded. |
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ironchimp
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Post by ironchimp on Jun 22, 2014 16:16:54 GMT -5
I always think of Superman as the most homoerotic beefcake possible in his skin tight bodysuit and rippling muscles
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 22, 2014 16:30:49 GMT -5
Didn't Wonder Woman have a dominating relationship over Steve Trevor for decades? So much so that if you look up the term "emasculated man" in the dictionary,Steve's face appears. And didn't Wonder Woman smirk everytime she employed her Golden Lariat Of Truth to bend the will of a captured male and force him to reveal himself? Wonder Woman and her Amazonian brethren knew how to dish it out as well  |
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Post by gothos on Jun 22, 2014 16:31:37 GMT -5
It might have something to do with Wonder Woman starting her life as a quasi-bondage fetish comic. Does Superman have any sexy moments before the Modern Age? Batman always had the tantalizing relationship with Catwoman, but Superman's love-life was pretty tame until Post-Crisis from what I've read. There's a weird Siegel-Shuster story-- I think it's in WORLDS FAIR COMICS- where Lois Lane gets so ticked by Superman ignoring her that she jumps on his back and dares him to fling her off (?) But not until the late 1950s-- oddly enough, after the institution of the Code-- that Supes starts attracting bunches of hot women: the adult Lana Lang, Lori Lemaris, Lyla Lerrol (first seen checking out Boring's Superman like your basic "piece of meat"), and maybe half a dozen others. I theorize that in the late 50s Mort Weisinger got out from under the direct supervision of Whit Ellsworth and began to deviate from the conservative standards of storytelling. Among the other changes that took place, Superman became sort of a G-rated "Playboy of Steel." |
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Post by gothos on Jun 22, 2014 16:38:05 GMT -5
In your opinion, is Catwoman sexualized in this image? Or is it Batman and/or Robin? Or all three? Or none? I ask because I think that there is a fair amount of sexualization in any male hero who is represented as traditionally strong and handsome. IMO it's an instant cue to the reader, "This guy can score with all the babes." Others' mileage may vary. Batman and Robin are not being sexualized in this instance. It's a sexy scenario, but (oddly enough) nothing about Batman and Robin is at all sexual here. It's not even implied that the whip has touched either of them. No single inch of ripped clothing exposing tender skin beneath. Meanwhile, a few posts above, we have Diana with her entire back exposed, her shirt shredded. If you're saying that you have to have exposed skin to connote sexualization, then we must agree to disagree. |
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Post by gothos on Jun 22, 2014 16:43:59 GMT -5
Didn't Wonder Woman have a dominating relationship over Steve Trevor for decades? So much so that if you look up the term "emasculated man" in the dictionary,Steve's face appears. And didn't Wonder Woman smirk everytime she employed her Golden Lariat Of Truth to bend the will of a captured male and force him to reveal himself? Wonder Woman and her Amazonian brethren knew how to dish it out as well In support of your assertion, the story above ends with Steve accepting Diana as the more powerful agent in their relationship, when he smashes the dingus that gives him super-strength. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 22, 2014 16:56:26 GMT -5
Didn't Wonder Woman have a dominating relationship over Steve Trevor for decades? So much so that if you look up the term "emasculated man" in the dictionary,Steve's face appears. And didn't Wonder Woman smirk everytime she employed her Golden Lariat Of Truth to bend the will of a captured male and force him to reveal himself? Wonder Woman and her Amazonian brethren knew how to dish it out as well In support of your assertion, the story above ends with Steve accepting Diana as the more powerful agent in their relationship, when he smashes the dingus that gives him super-strength. That makes sense.Steve was nothing more than a male version of Lois Lane without balls |
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