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Post by zaku on Apr 27, 2024 8:50:58 GMT -5
I think someone here mentioned a Graphic Novel with Black Widow but I'm not sure... This could be referring to the old Golden Age Black Widow (Claire Voyant). In his 2008 mini-series The Twelve, J. Michael Straczinsky retconned her to be a lesbian and there were definitely scenes depicting her kissing another woman. Maybe that was the first time Marvel showed a lesbian kiss? Although 2008 sounds a bit late for that, but then again, maybe not. I think this one marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Daredevil/Black_Widow:_Abattoir_Vol_1_1 1993 |
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Post by foxley on Apr 27, 2024 8:52:29 GMT -5
I think someone here mentioned a Graphic Novel with Black Widow but I'm not sure... This could be referring to the old Golden Age Black Widow (Claire Voyant). In his 2008 mini-series The Twelve, J. Michael Straczinsky retconned her to be a lesbian and there were definitely scenes depicting her kissing another woman. Maybe that was the first time Marvel showed a lesbian kiss? Although 2008 sounds a bit late for that, but then again, maybe not. Well, Natasha does kiss a woman in the Deadly Origin miniseries, but that was 2010.
Edit: Just saw the above post, which is probably the first, unless VictoriaD Montessi kissed a woman in the first few issues of Darkhold, which came out of 1992.
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 27, 2024 10:36:02 GMT -5
I know Moondragon and Marlo Chandler kissed in Captain Marvel back in 2002, so that's at least before Deadly Origin. I know also that Mystique kissed a woman in her solo-series by B.K. Vaughn, but I think that was after that. (Quick check: 2003)
(Ah, Abattoir came before that anyway).
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Post by zaku on Apr 27, 2024 10:40:46 GMT -5
I know Moondragon and Marlo Chandler kissed in Captain Marvel back in 2002, so that's at least before Deadly Origin. I know also that Mystique kissed a woman in her solo-series by B.K. Vaughn, but I think that was after that. (Quick check: 2003) Virtually every source I found says that same-sex kisses in regular Marvel comics (so no GN or similar) happened only after 2000. So, they were still worried about CCA before that..? |
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 27, 2024 11:08:57 GMT -5
I guess so, all the ones mentioned so far are post dropping the CCA in 2001. Maybe something in Marvel UK before? They had a bit more leeway, but nothing I could find so far.
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Post by zaku on Apr 27, 2024 12:57:33 GMT -5
I guess so, all the ones mentioned so far are post dropping the CCA in 2001. Maybe something in Marvel UK before? They had a bit more leeway, but nothing I could find so far. I suppose for the CCA same-sex kissing was like drugs: it wasn't explicitly forbidden but they still wouldn't allow it. |
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Post by berkley on Apr 27, 2024 13:33:11 GMT -5
Lower right: Luba and Major Gruber, from The Airtight Garage of Jerry Cornelius.
Yeah, that's about the only one I see with two characters I'd be interested in. Lots of other individual characters I like but don't know the ones they're talking to.
edit: unless .... who's that talking to American Flagg in the lower left? Not Rocco Vargas, the Daniel Torres character, is it?
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 27, 2024 13:45:26 GMT -5
I know Image changed a kiss between Sarah Rainmaker and another girl at the last minute in the early/mid 90s. I'm not sure if the CCA would find it a problem, but the publishers may not have wanted to take the chance.
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Post by zaku on Apr 27, 2024 14:08:31 GMT -5
I know Image changed a kiss between Sarah Rainmaker and another girl at the last minute in the early/mid 90s. I'm not sure if the CCA would find it a problem, but the publishers may not have wanted to take the chance. Uh, Image submitted their comics to the CCA? |
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 27, 2024 14:40:24 GMT -5
I know Image changed a kiss between Sarah Rainmaker and another girl at the last minute in the early/mid 90s. I'm not sure if the CCA would find it a problem, but the publishers may not have wanted to take the chance. Uh, Image submitted their comics to the CCA? Good point, never checked their covers. So they may just have feared advertisers or distributers. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 27, 2024 18:04:31 GMT -5
Lower right: Luba and Major Gruber, from The Airtight Garage of Jerry Cornelius.
