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Post by Cei-U! on Jun 10, 2020 19:10:42 GMT -5
Brilliant summary of the history of Tomahawk, Prince Hal . (Sometimes our tastes are so similar it's scary.) And the different 'phases' the title went through are a fascinating microcosm of shifting tastes in comics. It is interesting that Tomahawk predates the Davy Crockett craze of the mid-1950s, although I suspect the title got a boost during that period. The character of Schroeder in Peanuts came out of the Davy Crockett craze. Charles Schulz was somewhat bemused by the phenomenon and wondered what it might be like if kids were obsessed with a difficult historical figure. So he took the character of Schroeder (who had appeared in the strip, but only as a baby), aged him up, and gave him a fascination with Beethoven. And the rest, as they say, is history. Yes, I've always wondered what inspired the creation of Tomahawk, b/c as you say, he long pre-dated the Crockett fad. There had been "frontier' movies like "Last of the Mohicans, "Drums Along the Mohawk," and the epic "Northwest Passage," but the latter two were released seven years before Tomahawk first appeared and none of the "Mohican" movies were world-beaters. In fact, movies set during the American Revolution had and continued to be box office duds. You just didn't see many of them at all. Maybe it was seen as a twist on the traditional Western, and it just happened to hit big. I'd have to look it up to be 100% certain, but I think it was as simple as creator Fred Ray--who was a self-taught expert on the American Revolution--proposing such a series to the DC editorial staff and their signing off on it, presumably in the hopes that readers would find the series as exciting to read as Ray found it to write and draw. The novel Johnny Tremaine (later made into a movie by the Disney Studio) had been a bestseller just a few years earlier, so they must have understood there was a market for such a strip.
Cei-U! I summon the coonskin cap!
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 10, 2020 20:58:42 GMT -5
I sometimes receive TPBs bagged. What size should I be looking for, if I want to buy my own? I'm guessing I'd need at least two sizes, for thin ones (about a hundred pages) and thick ones (200-300). erm... I may be missing something here but why don't you measure one or two of the bags you already have? Take the TPB out and get a rule to it. My rulers are cm, not inches. The place I'm buying from doesn't advertise sizes, but rather say "2000 AD NEW SIZE BAGS" and things like that. Measurements would be imprecise anyway, as bags give way when overfilled...
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 10, 2020 23:18:31 GMT -5
Yes, I've always wondered what inspired the creation of Tomahawk, b/c as you say, he long pre-dated the Crockett fad. There had been "frontier' movies like "Last of the Mohicans, "Drums Along the Mohawk," and the epic "Northwest Passage," but the latter two were released seven years before Tomahawk first appeared and none of the "Mohican" movies were world-beaters. In fact, movies set during the American Revolution had and continued to be box office duds. You just didn't see many of them at all. Maybe it was seen as a twist on the traditional Western, and it just happened to hit big. I'd have to look it up to be 100% certain, but I think it was as simple as creator Fred Ray--who was a self-taught expert on the American Revolution--proposing such a series to the DC editorial staff and their signing off on it, presumably in the hopes that readers would find the series as exciting to read as Ray found it to write and draw. The novel Johnny Tremaine (later made into a movie by the Disney Studio) had been a bestseller just a few years earlier, so they must have understood there was a market for such a strip.
Cei-U! I summon the coonskin cap!
Damn. This should have occurred to me, but I probably never thought that a creator could just pitch an idea just because he was interested and knowledgeable. I'm sure today it's all about the demographics and data. And anthology comics, with several stories and characters in every issue, probably lent themselves to playing a hunch or indulging a creator for a few issues at least. I love Ray's art, and was gratified to see it years ago when I visited Gettysburg in pamphlets he drew and wrote about the battle. Since then I've seen similar pamphlets he did on the Alamo, Valley Forge and the Revolution. And I'm sure the success of Johnny Tremain, which is still a consistent best seller, would certainly have helped any pitch Ray made. I remember reading it as a kid and feeling as if I'd read my first adult book. I loved the Revolutionary Era even then (I may have been in fifth or sixth grade) and reading that novel remains a fond memory. How I hated to turn the last page of that book! Here's my question. How sophisticated were the measures by which DC, say, used to determine which characters were popular? What would have persuaded the powers that be to put Tomahawk on the cover to replace Robin? Just a shot in the dark when sales slipped? Letters from readers? Surveys? I can't see those latter two being of definitive help back then, but if anyone knows, you will, Cei-U!!
