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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 7, 2022 15:14:19 GMT -5
driver1980 - The Riddler outfit is based on the 1977 Filmation cartoon The New Adventures of Batman, so not comic book appearance based, but it does have history from TV (shot from the opening credits): That's a color error in the cel. He is depicted in a green outfit, with purple/magenta gloves and mask, in the cartoons.... It was not uncommon to get such errors, especially since the cels were painted on the back side. The Super Friends cartoons had repeated instances where the bat symbol coloring was reversed (yellow bat in a black oval). The vehicle thing is a way to sell toys. Joker did have a Jokermobile, though and the Filmation cartoons gave Catwoman her own car.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 16:48:28 GMT -5
driver1980 - The Riddler outfit is based on the 1977 Filmation cartoon The New Adventures of Batman, so not comic book appearance based, but it does have history from TV (shot from the opening credits): That's a color error in the cel. He is depicted in a green outfit, with purple/magenta gloves and mask, in the cartoons.... It was not uncommon to get such errors, especially since the cels were painted on the back side. The Super Friends cartoons had repeated instances where the bat symbol coloring was reversed (yellow bat in a black oval). The vehicle thing is a way to sell toys. Joker did have a Jokermobile, though and the Filmation cartoons gave Catwoman her own car. So if my recollection is correct, it's actually a little more complicated with the Riddler. While he appears in a pink suit in the 1977 series in the opening scene, he didn't appear in any of the actual episodes. I believe he couldn't be used because Hanna-Barbera had the rights at that time for the character for Challenge of the Super Friends (though somehow still again showing up in the credits). The episode above is from the earlier late 60's Filmation Batman series, which you are correct, he was in his green outfit. I'm not sure if the pink Riddler suit was an intentional redesign like the Catwoman (her suit was intentionally redesigned with a new color scheme from the 60's show to the 70's show), or if it was truly a color cel error? Though yes, you are of course correct that was not an uncommon occurrence. But in any case, it was a memorable color switch and the basis for the figure design homage.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 17:03:26 GMT -5
It isn’t a bad colour scheme, if I’m honest. I don’t always like changes - such as that costume Wonder Man wore - but I think that Riddler looks okay. No wonder I don’t remember him in that Filmation series if he only appeared in the credits.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 7, 2022 18:10:31 GMT -5
It isn’t a bad colour scheme, if I’m honest. I don’t always like changes - such as that costume Wonder Man wore - but I think that Riddler looks okay. No wonder I don’t remember him in that Filmation series if he only appeared in the credits. Well, there are two Filmation series. The is The Adventures of Batman, which was part of the Batman/Superman Hour, from 1968-69 (and syndicated seperately, as The Adv of batman) and there is The New Adventures of Batman, from 1977. The Riddler appeared in the original. but does not in the second, as he was part of the Legion of Doom and Challenge of the Super Friends, while Joker and Penguin were not allowed to be used for the Legion (though Alex Toth had them in conceptual art). The 60s cartoon has Joker, Penguin, Riddler, catwoman, Mr Freeze, Scarecrow, Dollman, Simon the Pieman, and Mad Hatter. Batgirl appears in some episodes. Olan Soule and Casey Kasem voice Batman & Robin and Ted Knight does most of the villains. The 70s has Adam West & Burt Ward voice the heroes and len Weinrib do many of the villains. Villains include: Joker, Catwoman, Mr Freeze, Clayface, Moonman, Sweet Tooth, Professor Bubbles, Electro, Penguin, Chameleon, Dr Devious, and Zarbor, an enemy of Bat-Mite. Batgirl appears and so does Bat-Mite (voiced by Lou Scheimer, with the same voice he used for Orko, in He-Man). The 60s series followed on the heels of the Adam West series and the heroes traded punches and kicks with the villains, leading to backlash for watchdog groups about violence in Saturday morning cartoons and restrictions that prevented the 70s Batman and Robin from doing anything other than snaring the villains in Bat-lines and nets and such. I misremembered the opening of the New Adv. Here is the clip, with the Riddler in pink, but never seen in the series.... Batman & Robin also appeared on Sesame Street, in 3 segments..... (That's 1 from the pilot, and two from the series, "Crossing the Street" and "Up, Around and through")
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 19:32:56 GMT -5
driver1980 - The Riddler outfit is based on the 1977 Filmation cartoon The New Adventures of Batman, so not comic book appearance based, but it does have history from TV (shot from the opening credits): The van has no correlation but it is a retro duplicate of some of the accessories put out for the Mego Word's Greatest Super-Heroes line in the 70s. There was a Batman van and a Spider-Man mobile crime lad (which is the same van, molded in yellow & red with Spider-Man related stickers instead of Batman ones. I had the Spidey van as a kid. That Riddler figure is from a series done by Figures Toy Company based on the New Adventures of Batman animated series, so not just the Riddler figure takes its cues from that animated series, the whole line based on it does. -M
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Post by tartanphantom on Aug 7, 2022 21:10:08 GMT -5
I'm making my way through The Spirit for the first time and wondering if the non-Eisner stories printed while Eisner was enlisted are worth reading. If not, which volumes of The Spirit archives do I need to skip?
