shaxper
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Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Aug 4, 2015 9:12:44 GMT -5
Stumbled upon Four Colors and the Truth's Best Non-Superhero Comics of All Time list today and, while I'm not familiar with the site, It's an incredibly well done list, largely focusing on high-literature black and white indy titles, though it does stretch its boundaries on occasion. What I felt the author missed: Cerebus V for Vendetta Grendel Thomas on Conan Thomas and Russell on Elric Laika Carl Barks on Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck Corto Maltese Of course, #1 is still yet to be revealed. |
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Post by DubipR on Aug 4, 2015 10:01:45 GMT -5
He's got Love & Rockets too low on the list... that's #1.
What I felt he's missed:
- The Incal
- Goodbye, Chunky Rice
- Zap Comix
- Mister X
- Corto Maltese
- Barks/Rosa Scrooge
- Cerebus
- Elfquest
- Charley's War
This could be a long ass list.
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Post by Warmonger on Aug 4, 2015 10:30:20 GMT -5
Roy Thomas' run on Conan is #1 in my eyes
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Post by MDG on Aug 4, 2015 10:45:15 GMT -5
Pretty chronocentric list, considering that if Nemo's in there, pretty much anything's fair game. But Herriman, Segar, Crane... many more strip artists didn't make the cut. "Couldn't figure out how to get EC in there," but why not MAD or Kurtzman's war stories? And, of course, people who just make entertaining comics, like Barks, Rosa, Stanley don't count.
Also, Corben did better things then DEN and Crumb better things than Genesis (I'm assuming--haven't read the whole thing, but why not select something that's not an adaptation?)
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Post by tingramretro on Aug 4, 2015 10:52:12 GMT -5
He's got Love & Rockets too low on the list... that's #1. What I felt he's missed: - The Incal - Goodbye, Chunky Rice - Zap Comix - Mister X - Corto Maltese - Barks/Rosa Scrooge - Cerebus - Elfquest - Charley's War Any list without Charley's War on it is one I can't take seriously. And where are V for Vendetta and The Ballad of Halo Jones? |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Aug 4, 2015 10:55:43 GMT -5
He's got Love & Rockets too low on the list... that's #1. What I felt he's missed: - The Incal - Goodbye, Chunky Rice - Zap Comix - Mister X - Corto Maltese - Barks/Rosa Scrooge - Cerebus - Elfquest - Charley's War This could be a long ass list. The list continues if you scroll down, past some of the other posts. A few of the items on your list appear there. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 4, 2015 13:31:10 GMT -5
As is always the case, there are many things on the original list I would remove, and other things I'd add.
Just restricting it to the American comics, and on top of what's been mentioned in this thread, I'd insist on adding
Finder
Strangehaven
Berlin
The adventures of Luther Arkwright
The walking dead
Nexus
The First Kingdom
... the list goes on... I just wanted to praise these titles!!!
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Post by fourcolours on Aug 4, 2015 13:55:14 GMT -5
Umm...wow. Thanks for discussing my list, folks.
I decided to do this because of a similar list that Rolling Stone did in early 2014. I didn't really like it, so I made my own.
A few things:
I couldn't agree more that it's way too chronocentric. I knew it would be, but it ended up being way more than I had intended. It's also way more white, male, and North American than I would liked. But ultimately I went with my faves.
A few of the titles suggested by others are actually on the list, if you have the time to go through the whole thing.
One of the soft rules I set for myself is that a creator could only be considered once on the list. And so you don't get V for Vendetta, or Halo, but do get From Hell.
Grendel was one of the ones I gave a lot of thought to, but ultimately decided it would fit better on a list of superhero titles. The more I think about it, the more I think Hellboy shouldn't have been on my list either.
Kurtzman is probably my biggest oversight for sure.
I do think I picked quite a few comics that are there for entertainment's sake: Bone, Scott Pilgrim, Sin City, Calvin & Hobbes' etc. I know people love those Carl Barks comics, but to be honest, I just haven't spent much time with them.
#1 will be in the next day or so...I think I'll get a lot of grief over it 
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Post by fourcolours on Aug 4, 2015 13:56:50 GMT -5
As is always the case, there are many things on the original list I would remove, and other things I'd add. Just restricting it to the American comics, and on top of what's been mentioned in this thread, I'd insist on adding Finder Strangehaven Berlin The adventures of Luther Arkwright The walking dead Nexus The First Kingdom ... the list goes on... I just wanted to praise these titles!!!Thanks very much! I did include Finder & Berlin, they're further down the list. For Talbot, I picked Grandville over Arkwright. I'd consider Nexus to be a superhero title, so it got left off the list. o |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Aug 4, 2015 14:38:15 GMT -5
There's a good chance that Cerebus will be # 1.
He seems to have a good grasp of recent, popular indies and the more out-of-the-box Marvel and DC stuff, but not great (A) Historical/Classic Comics Knowledge, (B) knowledge of Strip cartoons either web or print, (C) knowledge of smaller press/mini comics, (D) Understanding of Undergrounds, (E) Manga Knowledge, or (F) European comics Knowledge.
I don't think it's a bad list, but the scope of the project was just beyond him. If we reinterpret this as "Top 100 Non-Small Press English Language Comics Published in the last 30 Years" (plus a few others) it's pretty good.
Plus, without tags, the list is quite hard to navigate.
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Post by Dizzy D on Aug 4, 2015 14:43:33 GMT -5
It's pretty decent list for modern americocentric comics. But overal, it's a list. Lists always get arbitrary at some points.
I do completely disagree with his assessment of the Incal's writing.
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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 4, 2015 14:46:44 GMT -5
First thoughts I had were the DC and EC war books, especially Enemy Ace. Then, even though I'm not more than a causal fan and admirer, Carl Barks' duck books would seem to demand recognition. Ditto to at least the first 25 or so sues of Conan and V for Vendetta. Would either key run of Swamp Thing (Wein-Wrightson's; Moore's and various artists) count? Guilty pleasure: Tomahawk.  |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 4, 2015 15:33:28 GMT -5
It's pretty decent list for modern americocentric comics. But overal, it's a list. Lists always get arbitrary at some points. Very true... I'd even argue that they're arbitrary from the get-go; it's just that some arbitrary tastes can be shared by a vast number of readers, giving the impression that some lists are objective. Sure, we can argue that this writer is more innovative than that one, or that this artist is technically superior to that one... but in the end, if someone prefers U.S. 1 to Dropsie Avenue, who am I to say he's wrong? There's also the matter of what comics we've been made aware of among the umpteen thousand that exist. If you or I had to write up such a list, I'm sure there would be a huge European representation and a much smaller North American one. I don't think there would be more than one American comic in my top ten list, in all honesty, much as I love certain titles! |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Aug 4, 2015 16:21:49 GMT -5
I tend not to pay much attention to any lists on the internet or any other media, whether it be comics, food, movies, etc. Almost always it's the opinion of one person or a small group of people. Even ones that people seem to regard as having some validity because they come from a national publication (Rolling Stone for instance) or organization, unless it's based on actual polling, it's just someone's opinion which is little more valid than my own.
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Post by foxley on Aug 4, 2015 16:26:25 GMT -5
No Maze Agency? No Ms. Tree? I guess detective books aren't fourcolours bag, which is fair enough. No westerns either.
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