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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 14, 2023 21:16:31 GMT -5
What is the source of the Staton quotes? Not questioning it; just I don't recall ever coming across that one. The biggest discussion I ever saw was the Comic Book Artist two issue look at Charlton, which Staton took part in (Cuti, too, I think, but wouldn't swear to). If it is that, then I just didn't recall them saying that. I do recall that type of circumstance in Baron & Rude regaining Nexus, via Dark Horse. The latter part of the Staton quotes sounds familiar, like the CBA articles. If it was CBA, then I must of overlooked that statement, while staring at a Staton drawing of Nova or one of his other Charlton ladies (he drew his women.....healthy, in those days). Comic Book Artist #12, and here's a link to the excerpted interview, it's down a bit: twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/12staton.htmlI must have been bedazzled by the bazooms on Baroness von Bludd, then, as I had that issue and she appears on the side of that page. I actually had a letter printed in CBA #14 (Tower Comics and Wally Wood), commenting on issue #12 and the Charlton features (page 7, Jeff Nettleton, Springfield, IL....back then).
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 14, 2023 21:25:27 GMT -5
Slight correction here; Charlton did publish the Blue Beetle & Question team-up, in Charlton Bullseye #1 (comic book version, not the fanzine version). The Americomics Special #1, featuring Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, The Question and Nightshade, as the Sentinels of Justice was published with unused material from Charlton Bullseye (they had an inventory of material, when Charlton cancelled the title); and, Americomics #3 was published with two Blue Beetle stories, the lead story featuring the Ted Kord version battling the Dan Garrett version, who turns out to be a robot. The Question did not appear in that comic. By that point, DC had finalized their purchase. Americomics was also supposed to publish an unused Atomic mouse story, as well as more Blue Beetle and Captain Atom. However, with the sale to DC, their agreements with Charlton were out the window, as revealed int he Americomics special. Thanks for the correction. I was relying on my notoriously faulty memory, bolstered by a quick visit to Wikipedia.
Bur at least I can take comfort that I didn't imagine AC publishing the Charlton characters. Oh, no. I saw those issues in a bookstore, which was getting Direct Market comics and flipped through Americomics #3 and bought the Special, since it had the whole gang (later found AC #3, while in college and snapped it up). I was specifically drawn to it since it had the Charlton heroes, of whom I had a brief encounter. Through a cousin, I had read a Blue Beetle (telling Ted Kord's encounter with Dan Garrett, in a reprint, I think) and I had seen the Charlton Bullseye #1, with The Question and a house ad or a reprint of a Captain Atom, somewhere. I had a couple of Don Newton Phantoms and later got a couple of Modern Comics reprints (E-Man #1, Hercules #10, Attack #13), before picking up a few scattered comics, later. One of the originals I found was #3, with the Madmen, who appeared in the Americomics Special). I was excited to see the AC Special, thinking they would have more Charlton heroes, then read the end line and had to wait for DC to get around to it.
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Post by foxley on Oct 15, 2023 5:35:06 GMT -5
While sorting through my Arak, Son of Thunder collection to work out which issues I am still missing, I discovered that #45 has a pin-up of Valda by a young Todd McFarlane. In the commentary, Roy Thomas mentions that Todd is doing the artwork on a forthcoming Valda, the Iron Maiden miniseries.
This is the first I've ever heard of this. Obviously, the miniseries never eventuated, but Roy talks about it like it is in the bag and will be coming out in a few months. Does anyone know any details about this project and why it never eventuated? This was 1985, and would have been not long after Todd took on the art duties on Infinity, Inc. Maybe the forthcoming Crisis caused DC to put the kibosh on it (and Arak itself only lasted another 5 issues), but I am curious. I'd be especially interested in seeing any art from it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2023 13:31:26 GMT -5
Did DC ever go after Marvel over the Squadron Supreme? It feels like a copycat nod in a regular title like when they showed up in the Avengers was a bit more parody, but when it evolved into stuff like the standalone limited series in 1985, at that point you could sort of argue it was a quasi-JLA title.
And yes, I'm aware of the bazillion other copycat references over the years in plenty of other titles (like say Cockrum's Legion copy in X-Men or the tons of "superhero deconstruction" comics), but more curious in this specific case if DC felt like it crossed the line at some point.
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Post by MWGallaher on Oct 15, 2023 16:30:11 GMT -5
While sorting through my Arak, Son of Thunder collection to work out which issues I am still missing, I discovered that #45 has a pin-up of Valda by a young Todd McFarlane. In the commentary, Roy Thomas mentions that Todd is doing the artwork on a forthcoming Valda, the Iron Maiden miniseries. This is the first I've ever heard of this. Obviously, the miniseries never eventuated, but Roy talks about it like it is in the bag and will be coming out in a few months. Does anyone know any details about this project and why it never eventuated? This was 1985, and would have been not long after Todd took on the art duties on Infinity, Inc. Maybe the forthcoming Crisis caused DC to put the kibosh on it (and Arak itself only lasted another 5 issues), but I am curious. I'd be especially interested in seeing any art from it. Thomas also promised a Helix series that never eventuated, either (and I'd forgotten that Arak was a member of that group, somehow!). It may have been a case of attempting to apply pressure for a greenlight by promoting the proposals as done deals?
