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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 22:01:14 GMT -5
Can anyone point me to some backstory comics on General Grievous; if there is any? I'm curious while watching Clone Wars series if there more on him. The story was never meant to be cannon, but there is a story in Star Wars: Visionaries that gives some background on him.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2017 1:44:16 GMT -5
Is there a definitive point where the Silver Age J'onn J'onzz stopped being used primarily as a detective and shifted into the superhero genre instead, or was this more of a gradual evolution?
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 11, 2017 7:31:40 GMT -5
I never knew Jon Jonz was a cop until years later. He was always a Superman clone when I saw him in the JLA comics.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 8:13:16 GMT -5
Is there a definitive point where the Silver Age J'onn J'onzz stopped being used primarily as a detective and shifted into the superhero genre instead, or was this more of a gradual evolution? I have a friend that once told me that when the Justice League of America was first created in Brave and the Bold #28; DC Editorial Board and Gardner Fox wanted a character that can replace Superman in the lineup - Gardner Fox liked Martian Manhunter in the House of Mystery Comic Books and made him even more powerful so that he can be use in the JLA as a Substitute Superman so when the popularity of JLA at that time and his prominence in the Justice League and he was the heart and soul of that group and been in every incarnation except the New 52 of which I stopped reading Justice League after that completely. That's is when he went from being a Detective and gradually worked his way into the Superhero Genre. I always considered him one of my favorites and without him in the Justice League is like having a Hot Dog without Mustard and a Peanut Butter Sandwich without Jam. This what I was told and I believe my friend in my heart. Martian Manhunter is the Heart and Soul of the Justice League without him ... it's doesn't seems right.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2017 9:26:11 GMT -5
Is there a definitive point where the Silver Age J'onn J'onzz stopped being used primarily as a detective and shifted into the superhero genre instead, or was this more of a gradual evolution? I have a friend that once told me that when the Justice League of America was first created in Brave and the Bold #28; DC Editorial Board and Gardner Fox wanted a character that can replace Superman in the lineup - Gardner Fox liked Martian Manhunter in the House of Mystery Comic Books and made him even more powerful so that he can be use in the JLA as a Substitute Superman so when the popularity of JLA at that time and his prominence in the Justice League and he was the heart and soul of that group and been in every incarnation except the New 52 of which I stopped reading Justice League after that completely. That's is when he went from being a Detective and gradually worked his way into the Superhero Genre. I always considered him one of my favorites and without him in the Justice League is like having a Hot Dog without Mustard and a Peanut Butter Sandwich without Jam. This what I was told and I believe my friend in my heart. Martian Manhunter is the Heart and Soul of the Justice League without him ... it's doesn't seems right. Thanks, Juggernaut. I did know about the Superman-stand-in bit. I'm more wondering if he was being used as a superhero prior to the Justice League, or if that's where it began.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 11:06:24 GMT -5
shaxperI think it where it began; when he became a Superhero but they wanted to keep his police (profile) officer as Detective John Jones and during his run in the Original Justice League he was dating a Police Officer by the name of Diane Meade. She was a friend, colleague, and eventually became his girlfriend (during the original run of JLA) and that's when they started shifting him from Detective to Superhero - gradually and to me it's was Brave and the Bold #28 was the starting point of him being the Superhero. Somewhere along the lines another 50 to 100 issues he was a full-fledged superhero and somewhere (I don't know) that they dropped the Detective John Jones and eventually they dropped Jonn Jonzz (much later on, very much) and settled for Martian Manhunter altogether. That's how I remember it.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2017 11:14:57 GMT -5
shaxperI think it where it began; when he became a Superhero but they wanted to keep his police (profile) officer as Detective John Jones and during his run in the Original Justice League he was dating a Police Officer by the name of Diane Meade. She was a friend, colleague, and eventually became his girlfriend (during the original run of JLA) and that's when they started shifting him from Detective to Superhero - gradually and to me it's was Brave and the Bold #28 was the starting point of him being the Superhero. Somewhere along the lines another 50 to 100 issues he was a full-fledged superhero and somewhere (I don't know) that they dropped the Detective John Jones and eventually they dropped Jonn Jonzz (much later on, very much) and settled for Martian Manhunter altogether. That's how I remember it. Thanks for this!
