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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2022 13:40:35 GMT -5
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Post by tonebone on Aug 3, 2022 15:59:17 GMT -5
Yes, I was talking about American comic books.
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Post by tonebone on Aug 3, 2022 16:20:53 GMT -5
TV seriously wounded the comic book. The internet has killed them. There's just too much free, ever-changing entertainment out there to compete with paying 4 bucks for something you have to READ. Also, young people won't or CAN'T read, now. young Adult graphic novels is the fastest growing sector in US Publishing. so no, comics aren't dead and young folks are reading plenty. -M Look into how many of those YA GNs are purchased off the shelf, and how many are purchased en masse by library systems.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2022 16:31:08 GMT -5
young Adult graphic novels is the fastest growing sector in US Publishing. so no, comics aren't dead and young folks are reading plenty. -M Look into how many of those YA GNs are purchased off the shelf, and how many are purchased en masse by library systems. If you're going to do that, then you had better account for library circulation numbers too. The American Library Association has stated that YA graphic novels are among the most circulated items in library systems in America on several occasions and heartily endorsed programs by publishers who support lines of books for YA readers that libraries can purchase en masse for their clientele. Kids are reading them, whether you want to believe it or not. Look at the Book Scan reviews that Brian Hibbs does every year of what comic material is selling in the US mass market (as opposed to the direct market) and you will see a twenty year long trail of increasing sales of kids and YA GN even while periodical sales have crashed and burned. But comics don't have to be periodicals and just because periodical sales and readership are down doesn't mean comic sales and readership are down. Looking at "comics" as periodicals only is an obsolete POV. The market has evolved and perceptions of how comics are successful have to evolve too. And that's not even accounting for reading comics online via digital sales, subscription platforms like Marvel Unlimited and a host of webcomics either for free or via subscription. More people are reading comics than have at any point since the 1970s, even if the market model of the 70s-2000s no longer functions the way it did. Looking at the macro picture and not just the direct market model and definition of what a comic is, the data just doesn't support the position that no one is reading comics and that sales are down. Looking at the sales of just Scholastic Book services and their onsite sales and orders from students in schools and its growth of the last 20 years belies the idea that kids aren't buying and reading comics. They are, in droves, just not periodical super-hero comics. -M
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 3, 2022 19:12:45 GMT -5
I've been out of bookselling for 8 years now; but, in general, the problems of getting kids to read was more in the area of young boys. Girls read at far higher proportions and also at higher levels. They constituted a large segment of the YA market, in my 20 years.
Kids today read more digitally than in print. Tablets are a regular part of school and they do a lot of their reading on them. One thing we discovered, in selling the Nook, was that teachers told us problem readers were more comfortable and self-assured with digital platforms. Since they didn't see the actual size of a book, just the words on the screen, they didn't have the same psychological reactions to the task of reading. Things like built-in dictionaries also allowed them to grasp new words better.
My experience was that kids read less for leisure; but so did their parents and that was also something lamented in previous generations.
Kids have different roles than their parents did and different stresses, which affects many things. I didn't spend my childhood worried about school shootings and practicing drills for such things. Fire and tornadoes were our terrors. We also were the first generation (Generation X) where both of our parents might be working, though that fluctuated a lot, in my peer group. We were the first "latch key" generation. We also didn't have the same levels of chemicals in our food and drink, in my younger days. We had more active lives, but I also grew up in a country town, not an urban neighborhood. My peers and I had a lot more freedom to roam around, until it got dark. Again, it was a small town; but, we weren't inundated with fear-mongering media stories, constantly. We did have our occasional hysteria, like the urban myths of people tampering with Halloween treats.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 3, 2022 19:16:44 GMT -5
ps I can attest that the stresses on educators are far higher today than with my father's generation of teachers (he taught for 37 years). So much class time is taken away from actual instruction and spent on things like standardized testing (taking or test prep). There are fewer arts taught. Resources in the average school district are far lower and salaries are abysmal. Large numbers of people who would have gone into the profession, in previous generations, have been scared or warned away from it. So, when a teacher laments about "kids today," I give them slack, as it is part of the stresses they face and as much a reflection on the distractions away from real learning and discovery.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 3, 2022 19:41:13 GMT -5
We also were the first generation (Generation X) where both of our parents might be working, though that fluctuated a lot, in my peer group. We were the first "latch key" generation. Except that we weren’t. I know this is only tangentially related to the topic but it’s another of my bugaboos so let’s go ahead. This is an incredibly upper and middle class view of a very short-lived phenomenon one centered on post-WWII America and our incredibly short attention span. For the entire history of the US in almost all immigrant families both parents worked in order to survive. As they were able to do better economically and move up the ladder it didn’t necessarily change as evolve. Small businesses involved every member of the family working. Family farms involved all members of the family working including Mom. I can’t find numbers for the US, but upwards of 57% of factory workers in Britain during the industrial revolution were women. Many of the “stay-at-home” Moms historically were taking in sewing, doing piece-work, taking in washing, etc. Leave It to Beaver and Donna Reed convinced a couple of generations that that fantasy was a reality and always had been and we are still paying a price for it.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 3, 2022 19:55:55 GMT -5
I'm going to hit pause here briefly. Regularly scheduled programming will resume momentarily.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,627
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Post by Confessor on Aug 5, 2022 12:10:24 GMT -5
Sorry for that interruption, ladies and gentlemen. Regular programming will now continue.
Please play nice.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 12:15:21 GMT -5
Look at this, please: And this: Okay, I do use a search engine before I ask questions here, but when it comes to precision, they are crap. I remember trying to find the issue where Superman fought Penguin once (a member here pointed me in the right direction), but no matter how I phrased it, the image search just kept finding penguins with Superman insignia on. So I have tried precision as usual, but it hasn’t worked. So… Did the Riddler ever wear a costume like that in the comics? Is there a comicbook premise/story behind that peculiar vehicle the Penguin is standing by? The van looks like a Volkswagen Campervan. The steel net (if that is what it is) doesn’t look like it could hold anyone taller than a few feet. I realise merchandise can be tenuous - such as that terrible Justice Jogger by Kenner - but it never hurts to ask, so do the above images have any comicbook origins?
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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 7, 2022 12:27:29 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 12:45:15 GMT -5
driver1980 - The Riddler outfit is based on the 1977 Filmation cartoon The New Adventures of Batman, so not comic book appearance based, but it does have history from TV (shot from the opening credits):
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 12:47:46 GMT -5
Thanks, guys!
Ah, I did see that series on R1 DVD, but I totally forgot about that Riddler colour. You know, that was a bizarre cartoon. I watched it around Christmas 2019. Not a single punch was thrown in any episode (censorship?). Just a net thrown over a bad guy or something. Joker lived in a mansion with a hyena, and he appeared to know the location of the Batcave. Good fun, but bizarre.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,451
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Post by shaxper on Aug 7, 2022 14:20:24 GMT -5
I'm making my way through The Spirit for the first time and wondering if the non-Eisner stories printed while Eisner was enlisted are worth reading. If not, which volumes of The Spirit archives do I need to skip?
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Aug 7, 2022 14:41:04 GMT -5
I'm making my way through The Spirit for the first time and wondering if the non-Eisner stories printed while Eisner was enlisted are worth reading. If not, which volumes of The Spirit archives do I need to skip? I'm by no means an expert on The Spirit, but the consensus is that the period from Eisner's return to around 1950 is the Golden period and essential reading. I've read bits and pieces of the early years, but I've never seen much praise for the non-Eisner war years. The early 50s have a pretty cool moon storyline with art by Wally Wood just before the strip ended
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