One thing to remember is that during the war years, even though Eisner wasn't doing the actual illustration, he was still responsible for the bulk of the scripts, which were done several at a time. Eisner was stateside working at the Pentagon for a portion of his service, which allowed him to script even though he didn't have the time for drawing. Consequentially, he still exercised creative control over the character. The artwork isn't bad, as Lou Fine and Jack Cole did a large portion of it during these years. Nevertheless, it is definitely not Eisner art.
As an Eisnerphile, I still enjoy that period quite a bit, it's different but the spirit (pun intended) of the character still remains throughout.
Even so, the postwar period from 1946 onward is far and away the best in terms of the storytelling.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 7, 2022 21:41:56 GMT -5
I'm making my way through The Spirit for the first time and wondering if the non-Eisner stories printed while Eisner was enlisted are worth reading. If not, which volumes of The Spirit archives do I need to skip?
One thing to remember is that during the war years, even though Eisner wasn't doing the actual illustration, he was still responsible for the bulk of the scripts, which were done several at a time. Eisner was stateside working at the Pentagon for a portion of his service, which allowed him to script even though he didn't have the time for drawing. Consequentially, he still exercised creative control over the character. The artwork isn't bad, as Lou Fine and Jack Cole did a large portion of it during these years. Nevertheless, it is definitely not Eisner art.
As an Eisnerphile, I still enjoy that period quite a bit, it's different but the spirit (pun intended) of the character still remains throughout.
Even so, the postwar period from 1946 onward is far and away the best in terms of the storytelling.
Jules Feiffer also assisted Eisner with some of the writing in the post-war years
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Post by tartanphantom on Aug 7, 2022 22:01:15 GMT -5
One thing to remember is that during the war years, even though Eisner wasn't doing the actual illustration, he was still responsible for the bulk of the scripts, which were done several at a time. Eisner was stateside working at the Pentagon for a portion of his service, which allowed him to script even though he didn't have the time for drawing. Consequentially, he still exercised creative control over the character. The artwork isn't bad, as Lou Fine and Jack Cole did a large portion of it during these years. Nevertheless, it is definitely not Eisner art.
As an Eisnerphile, I still enjoy that period quite a bit, it's different but the spirit (pun intended) of the character still remains throughout.
Even so, the postwar period from 1946 onward is far and away the best in terms of the storytelling.
Jules Feiffer also assisted Eisner with some of the writing in the post-war years
That is correct. In fact, it was Jules who gently persuaded Eisner to retire the original version of the character, Ebony White.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2022 3:09:37 GMT -5
driver1980Here's a pic of that Spider-Man mobile crime lab from the 70s plus some other vintage vehicles that had no real comic corollary... Cap's car Hulk van and helicopter... maybe the Spidey Buggy is close enough to comics... and for the Pocket Heroes/Comic Action Heroes line they even started recycling Micronauts vehicles for the super-heroes in that scale... so there is a loooong tradition of this happening in super-hero toys. -M
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2022 3:27:59 GMT -5
Thank you, @mrp.
Even as a kid, some things seemed tenuous, and a Spidey crime lab is as tenuous as it gets, but I’m sure many people enjoyed them. As tenuous as that Hulk helicopter is, I could imagine playing with that had I seen it at the time.
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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 8, 2022 4:42:10 GMT -5
I'm making my way through The Spirit for the first time and wondering if the non-Eisner stories printed while Eisner was enlisted are worth reading. If not, which volumes of The Spirit archives do I need to skip?
One thing to remember is that during the war years, even though Eisner wasn't doing the actual illustration, he was still responsible for the bulk of the scripts, which were done several at a time. Eisner was stateside working at the Pentagon for a portion of his service, which allowed him to script even though he didn't have the time for drawing. Consequentially, he still exercised creative control over the character. The artwork isn't bad, as Lou Fine and Jack Cole did a large portion of it during these years. Nevertheless, it is definitely not Eisner art.
As an Eisnerphile, I still enjoy that period quite a bit, it's different but the spirit (pun intended) of the character still remains throughout.
Even so, the postwar period from 1946 onward is far and away the best in terms of the storytelling.
That is incorrect. Once he was out of boot camp and assigned to the Pentagon, Eisner contributed zero scripts for either the Sunday section or the daily strip. The writers were Toni Blum (until she got married and dropped out of comics altogether), Manly Wade Wellman, William Woolfolk, and occasionally Jack Cole. The stories they concocted are, almost without exception, better than 99% of what was running in other comic books of the era, though none could (or tried to) match Eisner for innovative storytelling. And Eisner had zero input into the strip while serving. In fact, he was generally unhappy with what the others were doing, despite their following his request not to make any significant changes to the premise or the characters (which is why so many non-Eisner episodes focus on Ebony and his love life). Eisner didn't return to the series until December '45, and the difference was immediately evident. So, to answer shax's original question, yes, those stories are totally worth reading. Just don't expect them to be Eisner.
