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Post by zaku on Jan 2, 2024 11:56:56 GMT -5
Perhaps I missed something, but why in the 78 movie Luthor was sure that Kryptonite was harmful to Superman? And how did he know that particular green rock came from the same planet of the Man of Steel?
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Post by MDG on Jan 2, 2024 12:53:53 GMT -5
Perhaps I missed something, but why in the 78 movie Luthor was sure that Kryptonite was harmful to Superman? And how did he know that particular green rock came from the same planet of the Man of Steel? I don't think the movie went into detail, but I recall that Luthor went through an old National Geographic to find a story about a meteorite that landed in Ethiopia around the same time Superman would've come to earth. I don't know how Luthor got the idea that it would be harmful to Kryptonians.
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Post by zaku on Jan 2, 2024 13:10:41 GMT -5
Perhaps I missed something, but why in the 78 movie Luthor was sure that Kryptonite was harmful to Superman? And how did he know that particular green rock came from the same planet of the Man of Steel? I don't think the movie went into detail, but I recall that Luthor went through an old National Geographic to find a story about a meteorite that landed in Ethiopia around the same time Superman would've come to earth. I don't know how Luthor got the idea that it would be harmful to Kryptonians. Thank you. I had always wondered if it was me who didn't understand something.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 2, 2024 13:15:34 GMT -5
That made me think of Ross Webster in Superman III. He had Gus Gorman use a satellite to look for debris from Krypton, so that Superman could be harmed.
Now, Luthor did what he did in the first movie, but was jailed. Did he tell the underworld about Kryptonite? If so, how did Ross Webster hear about it? Zaku’s question is a good one, and I wonder if the same applies to Ross Webster.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 2, 2024 13:20:00 GMT -5
Sometimes, writers assume a character knows what we do.
A little different, but in The A-Team, they were pursued by military police colonels, the first one being Lynch. Then Col. Decker. Now, in a third season episode - “Showdown” - Lynch is given one more chance to apprehend the A-Team, so he and his MPs lie in wait near a travelling rodeo show, where the A-Team are working. In one scene, Hannibal tells the team to wear disguises, his words are something like, “Lynch could be watching us.” Yet at that point in the show, Lynch had been relieved of that duty and Decker had been pursuing them. So Hannibal had no reason to know that Lynch was out there spying on them.
It’s not a big issue, and is different from what Zaku raised, but it’s a reminder of how writers forget that characters and viewers are different things. Logically, you could argue that there’s no specific reason why Luthor or Webster should believe rocks from Superman’s home planet would be harmful to him.
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Post by zaku on Jan 2, 2024 18:24:10 GMT -5
Ok, out of curiosity I watched the scene more carefully (I hadn't seen the film in a while). According to the excellent movie-censorship site it is one of the scenes that was not changed in either the Extended Edition or the Directors Cut. The dialogues are taken from subtitles (I wrote only the relevant parts). (Luthor is fiddling with what appears to be a slide rule while consulting a book whose title I can't read. Otis and Teschmacher are reading the Lois' interview to Superman) Luthor: Now, then... given the exact location of the galaxy that he mentions... and the proximity to our own solar system... it's amazing! Amazing! Too good to be true! [...] L.: In the interview, he says that the planet Krypton exploded in 1948. Ridiculous little freak took three years in a rocket ship to get to Earth. [...] L.: Fragments from the planet Krypton exploded and went into outer space. L.: It is reasonable to assume that some of those particles of debris drifted to Earth. (Why it should be "reasonable"? Krypton was literally in another galaxy). Teschmacher: Meteorites! [...] (Luthor tears a page from a book and throws it towards O. and T.) T.: A meteorite found in Addis Ababa? Uh, I know I'm gonna get rapped in the mouth for this, but so what? L.: So what? You mean, to us they are just meteorites. Fair enough. But the level of specific radioactivity is so high to anyone from the planet Krypton, this substance is lethal. (WTF?!?!) Okay, this is worse than I remember. Luthor makes some truly remarkable leaps of logic. He's convinced that that meteorite comes from Krypton. With a lot of effort I can even believe it, maybe it arrived at the same time (but why then? It took the same time as Kal-El's capsule which I imagine was driven by some engine?) and the fact that it was glowing and green was quite peculiar. But then BHAM! "so it must be lethal for Superman!!!". I can feel the palpable pain of the writers. "Okay, why does Luthor know that Kryptonite can kill Superman?" "Because!" "It seems enough to me, let's move on the next scene.."
