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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 20, 2024 4:47:53 GMT -5
I never was a fan of Romeo Tanghal's inks. The Best Perez inker for Perez was Jerry Ordway in COIE. I was also not a fan of Tanghlal's inks in the past, but I do wonder looking back if that's just because Perez's art at DC looked poorer generally because of the bad colouring/bad separations/bad paper at DC in the 80s. A lot of 80s DC looks hideous because of the colours. Crappy paper and separations might play the largest part in the issue, but the house colour palette was also ugly compared to Marvel's, and the work of the colourists also looked uninspired generally (covers were comparatively immune to separations and paper issues, but still tended not to look great). Man, the more I read about the past history of the publishing of comics, the more I recognize that it was a business that didn't care about spending money to make the products look the best they could. Dc did try with their Baxter books in the 80's, But they both wanted to keep their costs down. It wasn't until the 90's where coloring took a leap in quality with companies like Malibu and Image. I commented in a post somewhere that when I read some go my older books, the printing and lettering is faded in places. |
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Post by rich on Sept 20, 2024 5:13:40 GMT -5
I was also not a fan of Tanghlal's inks in the past, but I do wonder looking back if that's just because Perez's art at DC looked poorer generally because of the bad colouring/bad separations/bad paper at DC in the 80s. A lot of 80s DC looks hideous because of the colours. Crappy paper and separations might play the largest part in the issue, but the house colour palette was also ugly compared to Marvel's, and the work of the colourists also looked uninspired generally (covers were comparatively immune to separations and paper issues, but still tended not to look great). Man, the more I read about the past history of the publishing of comics, the more I recognize that it was a business that didn't care about spending money to make the products look the best they could. Dc did try with their Baxter books in the 80's, But they both wanted to keep their costs down. It wasn't until the 90's where coloring took a leap in quality with companies like Malibu and Image. I commented win a post somewhere that when I read some go my older books, the printing and lettering is faded in places. In the last month or two I've read a lot about the business, and so much of it I honestly wish I didn't know. Creators treated like crap, editors behaving like little Hitlers- making decisions that made seeming no sense while demonstrating less than zero loyalty, saving a cent that could make comics look better, etc etc. Not to mention how a baffling number of creators seem to die before the average age. I liked to image the Bullpen to be a fun and exciting place, as many up and comers described it in the 60s, or how Marvel UK was run like a fun little club in the 80s, until Neary sacked everyone en masse. Edit: Essentially, Marvel and DC run like cogs in any large businesses, with employees generally treated like disposable commodities- probably because in comics a lot of creativity is necessary, and we tend to dislike the idea of creative people being treated with all the reverence and respect a cashier or janitor might receive from their employer. Creators brought us joy in our childhoods and beyond, so it's sad to discover a large percentage of them were jettisoned in their early 40s without a second thought, replaced with some new writers to easily manipulate or artists willing to spend 80 hours a week lashed to their desk. Business or no, many EiC's still didn't need to behave like raging assholes, yet many did. Look at the hate Quesada accumulated, for example. You'd have thought as a creative person that found himself at the top of the pile he'd have had more respect for fellow creators, but no. I had high hopes for his tenure after his promising start in editorial in Marvel Knights, but those hopes were dashed incredibly fast. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 20, 2024 7:01:33 GMT -5
If it bums you out to hear the dirty inside info, don’t read Marvel: the untold story.  |
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Post by rich on Sept 20, 2024 7:17:20 GMT -5
If it bums you out to hear the dirty inside info, don’t read Marvel: the untold story. You're right. I bought it and started it, but put it down early on. Such a pity the untold story wasn't positive and uplifting, or at least a pity that the industry didn't get things right more recently. |
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Post by kirby101 on Sept 20, 2024 8:22:12 GMT -5
There was no "Bullpen". A pure creation by Stan. Only employees were at the small office. The creators, mostly artists worked from home and talked on the phone. They might go in every few weeks.
(I don't mean the creators were only the artists. Most of the 60s the writers were only Stan and Roy, they were also the editors who came to the office 2 or 3 times a week.) Guys like Sol Brodsky were there everyday, keeping things going.
