ironchimp
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Posts: 456
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Post by ironchimp on Jul 29, 2014 18:13:05 GMT -5
to do that they would have to shut youtube down and that's never going to happen. google are the biggest pirate operation of them all and are immune.
and i believe it is doing the same with books too
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 18:17:24 GMT -5
to do that they would have to shut youtube down and that's never going to happen. google are the biggest pirate operation of them all and are immune. and i believe it is doing the same with books too It's really much simpler than that. Sony has technology right now where inaudible sounds are played throughout their movies and this somehow detects when it's a pirate copy or not. They can even detect cams from movie theaters, or someone shooting a video of something from his TV. They add this technology to the Playstation and it will not play pirated Sony media through a flash drive. I can imagine this kind of technology being a required addition to all video streaming sites as well as all digital video playback devices. I can see this being preinstalled software on computers. I can see it in our iPods. The sharing of files may not be stoppable directly, the playback of those files can be, which would by default make sharing them pointless. Also, as TV resolutions increase, so do file sizes. 4K technology right now is streaming only, I don't think that kind of thing is available illegally at the moment, although I'm sure there will probably be a way in the near future. But when a movie requires so much memory that it becomes incredibly easy to pinpoint who is using the internet to pirate movies, it would become really easy to streamline investigation. I also see a possibility in the future when these things are not investigated by studio lawyers, but by police. Where mutual business agreements aren't what got copy protection software on Youtube, but legislation. As far as comics go, I have bought a DRM free comic directly from a creator. The comic comes watermarked with my personal info in the corner. Uploading it to a file sharing site would be a bad idea.
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ironchimp
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Simian Overlord
Posts: 456
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Post by ironchimp on Jul 29, 2014 19:24:31 GMT -5
the history of drm at least in music has been one of total failure. drm technology existed for at least 10 years but is basically non existent now and a lot of consumers were burnt by sony's previous attempt at drm so i doubt they'll be rushing in droves for any new system they have in their media or players en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandali agree it's possible to pinpoint who is downloading - and has been done in the past - but the sheer amount of man hours and cost needed to enforce it is basically impossible and with ip masking actually very difficult to detect. In the Uk the government closed down access to torrent sites but let youtube off scot free so the whole thing was basically pointless for music at least.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 19:42:33 GMT -5
I know consumers choose DRM free sources and devices, but what if that choice were no longer there? The entertainment industry has a decent sized lobby, I can see laws being passed regarding this. Or if not, I can see the eventual proliferation in these types of safeguards in media devices. If Sony owned the format of choice, and allowed other manufacturers to make players only under the agreement that the technology would be added, that would pretty much make all devices copy protected. It would only take a single class action on behalf of all movie studios and television networks against Roku before that machine lost it's flash drive and all competitors scared off from adding one.
I just don't see how piracy can continue on this level and movies/music as we know it continue to exist. I don't see multibillion dollar industries suffering a peaceful extinction at the hands of young coders with websites set up out of overseas nations with lax copyright laws.
If all movie studios added foolproof DRM to all movies they released, the consumer couldn't just go watch a different movie. They'd all have DRM, except the old files already floating around. Nothing new, nothing remastered, nothing recut or rereleased in a higher definition. Just the files from the heyday of piracy left, and clunky old outdated players to play them on.
As far as the manhours required to catch all pirates, likely they wouldn't have to catch them all. You can't catch every meth lab either, but send enough people to prison for it and you'll reduce the number of people willing to do it. Not that I think piracy warrants prison time, but if it became a legal matter and not a civil matter, like shoplifting, how many people would risk probation and a fine over it? Significantly fewer, especially when compounded with piracy being much more difficult to do.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 29, 2014 21:13:15 GMT -5
You can't catch every meth lab either, but send enough people to prison for it and you'll reduce the number of people willing to do it. This theory has worked wonderfully for the War On Drugs thats been going on now for over 50 years And any tech system of copy-protection made by man wil be unmade by man as long as there is profit to be had Piracy of media will also live on. Or do you foresee a war against China,Korea or other countries over this issue? Here in the states,organized crime has a hand in it too. Its not just little Johnny in his bedroom . Just like drugs,if enough people want it and there's money to be made, it will happen
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 22:04:13 GMT -5
Laws don't change behavior, they just create criminals. -Robert Anton Wilson
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 22:12:49 GMT -5
You can't catch every meth lab either, but send enough people to prison for it and you'll reduce the number of people willing to do it. This theory has worked wonderfully for the War On Drugs thats been going on now for over 50 years And any tech system of copy-protection made by man wil be unmade by man as long as there is profit to be had Piracy of media will also live on. Or do you foresee a war against China,Korea or other countries over this issue? Here in the states,organized crime has a hand in it too. Its not just little Johnny in his bedroom . Just like drugs,if enough people want it and there's money to be made, it will happen There won't have to be a war against anyone if every media playing device has built in copy protection. If no DVD player would play a home burned DVD, then there really wouldn't be bootleg DVD's. I can definitely foresee something like that happening. Especially since Sony has had such a large role in bringing DVD to the marketplace, and developing Blu Ray. I think the reason neither the XBOX ONE or the PS4 currently play movies via USB is because when they do roll it out, it will have bulletproof copy protection, and those movies fed to it through the USB will only work if they were purchased through legal avenues. I may be wrong, but both companies stated they'd have USB support by the end of 2014, so it won't be long until we find out. This is just the beginning.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 22:17:09 GMT -5
"Cinavia watermarking detection support became mandatory for all consumer Blu-ray Disc players from 2012." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinaviaHow long until that technology is in every movie and TV show, and mandatory on every type of media player, including the PC?
