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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 27, 2023 11:02:25 GMT -5
Kingpin, She Hulk, The Rhino…
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Post by tartanphantom on Jan 27, 2023 11:27:55 GMT -5
Kingpin, She Hulk, The Rhino…
ZZZZZzzzzzzzz....
I'd give Lee more credit for having a hand in the creation of Marvel Value Stamps. What a way to sell more books-- encourage mutilation of your own comics for somewhat nebulous promise of something of value in the future?
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Post by MDG on Jan 27, 2023 11:31:41 GMT -5
The fan community seems to put a lot of emphasis on a creator's ability to churn out characters that get re-used and recycled rather than the individual stories they create.
Archie Goodwin and Alex Toth are probably two of the best and most consistent creators ever and they aren't known for "creating a bunch of characters." But judged by the stories they produced, they should rank pretty high on any list of writers/artists. Ditto Kurtzman, Eisner, Los Bros (though they tend to have sprawling casts), Clowes.
Stan Lee would've done his legacy a big favor if instead of saying "I created everything," he said "I was the frikkin' Leo Burnett and Max Perkins of comics."
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 27, 2023 12:15:45 GMT -5
Kingpin, She Hulk, The Rhino…
ZZZZZzzzzzzzz....
I'd give Lee more credit for having a hand in the creation of Marvel Value Stamps. What a way to sell more books-- encourage mutilation of your own comics for somewhat nebulous promise of something of value in the future?
Kingpin, starred in a TV show. She Hulk starred in a TV show. Creeper? Mr. A ?
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 27, 2023 12:58:03 GMT -5
ZZZZZzzzzzzzz....
I'd give Lee more credit for having a hand in the creation of Marvel Value Stamps. What a way to sell more books-- encourage mutilation of your own comics for somewhat nebulous promise of something of value in the future?
Kingpin, starred in a TV show. She Hulk starred in a TV show. Creeper? Mr. A ? Blue Beetle is getting his own movie, Shade became a hit Vertigo series, Captain Atom and the Question continue to be part of the DCU.
For a guy who claimed to create everything, what he did before and after Kirby and Ditko is more than telling.
And for your info, Mr. A was highly creative, for all it's weird Randian craziness.
Funny thing about She-Hulk, this wasn't some great inspirational moment for Lee. Marvel Corporate needed the character created because Universal, who had the TV rights, was about to create one to go along with the Incredible Hulk TV show. The way Bionic Woman was created to go with the 6 million Dollar Man. Lee wrote the first issue to get himself creator rights and then turned it over to other writers.
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Post by badwolf on Jan 27, 2023 12:58:20 GMT -5
I always get Mr. A and Mr. E confused.
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Post by MDG on Jan 27, 2023 13:36:57 GMT -5
I always get Mr. A and Mr. E confused. That's 'cause Mr. A is a mystery
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 27, 2023 14:59:03 GMT -5
I always get Mr. A and Mr. E confused. Maybe because they both suk.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 27, 2023 16:09:36 GMT -5
Kingpin, She Hulk, The Rhino… Kingpin: one of the most significant villains for Spider-Man and Daredevil, but it must be said that John Romita co-created the character. That said, Kingpin's reach extended to many adaptations, starting with the 1967-70 Spider-Man cartoon, and in every Spider-related cartoon to date, including, but not limited to the '79 Spider-Woman series, Spider-Man & Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends cartoons (1981 & 1982, respectively), the '94 animated series, and eventually in movies and TV series leading up to this era, so this is a major creation with--arguably--more adaptation screen time than other more "mainstream" Marvel villains, indicating his importance to the Marvel canon in and out of comics.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 16:37:48 GMT -5
This is making me think through the Spider-Man rogues. The output with Ditko was just on another level: Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Scorpion, Mysterio, Electro, Sandman, Kraven, Lizard, and Vulture. I really can't see any other period of Spidey coming close.