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Post by tingramretro on Feb 11, 2017 11:58:18 GMT -5
Is there a definitive point where the Silver Age J'onn J'onzz stopped being used primarily as a detective and shifted into the superhero genre instead, or was this more of a gradual evolution? I have a friend that once told me that when the Justice League of America was first created in Brave and the Bold #28; DC Editorial Board and Gardner Fox wanted a character that can replace Superman in the lineup - Gardner Fox liked Martian Manhunter in the House of Mystery Comic Books and made him even more powerful so that he can be use in the JLA as a Substitute Superman so when the popularity of JLA at that time and his prominence in the Justice League and he was the heart and soul of that group and been in every incarnation except the New 52 of which I stopped reading Justice League after that completely. That's is when he went from being a Detective and gradually worked his way into the Superhero Genre. I always considered him one of my favorites and without him in the Justice League is like having a Hot Dog without Mustard and a Peanut Butter Sandwich without Jam. This what I was told and I believe my friend in my heart. Martian Manhunter is the Heart and Soul of the Justice League without him ... it's doesn't seems right. He wasn't the heart and soul of the League in the Bronze Age. He didn't appear in the book from about 1970-1983, aside from a couple of guest shots.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 12:37:24 GMT -5
Is there a definitive point where the Silver Age J'onn J'onzz stopped being used primarily as a detective and shifted into the superhero genre instead, or was this more of a gradual evolution? Detective Comics #326. Back up is "The Death of John Jones, Detective".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 12:45:09 GMT -5
I have a friend that once told me that when the Justice League of America was first created in Brave and the Bold #28; DC Editorial Board and Gardner Fox wanted a character that can replace Superman in the lineup - Gardner Fox liked Martian Manhunter in the House of Mystery Comic Books and made him even more powerful so that he can be use in the JLA as a Substitute Superman so when the popularity of JLA at that time and his prominence in the Justice League and he was the heart and soul of that group and been in every incarnation except the New 52 of which I stopped reading Justice League after that completely. That's is when he went from being a Detective and gradually worked his way into the Superhero Genre. I always considered him one of my favorites and without him in the Justice League is like having a Hot Dog without Mustard and a Peanut Butter Sandwich without Jam. This what I was told and I believe my friend in my heart. Martian Manhunter is the Heart and Soul of the Justice League without him ... it's doesn't seems right. He wasn't the heart and soul of the League in the Bronze Age. He didn't appear in the book from about 1970-1983, aside from a couple of guest shots. In my own opinion, and I spoke to several members of Comic (I was a member of that) Vine says it's Martian Manhunter of which I read several JLA books in my lifetime (not much in the Bronze Age, I consider the Bronze Age of Comics, my least favorite age) and I understand you are saying here and I respect it very much - but in all fairness many of JLA fans over the age of 40 years consider Martian Manhunter the glue that keep the team together and was respected by many JLA Fandom Groups across the United States as the centerpoint of JLA. I dropped Comic Vine 7 years ago. Comic Vine I know you will disagree with me on this - but that's okay with me and you must understand that I'm nearing 58 years of age and I read hundreds and hundreds of JLA Comic Books except of those in the Bronze Age because of College and Work because I did not read Comics then. My memory of Justice League in that Era is dead zero and that's the fact. I do know that he went to Mars to find his family and that's one of the critical reasons why he did not appear much in that Era according to my friends at my Local Comic Book Store that I go to. But, everyone that I talk to and based on their own knowledge they consider the Manhunter of Mars the Heart and Soul of the Justice League. Most Everybody that I talked to speak with their mind and when the New 52 came out EVERYONE was mad at DC Comics for not having him in the lineup and substituted him with Cyborg of which made me very angry and I did not read any JLA books until Justice League Dark came around. Right now, I'm not reading any comic books now because I'm done with collecting and gave away all my floppies and kept the entire run of Grant Morrison JLA books and Martian Manhunter is on that team and that run had 126 issues and I consider it the best Justice League Book outside of the Satellite (Silver Age) Era and I was sad to see Grant Morrison left JLA in April 2006. This is all I have to say about it and I'm speaking from my own personal perspective and understanding of Martian Manhunter. I'm not an expert on him but I do have a good general history of him and I consider him a favorite of mine for years and always have a place for him. Thanks for reading all this.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Feb 11, 2017 12:51:50 GMT -5
Good observation tingrametro, I agree with you. And md62 sounds like he picked it correctly.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2017 13:42:50 GMT -5
Is there a definitive point where the Silver Age J'onn J'onzz stopped being used primarily as a detective and shifted into the superhero genre instead, or was this more of a gradual evolution? Detective Comics #326. Back up is "The Death of John Jones, Detective". Thank you!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 14:39:39 GMT -5
J'onn was still appearing in Detective when B&B #28 came out, not House of Mystery. He would continue to appear in 'Tec until issue 326 (the last pre-new look Batman issue) in '64, so JLA was in full swing long before JJ ever appeared in House of Mystery. I read through the first Showcase volume of Manhunter stuff last year and am currently reading through Vol. 2 now.