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Post by junkmonkey on Jun 11, 2020 6:20:04 GMT -5
"My rulers are cm, not inches. The place I'm buying from doesn't advertise sizes, but rather say "2000 AD NEW SIZE BAGS" and things like that. Measurements would be imprecise anyway, as bags give way when overfilled..."
They don't list their sizes anywhere? I'd write and ask them.
Imperial to metric conversion or vice versa is the bane of my life. I spent years working on building site in the UK with people using both simultaneously. I'd hear people saying things like "It's six foot two give or take a few millimetres." Or "I need a piece two inches wide and about two and a half meters long." Used to do my head in.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 11, 2020 7:02:13 GMT -5
It also did Mars Climate Orbiter in (head and the rest).
About asking him anything... here's what he said last time I went that route:
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 11, 2020 22:01:22 GMT -5
Northwest Passage, Drums Along the Mohawk and Last of the Mohicans (and the Deerslayer) are all major literary influences in the 30s and early 40s, just before Tomahawk appears. Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone were popular folklore and historical figures of the period, which led to the Disney Davy Crockett series and the Daniel Boone tv series.
Northwest Passage hit theaters, with Spencer Tracy and Robert Young, in 1940. Drums Along the Mohawk, with Henry Fonda, was 1939, and Last of the Mohicans featured in a 1932 serial, with Harry Carey, a 1936 version, with Randolph Scott (Randolph Scott!).
Johnny Tremain was published in 1943, but the Disney film isn't until 1957. The book won the 1944 Newberry Medal; so, it was a big deal, though it was aimed at children.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 11, 2020 22:03:48 GMT -5
Northwest Passage, Drums Along the Mohawk and Last of the Mohicans (and the Deerslayer) are all major literary influences in the 30s and early 40s, just before Tomahawk appears. Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone were popular folklore and historical figures of the period, which led to the Disney Davy Crockett series and the Daniel Boone tv series. Northwest Passage hit theaters, with Spencer Tracy and Robert Young, in 1940. Drums Along the Mohawk, with Henry Fonda, was 1939, and Last of the Mohicans featured in a 1932 serial, with Harry Carey, a 1936 version, with Randolph Scott (Randolph Scott!).Johnny Tremain was published in 1943, but the Disney film isn't until 1957. The book won the 1944 Newberry Medal; so, it was a big deal, though it was aimed at children. Sounds familiar. "There had been "frontier' movies like "Last of the Mohicans, "Drums Along the Mohawk," and the epic "Northwest Passage," but the latter two were released seven years before Tomahawk first appeared and none of the "Mohican" movies were world-beaters. In fact, movies set during the American Revolution had and continued to be box office duds. You just didn't see many of them at all."
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 11, 2020 22:13:26 GMT -5
Northwest Passage, Drums Along the Mohawk and Last of the Mohicans (and the Deerslayer) are all major literary influences in the 30s and early 40s, just before Tomahawk appears. Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone were popular folklore and historical figures of the period, which led to the Disney Davy Crockett series and the Daniel Boone tv series. Northwest Passage hit theaters, with Spencer Tracy and Robert Young, in 1940. Drums Along the Mohawk, with Henry Fonda, was 1939, and Last of the Mohicans featured in a 1932 serial, with Harry Carey, a 1936 version, with Randolph Scott (Randolph Scott!).Johnny Tremain was published in 1943, but the Disney film isn't until 1957. The book won the 1944 Newberry Medal; so, it was a big deal, though it was aimed at children. Sounds familiar. "There had been "frontier' movies like "Last of the Mohicans, "Drums Along the Mohawk," and the epic "Northwest Passage," but the latter two were released seven years before Tomahawk first appeared and none of the "Mohican" movies were world-beaters. In fact, movies set during the American Revolution had and continued to be box office duds. You just didn't see many of them at all." Also sounds like a movie review thread I heard about.