Rhino and Shocker were my favorite early Romita era (I put them up there with the villains above), but honestly no really big ones for me after that until probably Hobgoblin.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 27, 2023 16:46:05 GMT -5
This is making me think through the Spider-Man rogues. The output with Ditko was just on another level: Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Scorpion, Mysterio, Electro, Sandman, Kraven, Lizard, and Vulture. I really can't see any other period of Spidey coming close. Rhino and Shocker were my favorite early Romita era (I put them up there with the villains above), but honestly no really big ones for me after that until probably Hobgoblin. Green Goblin did not become a legendary villain (arguably Marvel's best) until the Lee/Romita era. His every appearance from that period (and into the Conway era) was a level of complex, foreboding interpersonal tension that was not typical of that which was created during the Ditko period.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 27, 2023 16:55:45 GMT -5
Leave us not forget the Gibbon, aka the newest Marvel Super-Star!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 17:04:58 GMT -5
This is making me think through the Spider-Man rogues. The output with Ditko was just on another level: Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Scorpion, Mysterio, Electro, Sandman, Kraven, Lizard, and Vulture. I really can't see any other period of Spidey coming close. Rhino and Shocker were my favorite early Romita era (I put them up there with the villains above), but honestly no really big ones for me after that until probably Hobgoblin. Green Goblin did not become a legendary villain (arguably Marvel's best) until the Lee/Romita era. His every appearance from that period (and into the Conway era) was a level of complex, foreboding interpersonal tension that was not typical of that which was created during the Ditko period. I'm really not a big fan of that later era, and I still associate the Green Goblin with the single worst moment in Spidey history with the death of Gwen Stacy. Harry breaking down and assuming the mantle at times I also found depressing. I kind of cringe every time I look at the cover of ASM #39 first because no more Ditko, but second because I know how much misery the start of that Goblin era was going to continue to bring. Hobgoblin made things a little more refreshing to me again though in the 80's. But yeah, I do see your point that regardless of personal taste, the character did significantly evolve creatively during that time.
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Post by commond on Jan 27, 2023 17:27:04 GMT -5
I liked the Tarantula. He had some great fight scenes with Spidey. It was a bummer what Stern did to him. I don't see what's inherently sillier about Tarantula compared to Ditko villains like the Sandman, Electro, Mysterio, the Vulture, or Scorpion. I'll admit that I'm a pretty big admirer of bronze age Spidey, which I think is one of the better post-Silver Age Marvel titles, so it's easy for me to buy in on villains like The Jackal and so forth. At least they were trying to come up with new villains for him to face instead of recycling the same old opponents. I also don't buy that no one should be a match for Spidey in a fight. The Spider-man I grew up with should not be able to fight like Batman. He should be out fought, over powered, and defeated from time to time. Otherwise, the stories would get boring quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 17:52:32 GMT -5
I liked the Tarantula. He had some great fight scenes with Spidey. It was a bummer what Stern did to him. I don't see what's inherently sillier about Tarantula compared to Ditko villains like the Sandman, Electro, Mysterio, the Vulture, or Scorpion. I'll admit that I'm a pretty big admirer of bronze age Spidey, which I think is one of the better post-Silver Age Marvel titles, so it's easy for me to buy in on villains like The Jackal and so forth. At least they were trying to come up with new villains for him to face instead of recycling the same old opponents. I also don't buy that no one should be a match for Spidey in a fight. The Spider-man I grew up with should not be able to fight like Batman. He should be out fought, over powered, and defeated from time to time. Otherwise, the stories would get boring quickly. I, too, like Tarantula. I think Bronze Age Spidey is underrated. And, like Commond, I don’t see what’s inherently sillier about him than countless other foes. Also, the likes of The Enforcers punched above their weight. Examine it too closely and one might ask how they could possibly challenge Spidey. They did, though. And I can imagine Tarantula doing the same. I know it’s a completely different argument, but as the live-action Spider-Man TV series didn’t feature supervillains, they had to sometimes allow regular thugs to go toe-to-toe with Spidey on occasion. Think about it too much and none of those TV villains - who would have been right at home in The A-Team - should have been a threat to Spidey, but it did create some good moments, such as the two-parter “The Deadly Dust” where one henchman, Angel, managed to hurt Spidey once or twice. So I have no real problem with Tarantula posing a threat to the web-slinger.
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