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 15, 2023 18:24:32 GMT -5
While sorting through my Arak, Son of Thunder collection to work out which issues I am still missing, I discovered that #45 has a pin-up of Valda by a young Todd McFarlane. In the commentary, Roy Thomas mentions that Todd is doing the artwork on a forthcoming Valda, the Iron Maiden miniseries. This is the first I've ever heard of this. Obviously, the miniseries never eventuated, but Roy talks about it like it is in the bag and will be coming out in a few months. Does anyone know any details about this project and why it never eventuated? This was 1985, and would have been not long after Todd took on the art duties on Infinity, Inc. Maybe the forthcoming Crisis caused DC to put the kibosh on it (and Arak itself only lasted another 5 issues), but I am curious. I'd be especially interested in seeing any art from it. Thomas also promised a Helix series that never eventuated, either (and I'd forgotten that Arak was a member of that group, somehow!). It may have been a case of attempting to apply pressure for a greenlight by promoting the proposals as done deals? Helix's Arak was a descendent of the original.
Cei-U! I summon the simple answer!
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 15, 2023 19:12:32 GMT -5
Did DC ever go after Marvel over the Squadron Supreme? It feels like a copycat nod in a regular title like when they showed up in the Avengers was a bit more parody, but when it evolved into stuff like the standalone limited series in 1985, at that point you could sort of argue it was a quasi-JLA title. And yes, I'm aware of the bazillion other copycat references over the years in plenty of other titles (like say Cockrum's Legion copy in X-Men or the tons of "superhero deconstruction" comics), but more curious in this specific case if DC felt like it crossed the line at some point. I think the big companies stopped wasting their time and money going after copycats. The squadron and the starguard never put a dent in the original versions sales wise so why bother ?
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Post by tonebone on Oct 16, 2023 8:57:50 GMT -5
Americomics did briefly license the rights to the Charlton 'Action Heroes' in 1983 just before DC bought them outright. The published a Blue Beetle/Question team-up that had originally been intended for Charlton Bullseye, and did a one-shot of a team called the Sentinels of Justice consisting of Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, the Question and Nightshade. After they lost the rights, they kept the Sentinels name and created a new team to fill it, although Scarlet Scorpion was Blue Beetle with the serial numbers filed off. Slight correction here; Charlton did publish the Blue Beetle & Question team-up, in Charlton Bullseye #1 (comic book version, not the fanzine version). The Americomics Special #1, featuring Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, The Question and Nightshade, as the Sentinels of Justice was published with unused material from Charlton Bullseye (they had an inventory of material, when Charlton cancelled the title); and, Americomics #3 was published with two Blue Beetle stories, the lead story featuring the Ted Kord version battling the Dan Garrett version, who turns out to be a robot. The Question did not appear in that comic. By that point, DC had finalized their purchase. Americomics was also supposed to publish an unused Atomic mouse story, as well as more Blue Beetle and Captain Atom. However, with the sale to DC, their agreements with Charlton were out the window, as revealed int he Americomics special. Here are editorial explanations, from those comics: Americomics #3, featuring Blue Beetle..... From the end of the Sentinels of Justice story, in the Americomics Special #1 That Americomics Special was awesome! The backgrounds were inked by the incredible Matt Feazell, of Cynicalman fame. This was of particular interest to me at the time, as he was also inking some of 15-year-old me's comics for a mini-comics publisher. My inky brush with fame!
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Post by Dizzy D on Oct 17, 2023 8:34:17 GMT -5
Did DC ever go after Marvel over the Squadron Supreme? It feels like a copycat nod in a regular title like when they showed up in the Avengers was a bit more parody, but when it evolved into stuff like the standalone limited series in 1985, at that point you could sort of argue it was a quasi-JLA title. And yes, I'm aware of the bazillion other copycat references over the years in plenty of other titles (like say Cockrum's Legion copy in X-Men or the tons of "superhero deconstruction" comics), but more curious in this specific case if DC felt like it crossed the line at some point. I think the big companies stopped wasting their time and money going after copycats. The squadron and the starguard never put a dent in the original versions sales wise so why bother ? Also the Squadron appeared at the exact same time as the Champions of Angor (The Avengers) in DC, so it was pretty much an unofficial crossover at the time.
The Champions of Angor and its associated characters did never got as much use as Marvel got out of the Squadron (I think Blue Jay and the Silver Sorceress were League members for a few nanoseconds and I knew there was a Lord Havok (Dr. Doom) mini-series a few years ago).
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 17, 2023 11:53:50 GMT -5
As to why DC didn't go after them: it was a parody and they knew they were on shaky ground if they tried and Marvel wasn't likely to be intimidated. Plus, I think they saw it for what is was, hence the Champions of Angor.
Giffen and DeMatteis got a bit more than a few nanoseconds out of them. After reintroducing them, Blue Jay and Silver Sorceress stuck around for a short time; but, In Justice League Europe, they did a long storyline about the villains from Angor, who were pastiches of Marvel's villains (mostly Spidey villains), which was quite good. Still, not as much mileage as Marvel did with the Squadron.