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zilch
Full Member
Posts: 238
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Post by zilch on Jun 11, 2020 22:35:00 GMT -5
Yes, I've always wondered what inspired the creation of Tomahawk, b/c as you say, he long pre-dated the Crockett fad. There had been "frontier' movies like "Last of the Mohicans, "Drums Along the Mohawk," and the epic "Northwest Passage," but the latter two were released seven years before Tomahawk first appeared and none of the "Mohican" movies were world-beaters. In fact, movies set during the American Revolution had and continued to be box office duds. You just didn't see many of them at all. Maybe it was seen as a twist on the traditional Western, and it just happened to hit big. I'd have to look it up to be 100% certain, but I think it was as simple as creator Fred Ray--who was a self-taught expert on the American Revolution--proposing such a series to the DC editorial staff and their signing off on it, presumably in the hopes that readers would find the series as exciting to read as Ray found it to write and draw. The novel Johnny Tremaine (later made into a movie by the Disney Studio) had been a bestseller just a few years earlier, so they must have understood there was a market for such a strip.
Cei-U! I summon the coonskin cap!
Original writer was Joe Samachson and original artist was Edmond Good. Though i wonder about the Samachson attribution tho... the strip replaced Liberty Belle written by Don Cameron and i feel he's a better fit for the strip. But O'Hearn says Samachson, so wadda i know?
Fred didn't show up until #72... but Samachson and Good could have just been filling in until Ray could get to it. France Ed Herron was the writer for alot of the better stories.
And reading anything after the Rangers show up feel like one of Boltinoff stable of writers just wrote scripts and he just stamped "Tomahawk", "Blackhawk" or "Challengers" on them and sent them to Dillin, Ray or Brown and they just changed the look of the characters! (or just sent it to Brown if the other two were busy!!)
-z
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 16, 2020 15:24:44 GMT -5
Anybody have an idea if Incredible Hulk #6 was done Marvel-style or full script? I want to know who to blame for the Hulk having Banner's head. Cei-U! do you know?
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Post by Cei-U! on Jun 16, 2020 17:08:32 GMT -5
Anybody have an idea if Incredible Hulk #6 was done Marvel-style or full script? I want to know who to blame for the Hulk having Banner's head. Cei-U! do you know? I'm reasonably sure it was done Marvel-style and that the Hulk-with-Banner's-head bit was Ditko's idea. It seems like the kind of stylistic quirk he'd indulge, given his fascination with duality.
Cei-U! I summon the educated guess!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 16, 2020 17:39:54 GMT -5
Anybody have an idea if Incredible Hulk #6 was done Marvel-style or full script? I want to know who to blame for the Hulk having Banner's head. Cei-U! do you know? I'm reasonably sure it was done Marvel-style and that the Hulk-with-Banner's-head bit was Ditko's idea. It seems like the kind of stylistic quirk he'd indulge, given his fascination with duality.
Cei-U! I summon the educated guess!
I'll be sure to blame him then. The Banner head is kind of quirky fun. The random Hulk head mask is a step too far.
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Post by sabongero on Jun 24, 2020 14:30:34 GMT -5
Didn't Catwoman/Selena Kyle have a baby daughter in the brief "One Year Later" mini-era? Whatever happened to that baby, and is it canon or was retconned out?
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Post by tartanphantom on Jun 28, 2020 16:30:42 GMT -5
Just wondering if anybody knows of a checklist or database of artwork "job numbers"? I know that DC used them, as well as some other publishers. But I'll be darned if I can figure out a method to the madness when it comes to the numbering schemes.
I know that some entries on GCD contain job numbers as entered from the book itself, but has anybody compiled a list of them that references specific artists?
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Post by foxley on Jun 28, 2020 20:56:23 GMT -5
Didn't Catwoman/Selena Kyle have a baby daughter in the brief "One Year Later" mini-era? Whatever happened to that baby, and is it canon or was retconned out? In series, Selina gave the child up for adoption after deciding it was too dangerous for her to try to raise Helena after she was abducted by Film Freak and Angle Man.
Post-Flashpoint, I believe the child has been retconned out of existence, although I don't recall an official statement that that effect.
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