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 2, 2024 18:35:41 GMT -5
Ok, out of curiosity I watched the scene more carefully (I hadn't seen the film in a while). According to the excellent movie-censorship site it is one of the scenes that was not changed in either the Extended Edition or the Directors Cut. The dialogues are taken from subtitles (I wrote only the relevant parts). (Luthor is fiddling with what appears to be a slide rule while consulting a book whose title I can't read. Otis and Teschmacher are reading the Lois' interview to Superman) Luthor: Now, then... given the exact location of the galaxy that he mentions... and the proximity to our own solar system... it's amazing! Amazing! Too good to be true! [...] L.: In the interview, he says that the planet Krypton exploded in 1948. Ridiculous little freak took three years in a rocket ship to get to Earth. [...] L.: Fragments from the planet Krypton exploded and went into outer space. L.: It is reasonable to assume that some of those particles of debris drifted to Earth. (Why it should be "reasonable"? Krypton was literally in another galaxy). Teschmacher: Meteorites! [...] (Luthor tears a page from a book and throws it towards O. and T.) T.: A meteorite found in Addis Ababa? Uh, I know I'm gonna get rapped in the mouth for this, but so what? L.: So what? You mean, to us they are just meteorites. Fair enough. But the level of specific radioactivity is so high to anyone from the planet Krypton, this substance is lethal. (WTF?!?!) Okay, this is worse than I remember. Luthor makes some truly remarkable leaps of logic. He's convinced that that meteorite comes from Krypton. With a lot of effort I can even believe it, maybe it arrived at the same time (but why then? It took the same time as Kal-El's capsule which I imagine was driven by some engine?) and the fact that it was glowing and green was quite peculiar. But then BHAM! "so it must be lethal for Superman!!!". I can feel the palpable pain of the writers. "Okay, why does Luthor know that Kryptonite can kill Superman?" "Because!" "It seems enough to me, let's move on the next scene.." Well, Superman foolishly gave Lois lane and interview and revealed many things about himself. My head cannon is that he mentioned Krypton and other items about his arrival.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 2, 2024 18:36:59 GMT -5
That made me think of Ross Webster in Superman III. He had Gus Gorman use a satellite to look for debris from Krypton, so that Superman could be harmed. Now, Luthor did what he did in the first movie, but was jailed. Did he tell the underworld about Kryptonite? If so, how did Ross Webster hear about it? Zaku’s question is a good one, and I wonder if the same applies to Ross Webster. Maybe word got out after Luthor was incarcerated about his fight with Superman.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 2, 2024 18:38:55 GMT -5
Ok, out of curiosity I watched the scene more carefully (I hadn't seen the film in a while). According to the excellent movie-censorship site it is one of the scenes that was not changed in either the Extended Edition or the Directors Cut. The dialogues are taken from subtitles (I wrote only the relevant parts). (Luthor is fiddling with what appears to be a slide rule while consulting a book whose title I can't read. Otis and Teschmacher are reading the Lois' interview to Superman) Luthor: Now, then... given the exact location of the galaxy that he mentions... and the proximity to our own solar system... it's amazing! Amazing! Too good to be true! [...] L.: In the interview, he says that the planet Krypton exploded in 1948. Ridiculous little freak took three years in a rocket ship to get to Earth. [...] L.: Fragments from the planet Krypton exploded and went into outer space. L.: It is reasonable to assume that some of those particles of debris drifted to Earth. (Why it should be "reasonable"? Krypton was literally in another galaxy). Teschmacher: Meteorites! [...] (Luthor tears a page from a book and throws it towards O. and T.) T.: A meteorite found in Addis Ababa? Uh, I know I'm gonna get rapped in the mouth for this, but so what? L.: So what? You mean, to us they are just meteorites. Fair enough. But the level of specific radioactivity is so high to anyone from the planet Krypton, this substance is lethal. (WTF?!?!) Okay, this is worse than I remember. Luthor makes some truly remarkable leaps of logic. He's convinced that that meteorite comes from Krypton. With a lot of effort I can even believe it, maybe it arrived at the same time (but why then? It took the same time as Kal-El's capsule which I imagine was driven by some engine?) and the fact that it was glowing and green was quite peculiar. But then BHAM! "so it must be lethal for Superman!!!". I can feel the palpable pain of the writers. "Okay, why does Luthor know that Kryptonite can kill Superman?" "Because!" "It seems enough to me, let's move on the next scene.." Well, Superman foolishly gave Lois lane and interview and revealed many things about himself. My head cannon is that he mentioned Krypton and other items about his arrival. If you keep in mind that Kryptonite makes absolutely no sense and is essentially magic, then it's not a problem at all. Also its appearance on Earth and the abundance of it in, especially in the Silver Age. Also magic.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 2, 2024 18:41:20 GMT -5