DC also poked fun at Marvel in Inferior 5.
Giffen and company also poked fun at other Marvel characters and stories, with Lord Manga Khan and L-Ron (spoofing Dr Doom and Galactus, to a point), General Glory, Kooie-Kooie (spoofing Krakoa).
Byrne had a Mxyzptlk story where you see him, as the Impossible man, harassing the FF, then hop dimensions to be himself and mess with Supes, though the FF is altered enough to avoid a lawsuit. He also had Guy Gardner whoop on Star Brand, in Legends, though, again, altered just enough to satisfy the lawyers.
I think DC mellowed a bit, after trying to go after Mad.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2023 14:27:57 GMT -5
Yeah, there’s been all that back and forth parody stuff over the years for sure. But Squadron Supreme has now had 4 standalone series, plus an additional Squadron Sinister one, and they are action-based, not spoofs.
Agreed still not a major property for Marvel, so as mentioned probably not worth DC’s time. I wonder if it got the full MCU treatment if that might change things at all.
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 17, 2023 14:57:04 GMT -5
Yeah, there’s been all that back and forth parody stuff over the years for sure. But Squadron Supreme has now had 4 standalone series, plus an additional Squadron Sinister one, and they are action-based, not spoofs. Agreed still not a major property for Marvel, so as mentioned probably not worth DC’s time. I wonder if it got the full MCU treatment if that might change things at all. I think it's safe to assume there will never be a Squadron Supreme movie... and that's fine by me.
Cei-U! I summon the copycats!
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 17, 2023 15:12:53 GMT -5
Yeah, there’s been all that back and forth parody stuff over the years for sure. But Squadron Supreme has now had 4 standalone series, plus an additional Squadron Sinister one, and they are action-based, not spoofs. Agreed still not a major property for Marvel, so as mentioned probably not worth DC’s time. I wonder if it got the full MCU treatment if that might change things at all. The standalones, though, are a but divorced from what it was and the later ones are more a reaction to what Mark Gruenwald tried to do, in the first one. Personally, I think it lacks the depth of what Alan Moore had done in Marvelman and would do in Watchmen, though they tread in the same territory. Granted, Gruenwald was never as sophisticated a writer as Moore. I do think he had a good handle on the character archetypes and tried to do that kind of story, within the framework of the Justice League stories of the past, as he was more of a fan of the material than Moore (I think Supreme and the ABC line are more of Moore's personal fandom for the Silver Age). Supreme Power, to me, didn't really work, though I followed it with keen interest, at the start. However, Joe Straczynski had already done similar things on Rising Stars (but he had better artwork here, apart from Brent Anderson's RS work) and there was a certain sameness to things, while also repeating things that Moore and others had done. It started out interesting, if derivative; but, then it fell apart because he was too involved in Hollywood commitments. He seemed to be headed towards the Gruenwald future, of them taking over, then it kind of goes sideways, then the whole Ultimate Universe meets Supreme Power Universe thing, which didn't work for me. I had similar reaction to The Twelve. It started well, then lost its way, while delays happened (for a few reasons) and the ending, once it came, was rather a letdown. I think part of the problem, aside from outside distractions, was the overly large cast of characters, most of whom get little development. By contrast, I liked Brubaker's The Marvels Project, as it both celebrated the past and tweaked some things here and there, to modernize them and make them more logical. I especially liked the fact that the original Angel got some love and was an important element to the story, as he is probably the most overlooked of the characters from the very beginning. I don't mean the Second Stringers of the Liberty Legion and Invaders, or the Third Stringers of The Twelve (or the others, like Black Marvel, The Thunderer or Citizen V); but, they triumvirate that started it: Sub-Mariner, Human Torch and the Angel. He was Marvel's first human costumed mystery man and they seemed content to let him stay in obscurity, even though he had more going for him that some of the characters they did revive and use. I also like the fact that they tied him to Two Gun Kid, in his old age (decades, relatively) after he had time traveled and seen the future).i The Angel wasn't original, as he was a mash-up of The Saint and masked pulp detectives, like The Phantom Detective; but, it is something you can work with, rather than yet another costumed patriot or a guy who flattens his body and appeared in a few stories. I just wish it could have been something longer, to flesh out the Timely Golden Age, for a modern audience. They did more of that with Agents of Atlas and similar things, with their Atlas characters.
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Post by commond on Oct 17, 2023 17:08:26 GMT -5
Giffen and DeMatteis' parody of Galactus was Mr. Nebula, the Interplanetary Designer. His herald was the Scarlet Skier, who was G'Nort's arch nemesis.
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Post by jason on Oct 20, 2023 16:23:51 GMT -5
I've noticed in older Marvel titles, on the subscription forms, there would usually be a date on the bottom. For example, grabbing a random comic from my collection, Hercules #1 (the 1982 miniseries) has the date "May 82" at the bottom of the subscription form. Is this the actual month (as opposed to the cover date), the comic in question was released or is it something else?
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