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Post by tonebone on Jan 31, 2024 13:28:20 GMT -5
You've never seen such images? It was an old standard in the late 70s and through the Reagan years, of the flag being "planted" in the Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi or similar "enemies." T-shirts, cartoons, bumper stickers........especially a favorite merchandising item at military surplus stores and catalogs. Not advocating it...just that it was a favorite image for political commentary by a certain crowd. Ha ha! Thanks for providing context... I don't remember that at all... I was pretty perplexed... |
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Post by commond on Jan 31, 2024 18:18:33 GMT -5
Has anyone read Nexus: Space Opera? I believe Baron and Rude self-published it through Rude Dude Productions. I kinda want to complete the series, but I'm looking for a solid recommendation before shelling out for it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 31, 2024 18:50:44 GMT -5
Has anyone read Nexus: Space Opera? I believe Baron and Rude self-published it through Rude Dude Productions. I kinda want to complete the series, but I'm looking for a solid recommendation before shelling out for it. I didn't even know this was released . |
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 31, 2024 19:15:36 GMT -5
Yes, his love and respect for Kirby is apparent There was a TCJ interview in the 90's where he had negative things to say about Kirby, J Buscema, all the Image guys among others. He was an a$$hole in the business and was blackballed by the big 2, that's why he worked for the Pariah Jim Shooter in Valiant. Barry windbag was his name when he visited Marvels offices. Here is the 1996 interview. Show me where he has anything but great respect for Kirby?
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 31, 2024 19:36:29 GMT -5
There was a TCJ interview in the 90's where he had negative things to say about Kirby, J Buscema, all the Image guys among others. He was an a$$hole in the business and was blackballed by the big 2, that's why he worked for the Pariah Jim Shooter in Valiant. Barry windbag was his name when he visited Marvels offices. Here is the 1996 interview. Show me where he has anything but great respect for Kirby?
oh my...  |
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 31, 2024 20:01:17 GMT -5
You have completely misunderstood what he was saying about Kirby there. He was praising him. He was comparing him to Picasso ferchristsake!
Just admit you were wrong about Smith bashing Kirby and we can move on.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 31, 2024 20:44:54 GMT -5
He was saying that at the peak of his powers he couldn’t draw limbs.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 31, 2024 20:48:08 GMT -5
He was saying that at the peak of his powers he couldn’t draw limbs. He, in fact, did not say he couldn’t draw limbs. He goes out of his way to say that he absolutely understood anatomy. He says he was breaking the rules to make an impact. You are completely mistreating that. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 31, 2024 21:48:01 GMT -5
Here is the 1996 interview. Show me where he has anything but great respect for Kirby?
oh my... Right there, near the bottom underscore, he states" So , there's Jack breaking all the damn rules for his own vision. But, as I say, the man had the bedrock of knowledge to do that."Smith goes on to say that the modern artists have not learned to draw properly, first, but have just learned to adapt what the saw in comics, from previous guys who didn't learn, who just aped the guys before them, who aped Kirby. Kirby had the foundation to draw correct perspective and anatomy, to realistically illustrate. He used that foundation to break away from realism into an expressionistic world of action and drama that made his art leap off the page, to create amazing worlds and terrifying figures and noble creatures. Kirby was also steeped in classic storytelling, from myths and legends, to literature, to pulp fiction and speculation of the future. Kirby learned first, then applied it in his own ways to create his artistry. Smith was saying that those that followed ignored the part about learning the craft first, then stretching beyond it into expressing themselves via their art, instead just churning out pale copies of his work and similar artists (Wood, Adams, etc), which got paler the further they were removed from the original, like making successive copies of a copy, on a photocopier. Each generation of copy has less detail than the one before it, until it is unrecognizable. Hardly a condemnation of Kirby, but one of the artists who were working in mainstream comics, doing Kirby crackle and bad anatomy, not because they had developed an expressionistic approach; but, because they couldn't draw a straight line, or feet, or pupils or the correct proportions of the muscle groups in the arm. It also condemns the editors and publishers for pushing these young artists to be imitators and not innovators. |
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Post by berkley on Jan 31, 2024 22:16:57 GMT -5
I had a quick skim through that same interview to see what BWS had to say about Buscema and also the Image guys of the 1990s. He was quite critical of them, in contrast to his praise of Kirby, but he made his critical remarks on specific points, it wasn't just a gratuitous slagging off. You can agree or disagree on those points - I mostly agree, from what little I've seen of that stuff - but I don't see him being unfair or personally nasty or unnecessarily negative or anything like that. But perhaps George is thinking of a different interview in this case.
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Post by berkley on Jan 31, 2024 22:49:26 GMT -5
The Complete Far Side: is there more than one version? I've seen a 3-volume and a 2-volume set, are there others and is there much difference between them?
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 31, 2024 23:11:05 GMT -5
He was saying that at the peak of his powers he couldn’t draw limbs. Not sure if he was implying that, but Kirby most assuredly needed extremely talented inkers who I will forever say played a major role in Kirby's best work at Marvel (and the best work of his career, IMO). with Shores, Giacoia and Sinnott being absolutely critical in giving Kirby's work a stronger appeal. Even as Kriby returned to Marvel in the 70's, it took another master artist's inking (Romita) to make the more robotic, exaggerated layouts visually palatable & dynamic--as seen on the cover of The Invaders #3 (11/1975) and most notably, Captain America #193's cover ( The Madbomb - 1/1976), so at key points in Kirby's career, he did need others to bring out (and sometimes alter / correct) what is considered his best work. |
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Post by Calidore on Jan 31, 2024 23:38:21 GMT -5
The Complete Far Side: is there more than one version? I've seen a 3-volume and a 2-volume set, are there others and is there much difference between them? I've got the original two-volume HC set. Looks like the three-volume set is paperback. |
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Post by berkley on Feb 1, 2024 1:10:54 GMT -5
He was saying that at the peak of his powers he couldn’t draw limbs. Not sure if he was implying that, but Kirby most assuredly needed extremely talented inkers who I will forever say played a major role in Kirby's best work at Marvel (and the best work of his career, IMO). with Shores, Giacoia and Sinnott being absolutely critical in giving Kirby's work a stronger appeal. Even as Kriby returned to Marvel in the 70's, it took another master artist's inking (Romita) to make the more robotic, exaggerated layouts visually palatable & dynamic--as seen on the cover of The Invaders #3 (11/1975) and most notably, Captain America #193's cover ( The Madbomb - 1/1976), so at key points in Kirby's career, he did need others to bring out (and sometimes alter / correct) what is considered his best work. Can't go along with you there since some of his best work was inked by Mike Royer, who was noted for being especially faithful to Kirby's pencils. Not that I don't think Colletta, Sinnott, etc also did excellent work with Kirby and gave his art a distinct look in each case.
As for the faces, I think by the 70s especially they had become increasingly stylised to the point of almost geometrical abstraction, much as BWS describes Kirby's rendition of arms and legs. You might not like it, that's a perfectly legitimate individual reaction, but to conclude he couldn't have drawn "proper" faces if he'd wanted to is a mistake, IMO: it was very much a deliberate artistic choice on the part of Kirby. |
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Post by commond on Feb 1, 2024 7:22:20 GMT -5
Man does BWS say some unflattering things about other artists in that CBJ interview. I actually have no idea how BWS can be so judgmental of other comic book artists. He didn't insult Kirby, but I side with George on this one.
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