Yeah, that's about the only one I see with two characters I'd be interested in. Lots of other individual characters I like but don't know the ones they're talking to.
edit: unless .... who's that talking to American Flagg in the lower left? Not Rocco Vargas, the Daniel Torres character, is it?
Do you mean the guy in the shirt, pants and suspenders/braces? Not sure. The woman directly opposite him is Martha Washington, from Frank Miller & Dave Gibbons' Give Me Liberty. I'm not sure about the guy....I don't think Rocco Vargas and I also don't think it is Lester Girls, from The Trouble With Girls. I wonder if it was meant to be Chaykin's lead from Time 2, or possibly another character from Love and Rockets. I kind of like Hopey (I believe), throwing her cup at Mister X, which might be a commentary on the fallout between Jaime and Dean Motter, over The Return of Mister X. Zot and Concrete in conversation, by the Spirit portrait, would be interesting to eavesdrop,. I would have put Milk and Cheese next to Too Much Coffee Man. They just fit together. Xenozoic Tales' Jack Tenrec and Hannah Dundee seem a little standoffish, standing apart form others. El Borbah and Cowboy Wally would be an interesting conversation, there, just right of center. |
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Apr 30, 2024 14:56:19 GMT -5
Was having a discussion about Jet Fighters #5 in another place.  I own this issue, it has a Toth story in it, but GCD is unsure if the cover was done by Toth or Ross Andru (who also has a story inside the book). Anyone with a better eye than I do have an opinion or a line on who actually did the cover? The inset head looks Toth to me, I'm not sure about the rest, but my eye for such things is unreliable at best. -M |
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 30, 2024 19:44:08 GMT -5
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Post by berkley on Apr 30, 2024 19:55:53 GMT -5
Yeah, that's about the only one I see with two characters I'd be interested in. Lots of other individual characters I like but don't know the ones they're talking to.
edit: unless .... who's that talking to American Flagg in the lower left? Not Rocco Vargas, the Daniel Torres character, is it?
Do you mean the guy in the shirt, pants and suspenders/braces? Not sure. The woman directly opposite him is Martha Washington, from Frank Miller & Dave Gibbons' Give Me Liberty. I'm not sure about the guy....I don't think Rocco Vargas and I also don't think it is Lester Girls, from The Trouble With Girls. I wonder if it was meant to be Chaykin's lead from Time 2, or possibly another character from Love and Rockets. I kind of like Hopey (I believe), throwing her cup at Mister X, which might be a commentary on the fallout between Jaime and Dean Motter, over The Return of Mister X. Zot and Concrete in conversation, by the Spirit portrait, would be interesting to eavesdrop,. I would have put Milk and Cheese next to Too Much Coffee Man. They just fit together. Xenozoic Tales' Jack Tenrec and Hannah Dundee seem a little standoffish, standing apart form others. El Borbah and Cowboy Wally would be an interesting conversation, there, just right of center. I didn't catch the image of Hopey, so that would be another good one, especially since Hernandez worked with both characters; also didn't realise that was supposed to be Jack Tenrec and Hannah Dundee - I thought the idea was to match up characters from different series? I think the only other character you mention that I've read is El Borbah. |
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Post by berkley on Apr 30, 2024 20:32:34 GMT -5
It might be also that he has a limited amount of work produced. Personally, I feel that Frank Cho and Adam Hughes are on par with Stevens work. You mean artistically or how much their covers sell for? I don't know anything about prices but I do like Cho's artwork a lot and wish he would produce more comics as opposed to just covers. Adam Hughes's work I've never been able to stand at all. Something about his style just turns me off. |
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