The earliest stories all had J'onn using his Martian abilities to solve crimes as Detective Jones and he rarely ever appeared in Martian form-up through Detective #240 he pretty much never appeared in Martian form after the origin story, then in 240 he would be in Martian form, but invisible, so no one saw him for a few stories, then back to rarely being in Martian form except for a few panels for a while. His challenge wasn't a secret identity to protect so much, as to prevent people from knowing the existence of a martian in their midst, and these were primarily detective stories with a dash of super-powers used to solve them. He would then spend more and more time doing fantastic things and solving fantastic cases as the invisible Manhunter behind the scenes with Detective Jones getting the credit, but these were more super-hero menaces than detective cases-aliens from outer space, super gimmick criminals, etc. always someone who would use or cause fire to add a plot twist and extra obstacle for the hero. J'onn is always drawn with a nimbus around him to show he is invisible, and sometimes backgrounds can be seen through his figure (but rarely)
The first time he acts in the open in Detective 268, a story called The Mixed-Up Martian Powers, but it takes place on a movie set and everyone thinks that the Manhunter is an actor/stuntmen not a martian. The next issue he is "exposed" but protects his secret by explaining he was dressing as a martian (there had been an earlier story with Martian criminals so people knew about martians and their abilities) to get evidence, and the Manhunter's existence is still unknown. However, in Detective #273 (cover dated Nov 1959), a story entitled the Unmasking of J'onn J'onnz reveals the existence of the Martian Manhunter and he begins to operate openly as a super-hero type, but keeps the John Jones identity intact, and the focus shifts to protecting the secret identity and is no longer on hiding the existence of a martian. Brave & Bold 28 was cover dated March 1960, so only 5 months after the story appearing in Tec that revealed MM to the world as a super-hero type.
-M
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2017 17:53:41 GMT -5
However, in Detective #273 (cover dated Nov 1959), a story entitled the Unmasking of J'onn J'onnz reveals the existence of the Martian Manhunter and he begins to operate openly as a super-hero type, but keeps the John Jones identity intact, and the focus shifts to protecting the secret identity form hiding the existence of a martian. BRave & Bold 28 was cover dated March 1960, so only 5 months after the story appearing in Tec that revealed MM to the world as a super-hero type. -M Ah, this was what I was looking for. Thanks for the incredibly thorough answer!
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 11, 2017 21:20:26 GMT -5
I hate to play the contrarian but I disagree with Juggernaut. I'm the same age and I can honestly say that no one I personally know from my generation of fans believes that the Martian Manhunter is "the heart and soul of the Justice League" (although you could make a convincing argument that that has become true in the last couple of decades). Most of us saw him as an uninspired Superman ripoff with an even sillier weakness. None of my friends shed a tear when he was dropped from the team around #71. I'd never really cared for the character until he was revamped post-Crisis by DeMatteis and Badger. I'm not saying Juggy is wrong, only that his experience is 180°from mine.
Cei-U! I summon DC's very own jolly green giant!
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