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Post by tingramretro on Nov 4, 2016 13:59:58 GMT -5
I thought bringing Barry and Hal back from the dead was dopey also, but It just keeps the story going along for other readers. Tony Stark was killed in the terrible Crossings Storyline , but they sort of disavowed all knowledge of that story. Whatever works to keep the stories moving forward, I guess. I still think bringing Barry back was a mistake. It was totally unnecessary, it just irritated a generation of readers who were invested in Wally as the Flash, and Barry was always a pretty one dimensional character anyway-the only interesting thing about him was the fact that he'd died! He was, in my opinion, far more valuable to the DCU as a martyr than he ever was as an ongoing character.
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Post by tingramretro on Nov 4, 2016 14:13:15 GMT -5
Also, why did they have to bring back Adam Warlock?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 4, 2016 14:19:33 GMT -5
I thought bringing Barry and Hal back from the dead was dopey also, but It just keeps the story going along for other readers. Tony Stark was killed in the terrible Crossings Storyline , but they sort of disavowed all knowledge of that story. Whatever works to keep the stories moving forward, I guess. I think there was a big difference here... Barry and Hal both had well developed, well liked replacement. Sure, people took a bit to warm to Kyle, but Wally West (IMO) is easily more popular than Barry Allen (who, quite frankly, is kinda boring and generic). With Tony Stark, not only did they not replace him, but the story where he died was so horrendously stupid, it was quickly forgotten. The other thing is they techincally didn't replace Tony Stark, but really de-aged him instead. As a big fan, I found that worse, honestly. I know alot of people don't like Hal's death and think it out of character, but it was decently written, and never completely erased from history in the way that Crossing was. Barry's was a classic moment of the bronze age (maybe THE classic moment). Big difference.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 4, 2016 14:25:20 GMT -5
Also, why did they have to bring back Adam Warlock? Which time? I get killed and resurrected a lot. It's as much of a constant as Power Girl's bosom.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 4, 2016 15:45:47 GMT -5
Also, why did they have to bring back Adam Warlock? Which time? I get killed and resurrected a lot. It's as much of a constant as Power Girl's bosom. I'm glad you're still here adamwarlock2099 . But seriously Warlocks resurrection was sort of his thing, and many great stories were written for the character after his return.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 20:06:38 GMT -5
I thought bringing Barry and Hal back from the dead was dopey also, but It just keeps the story going along for other readers. Tony Stark was killed in the terrible Crossings Storyline , but they sort of disavowed all knowledge of that story. Whatever works to keep the stories moving forward, I guess. Barry died a heroic death in COIE & Wally made sense as the new Flash.
Hal died a heroic death in Final Night. The problem with his death was him going crazy & becoming Parallax first. And then reviving him as the Spectre. Also having Kyle become the new GL was too random. If John had stepped into the role that would have been better.
Tony's death/teen Tony - all of it was just dumb.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 4, 2016 21:06:22 GMT -5
I thought bringing Barry and Hal back from the dead was dopey also, but It just keeps the story going along for other readers. Tony Stark was killed in the terrible Crossings Storyline , but they sort of disavowed all knowledge of that story. Whatever works to keep the stories moving forward, I guess. Barry died a heroic death in COIE & Wally made sense as the new Flash.
Hal died a heroic death in Final Night. The problem with his death was him going crazy & becoming Parallax first. And then reviving him as the Spectre. Also having Kyle become the new GL was too random. If John had stepped into the role that would have been better.
Tony's death/teen Tony - all of it was just dumb.
I would have been fine with John Stewart taking over, too.. but Kyle was fun.. the whole artist thing made for some great art. And I think I'm in the minority, but I thought Hal as the Spectre was brilliant.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 21:10:14 GMT -5
Barry died a heroic death in COIE & Wally made sense as the new Flash.
Hal died a heroic death in Final Night. The problem with his death was him going crazy & becoming Parallax first. And then reviving him as the Spectre. Also having Kyle become the new GL was too random. If John had stepped into the role that would have been better.
Tony's death/teen Tony - all of it was just dumb.
I would have been fine with John Stewart taking over, too.. but Kyle was fun.. the whole artist thing made for some great art. And I think I'm in the minority, but I thought Hal as the Spectre was brilliant. It took awhile but Morrison got me to like Kyle in the JLA. As far as Hal as the Spectre it felt like DC knew they screwed up & tried to keep Hal around in some form.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 4, 2016 22:33:11 GMT -5
I thought bringing Barry and Hal back from the dead was dopey also, but It just keeps the story going along for other readers. Tony Stark was killed in the terrible Crossings Storyline , but they sort of disavowed all knowledge of that story. Whatever works to keep the stories moving forward, I guess. Barry died a heroic death in COIE & Wally made sense as the new Flash.
Hal died a heroic death in Final Night. The problem with his death was him going crazy & becoming Parallax first. And then reviving him as the Spectre. Also having Kyle become the new GL was too random. If John had stepped into the role that would have been better.
Tony's death/teen Tony - all of it was just dumb.
Whilr I don't know how random Hal's selection as a GL was, I thought the writing was ok. The ring found someone suitable. Like Beta Ray Bill picking up Thor's hammer (cause I can't spell it). Sure it's a plot device to sell comics but I thought it worked well. Parallax was terrible though and basically celebrated Hal's transgressions and still tried to paint him a hero. I didn't read much of him as Spectre. But being that Hal thinks he knows what's best for the universe, the role seems perfect for him. He's like the "hey I may drink and drive but I've not killed anyone yet while doing it".
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 5, 2016 7:52:33 GMT -5
My questions will build off of that (thanks for that explanation!) 2. How was her resurrection received? Generally fans tend to be split on the revival of a character thought to be gone or dead. It caused me to stop buying Marvel Comics for an extended period of time. Ditto. The resurrection of Jean Grey was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It took Busiek and Perez's Avengers to bring me back, albeit briefly, into the fold. I never went back to the X-books. And honestly, looking back on it with 30 years' added perspective, I don't regret walking away, not one bit. Cei-U! I summon the gamechanger!
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Post by hondobrode on Nov 5, 2016 9:40:45 GMT -5
I left after the Goblin Queen storyline and only went back for Morrison's run, which was worth it.
Recently picked up Whedon & Cassaday's Astonishing X-Men 2 year run, and that also was good.
Other than those 2 rarities in the last 30 years or so, I'm not interested, though I liked the Ultimate line including Ultimate X-Men.
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Post by Trevor on Nov 5, 2016 13:36:15 GMT -5
Every now and then I think I'm an awful person and should read all of X-Men from the beginning to punish myself.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 5, 2016 14:21:01 GMT -5
Every now and then I think I'm an awful person and should read all of X-Men from the beginning to punish myself. No one is that terrible of a person.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,057
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Post by Confessor on Nov 5, 2016 16:16:43 GMT -5
It caused me to stop buying Marvel Comics for an extended period of time. Ditto. The resurrection of Jean Grey was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It took Busiek and Perez's Avengers to bring me back, albeit briefly, into the fold. I never went back to the X-books. And honestly, looking back on it with 30 years' added perspective, I don't regret walking away, not one bit. Cei-U! I summon the gamechanger! Interesting. I've heard you talk before about how the resurrection of Jean Grey was the final straw for you with Marvel. But I'd always assumed it was when she came back as Pheonix. I didn't realise it was when the real Jean Grey returned.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 10:45:53 GMT -5
Some friends who saw Dr. Strange but know squat about the actual comics would like to know the best way to get to know him in the comics. Is there a single collection that suits that quite adequately?
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