Cei-U! I summon the world's most rumpled mystery man!
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Post by tartanphantom on Aug 8, 2022 7:32:36 GMT -5
One thing to remember is that during the war years, even though Eisner wasn't doing the actual illustration, he was still responsible for the bulk of the scripts, which were done several at a time. Eisner was stateside working at the Pentagon for a portion of his service, which allowed him to script even though he didn't have the time for drawing. Consequentially, he still exercised creative control over the character. The artwork isn't bad, as Lou Fine and Jack Cole did a large portion of it during these years. Nevertheless, it is definitely not Eisner art.
As an Eisnerphile, I still enjoy that period quite a bit, it's different but the spirit (pun intended) of the character still remains throughout.
Even so, the postwar period from 1946 onward is far and away the best in terms of the storytelling.
That is incorrect. Once he was out of boot camp and assigned to the Pentagon, Eisner contributed zero scripts for either the Sunday section or the daily strip. The writers were Toni Blum (until she got married and dropped out of comics altogether), Manly Wade Wellman, William Woolfolk, and occasionally Jack Cole. The stories they concocted are, almost without exception, better than 99% of what was running in other comic books of the era, though none could (or tried to) match Eisner for innovative storytelling. And Eisner had zero input into the strip while serving. In fact, he was generally unhappy with what the others were doing, despite their following his request not to make any significant changes to the premise or the characters (which is why so many non-Eisner episodes focus on Ebony and his love life). Eisner didn't return to the series until December '45, and the difference was immediately evident. So, to answer shax's original question, yes, those stories are totally worth reading. Just don't expect them to be Eisner.
Cei-U! I summon the world's most rumpled mystery man!
Thanks for the additional correction and clarification. I've seen mixed information on this, which I can now consider as apocryphal and inaccurate, as I trust you more than some exposition written in a dusty fanzine years back, which I was vaguely recalling from memory.
Where would we be without the sage knowledge of a Thunderbolt?
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Post by foxley on Aug 8, 2022 8:08:34 GMT -5
One thing to remember is that during the war years, even though Eisner wasn't doing the actual illustration, he was still responsible for the bulk of the scripts, which were done several at a time. Eisner was stateside working at the Pentagon for a portion of his service, which allowed him to script even though he didn't have the time for drawing. Consequentially, he still exercised creative control over the character. The artwork isn't bad, as Lou Fine and Jack Cole did a large portion of it during these years. Nevertheless, it is definitely not Eisner art.
As an Eisnerphile, I still enjoy that period quite a bit, it's different but the spirit (pun intended) of the character still remains throughout.
Even so, the postwar period from 1946 onward is far and away the best in terms of the storytelling.
That is incorrect. Once he was out of boot camp and assigned to the Pentagon, Eisner contributed zero scripts for either the Sunday section or the daily strip. The writers were Toni Blum (until she got married and dropped out of comics altogether), Manly Wade Wellman, William Woolfolk, and occasionally Jack Cole. The stories they concocted are, almost without exception, better than 99% of what was running in other comic books of the era, though none could (or tried to) match Eisner for innovative storytelling. And Eisner had zero input into the strip while serving. In fact, he was generally unhappy with what the others were doing, despite their following his request not to make any significant changes to the premise or the characters (which is why so many non-Eisner episodes focus on Ebony and his love life). Eisner didn't return to the series until December '45, and the difference was immediately evident. So, to answer shax's original question, yes, those stories are totally worth reading. Just don't expect them to be Eisner.
Cei-U! I summon the world's most rumpled mystery man!
Okay, I am fascinated to learn that Manly Wade Wellman wrote stories for the Spirit. I love his 'Silver John' stories but had no idea he ever wrote for comics.
One of the many reasons I love this site is how I can still discover something new about this hobby I love so much.
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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 8, 2022 9:06:11 GMT -5
Wellman was all over comics in the '40s and '50s. He wrote Captain Marvel, Captain America, Plastic Man, Aquaman, Blackhawk, Bulletman, The Phantom Stranger, Spy Smasher, and Tarantula, as well as dozens of Spirit stories.
Cei-U! I summon the credits tonnage!
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 8, 2022 9:45:50 GMT -5
Wellman was all over comics in the '40s and '50s. He wrote Captain Marvel, Captain America, Plastic Man, Aquaman, Blackhawk, Bulletman, The Phantom Stranger, Spy Smasher, and Tarantula, as well as dozens of Spirit stories. Cei-U! I summon the credits tonnage! Wellman began as a prolific pulp writer, much of it in the SF genre as well as others. Many of his longer stories were reprinted in early paperback books
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