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Post by commond on Sept 20, 2024 8:44:48 GMT -5
Stan never hid the fact that the artists worked from home. Here he is talking about in the third ever Bullpen Bulletins (February 1966 cover date):  |
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Post by rich on Sept 20, 2024 9:04:19 GMT -5
Stan never hid the fact that the artists worked from home. Did anyone suggest otherwise? Romita Snr did two days a week while he was there, I believe he said, as art director, but otherwise people worked from home or from their own studios. Yes they'd visit, and there's plenty of stories of young artists enjoying going into the office and meeting Lee and the others that followed. |
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 20, 2024 9:30:44 GMT -5
There was no "Bullpen". A pure creation by Stan. Only employees were at the small office. The creators, mostly artists worked from home and talked on the phone. They might go in every few weeks. (I don't mean the creators were only the artists. Most of the 60s the writers were only Stan and Roy, they were also the editors who came to the office 2 or 3 times a week.) Guys like Sol Brodsky were there everyday, keeping things going. As a kid, I had visions of a big factory-style environment, with rows of desks featuring writers and artists. Illusions were shattered years later! |
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Post by berkley on Sept 20, 2024 12:13:37 GMT -5
I think Pablo Marcos would be up there with my favourite inkers for George Perez, maybe even number 1.
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Post by tarkintino on Sept 20, 2024 12:22:53 GMT -5
I think Pablo Marcos would be up there with my favourite inkers for George Perez, maybe even number 1. My favorite Perez inkers were Klaus Janson, followed closely by Dick Giordano. |
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Post by tarkintino on Sept 20, 2024 12:30:03 GMT -5
There was no "Bullpen". A pure creation by Stan. Only employees were at the small office. The creators, mostly artists worked from home and talked on the phone. They might go in every few weeks. (I don't mean the creators were only the artists. Most of the 60s the writers were only Stan and Roy, they were also the editors who came to the office 2 or 3 times a week.) Guys like Sol Brodsky were there everyday, keeping things going. As a kid, I had visions of a big factory-style environment, with rows of desks featuring writers and artists. Illusions were shattered years later! Marie Severin's MAD-esque cover of FOOM #16 (December, 1976) laid out a very busy Marvel office, filled with a large number of major names in the company at that time. Just the kind of visual fans wanted to see:
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Post by kirby101 on Sept 20, 2024 15:27:16 GMT -5
A fun fantasy. Unfortunately just that. More of the sales pitch Stan used to hold fans.
The problem is when people today so desperately want to keep those childhood dreams and not accept the harsher reality that the comic biz was.
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Post by commond on Sept 20, 2024 15:54:13 GMT -5
Stan never hid the fact that the artists worked from home. Romita Snr did two days a week while he was there, I believe he said, as art director, but otherwise people worked from home or from their own studios. Yes they'd visit, and there's plenty of stories of young artists enjoying going into the office and meeting Lee and the others that followed. Some people act like it was a lie that Stan proliferated when in reality was it was just another "zanny" thing he wrote about that was symbolic at best. In the same bulletin, he talks about why he's always poking fun at Simek and Rosen. There are people who take those insults seriously. |
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Post by Yasotay on Sept 20, 2024 16:21:16 GMT -5
I think Pablo Marcos would be up there with my favourite inkers for George Perez, maybe even number 1. This. While I think Perez is maybe the best comics artist ever, I don't believe his work every looked as good as it did when Marcos was inking him on Avengers in the 1970s. I also believe John Byrne's art never looked as good as when Marcos also inked his brief stint on Avengers during the same era. Not being an art guy, I'm not really sure where the line is between inker and artist but I find it interesting that some of my favorite comic art was inked by Marcos yet when I see his original art, it looks okay to me but doesn't blow me away. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Sept 20, 2024 16:42:38 GMT -5
Ordway is definitely my favorite inker for Perez, followed by Al Vey, Dan Green, and George himself. Sorry, I don't like Marcos' inks on anyone except himself.
Cei-U!
I summon the contrarian!
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