Well, Superman foolishly gave Lois lane and interview and revealed many things about himself. My head cannon is that he mentioned Krypton and other items about his arrival. If you keep in mind that Kryptonite makes absolutely no sense and is essentially magic, then it's not a problem at all. Also its appearance on Earth and the abundance of it in, especially in the Silver Age. Also magic. YES !!! YES !!! It's all make believe. But Us geeks like to explain all this silly stuff.
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Post by zaku on Jan 2, 2024 18:50:06 GMT -5
Also its appearance on Earth and the abundance of it in, especially in the Silver Age. DC felt our pain.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 2, 2024 20:49:15 GMT -5
One thing that irked me about Smallville was how ubiquitous Kryptonite was, often because the series wanted to do a “meteor rock villain of the week” story. At least in the movies, Luthor and Ross Webster had to put some legwork in to acquire it.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,041
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Post by Confessor on Jan 2, 2024 22:15:51 GMT -5
Ok, out of curiosity I watched the scene more carefully (I hadn't seen the film in a while). According to the excellent movie-censorship site it is one of the scenes that was not changed in either the Extended Edition or the Directors Cut. The dialogues are taken from subtitles (I wrote only the relevant parts). (Luthor is fiddling with what appears to be a slide rule while consulting a book whose title I can't read. Otis and Teschmacher are reading the Lois' interview to Superman) Luthor: Now, then... given the exact location of the galaxy that he mentions... and the proximity to our own solar system... it's amazing! Amazing! Too good to be true! [...] L.: In the interview, he says that the planet Krypton exploded in 1948. Ridiculous little freak took three years in a rocket ship to get to Earth. [...] L.: Fragments from the planet Krypton exploded and went into outer space. L.: It is reasonable to assume that some of those particles of debris drifted to Earth. (Why it should be "reasonable"? Krypton was literally in another galaxy). Teschmacher: Meteorites! [...] (Luthor tears a page from a book and throws it towards O. and T.) T.: A meteorite found in Addis Ababa? Uh, I know I'm gonna get rapped in the mouth for this, but so what? L.: So what? You mean, to us they are just meteorites. Fair enough. But the level of specific radioactivity is so high to anyone from the planet Krypton, this substance is lethal. (WTF?!?!) Okay, this is worse than I remember. Luthor makes some truly remarkable leaps of logic. He's convinced that that meteorite comes from Krypton. With a lot of effort I can even believe it, maybe it arrived at the same time (but why then? It took the same time as Kal-El's capsule which I imagine was driven by some engine?) and the fact that it was glowing and green was quite peculiar. But then BHAM! "so it must be lethal for Superman!!!". I can feel the palpable pain of the writers. "Okay, why does Luthor know that Kryptonite can kill Superman?" "Because!" "It seems enough to me, let's move on the next scene.." I think you're being a little unfair to the writers here. Something to remember is that most of the dialogue you quote is not Luthor thinking out loud and fathoming out the existence of Kryptonite right there and then. He'd already worked a lot of it out earlier off-camera. As that scene opens, it's clear that he's been in his library reasearching this for a while. So what he's really doing in the scene is putting the finishing touches to his theory, while explaining it to his two dimwit colleagues, Otis and Miss Teschmacher. It's established in the film that Luthor has a genius-level intellect. The greatest criminal mind on the planet, no less! So, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that using the exact location of the destroyed planet (which he gleaned from Lois Lane's exclusive interview with Superman) he worked out the probable trajectory and speed of the fragments of the destroyed planet (no engine needed...once something starts moving in space it just keeps going). Lex deduced -- correctly, as it turns out -- that these fragments would be irradiated by Krypton's sun with a specific radioactivity that would be lethal to any surviving Kryptonians because...you know...comic book science and stuff! So, it was then simply a case of researching any unusual green meteorites that had been recorded as having fallen to Earth during the expected impact window (which would have been some years after Kal-El's powered ship had arrived), and that's precisely what Luthor finds in the copy of National Geographic: a rare green meteorite in Addis Ababa. Now granted, it's all a little far fetched, but this is a movie about a man who can fly and outrun a speeding bullet, lest we forget. I can buy that a genius mind like Lex's could potentially work this stuff out. You have to just relax a little and enjoy the film for what it is.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 2, 2024 22:44:39 GMT -5
You can also rationalize that Superman reveals how Krypton was destroyed, in the interview, which might indicate, to Luthor, that pieces of the planet would be highly radioactive. Then again, that gets to what John Byrne did, in the Superman revamp, where kryptonite is harmful to humans, as well, with prolonged exposure (such as Lex's ring, with a kryptonite stone).
The real question is, did she include the part about her pink underwear?
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Post by Chris on Jan 3, 2024 1:21:07 GMT -5
Perhaps I missed something, but why in the 78 movie Luthor was sure that Kryptonite was harmful to Superman? And how did he know that particular green rock came from the same planet of the Man of Steel? If I recall correctly, an early version of kryptonite (maybe the original version, I'm not sure) emitted radiation on such a high frequency that it passed through pretty much everything... except for the super-dense molecular structure of Superman, which was dense enough to trap the radiation in his body. Someone please correct this if I got the details wrong, but I think this was the essential basis. From there, I figured Luthor did some Advanced Super-Science to guess that the radiation from the meteor would be deadly to Superman. That's as far as I got until I saw this. It's established in the film that Luthor has a genius-level intellect. The greatest criminal mind on the planet, no less! So, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that using the exact location of the destroyed planet (which he gleaned from Lois Lane's exclusive interview with Superman) he worked out the probable trajectory and speed of the fragments of the destroyed planet (no engine needed...once something starts moving in space it just keeps going). Lex deduced -- correctly, as it turns out -- that these fragments would be irradiated by Krypton's sun with a specific radioactivity that would be lethal to any surviving Kryptonians because...you know...comic book science and stuff! So, it was then simply a case of researching any unusual green meteorites that had been recorded as having fallen to Earth during the expected impact window (which would have been some years after Kal-El's powered ship had arrived), and that's precisely what Luthor finds in the copy of National Geographic: a rare green meteorite in Addis Ababa. Let's follow up on that highlighted section and connect it to the commentary above it. Superman explained that he was from a planet named Krypton, where it was, and - presumably - provided Lois with some kind of basic info about how his powers worked. Maybe "super-dense molecular structure" or something similar (it's what the people working on the movie - and the audience - probably remembered from the comics and TV show when they were younger, so it's not unlikely that this was the basis for his powers in the movie). Luthor could have read all this and from there worked out a basic hypothesis of how Superman's powers worked, compared it to the type of radiation the meteor would likely be emitting post-explosion and deduced that on Earth, his body would be vulnerable to that radiation by trapping it in his body and causing immediate radiation poisoning instead of passing harmlessly through like the radiation did with all less dense substances. As Luthor said, "to us they are just meteorites. Fair enough. But the level of specific radioactivity is so high to anyone from the planet Krypton, this substance is lethal." Or he unlocked this secret of the universe by reading a Bazooka Joe gum wrapper. Your choice. Edited to add: It's also likely that the article or articles Luthor read about the Addis Ababa meteor included information on the specific details of its radioactivity, which a scientific genius like Luthor could compare to his knowledge of Superman's powers to figure this all out.
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