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 29, 2014 22:47:05 GMT -5
You really expect a ban on people's home movies on DVD? Seriously? No more amateur productions ? DVD players that can play home burned DVD would be the hottest black market item around the world. Anyway, digital files will be where the mass of entertainment will reside and as I said if you build a better mousetrap, someone will build a better mouse. Maybe you will next advocate plucking everyone's eyeballs. That could solve it
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 0:34:07 GMT -5
No, not home movies. Home movies aren't copyrighted feature films. This type of technology can identify films owned by Sony, identify that they've been bootlegged, and then refuse to play them.
This isn't limited to burned discs either. It can tell when it's on a flash drive. And this isn't just DVD rips it can spot. You go into a theater with a camcorder, record the movie, and try to play it? It won't work. It knows. It really is a VERY impressive piece of copyright protection. Right now it's only used on Sony property that I know of, and only on the PS3 and Blu Ray players, but I can foresee this type of technology being hardwired into the very operating systems of electronic media playing devices in the future. But as of right now, it is literally impossible to get certain movies to play on the Playstation without actually paying for it. Download it online, won't work. Rip a DVD, won't work. Record it with a camcorder, won't work.
I believe that this type of technology is what Sony and Microsoft are both waiting on implementing before they allow USB playback on their game systems. I expect it to be a little more far reaching the next time around, with more studios licensing the technology. That's what's holding it up right now, Sony probably charging an arm and a leg for the technology license. And since they control a large portion of hardware manufacture, a company developing it's own technology won't work as well. Sony is in a position right now to make some money off this. Especially if they, along with Hollywood, can lobby some legislation that will require this on more than just Blu Rays (they've already successfully lobbied to have it added to all blu ray players from all manufacturers).
Right now, you don't need to build a better mouse, because there's multiple devices out there that don't have this technology yet. When this is built into Windows, OSX, Android, and Linux, will someone really build a working operating system, illegally, to operate on some sort of machine they'd obviously have to build, and distribute through some black market channel like a fake Rolex so people can play free movies? I don't think so.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 0:38:16 GMT -5
Oh wait, I don't think Sony owns the technology, they're just early adopters. Maybe they won't be making money off it. But either way, I see Hollywood pursuing this further.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 30, 2014 10:25:57 GMT -5
the history of drm at least in music has been one of total failure. drm technology existed for at least 10 years but is basically non existent now and a lot of consumers were burnt by sony's previous attempt at drm so i doubt they'll be rushing in droves for any new system they have in their media or players en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandali agree it's possible to pinpoint who is downloading - and has been done in the past - but the sheer amount of man hours and cost needed to enforce it is basically impossible and with ip masking actually very difficult to detect. In the Uk the government closed down access to torrent sites but let youtube off scot free so the whole thing was basically pointless for music at least. That has less to do with drm and more to do with the illegal way it was implemented, which if what dupont is saying is accurate is not an issue with the new method.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 30, 2014 10:34:40 GMT -5
I think good piracy protection is impossible... any time a new protection comes out, someone starts trying to crack it. With the internet, as soon as one person cracks it, it's useless.
Remember WAY back when video games made you look in the manual for a key word? That worked great until the internet.. people just started scanning the manuals, then, eventually, just cracking the program. Then for a while it was the CD had to be there.... then games got too big for that to work. I don't know what's out there now (I'm not a big gamer anymore) but I know my little brother has no problem finding torrents of stuff he wants, and any time I've wanted an older game I've found it for free.
It's just not cost effective to keep coming up with new ways to stop the pirates... better to make it so people don't want to pirate (good prices and quality products), IMO.
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ironchimp
Full Member
Simian Overlord
Posts: 456
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Post by ironchimp on Jul 30, 2014 12:42:08 GMT -5
the history of drm at least in music has been one of total failure. drm technology existed for at least 10 years but is basically non existent now and a lot of consumers were burnt by sony's previous attempt at drm so i doubt they'll be rushing in droves for any new system they have in their media or players en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandali agree it's possible to pinpoint who is downloading - and has been done in the past - but the sheer amount of man hours and cost needed to enforce it is basically impossible and with ip masking actually very difficult to detect. In the Uk the government closed down access to torrent sites but let youtube off scot free so the whole thing was basically pointless for music at least. That has less to do with drm and more to do with the illegal way it was implemented, which if what dupont is saying is accurate is not an issue with the new method. in music, drm did exist for around 5 -10 years but was removed at insistence of mp3 providers and consumers. If the history of music is anything to judge by drm does not last. sony's own previous drm was such a mess and also illegally gathered information on users that many previous sony users will be once bitten twice shy no matter what their new system is for pcs at least. if you look at the cinavia description on Wiki (i know i know..) If a "theatrical release" watermark is detected in a consumer Blu-ray Disc audio track, the accompanying video is deemed to have been sourced from a "cam" recording. If the "AACS watermark" is present in the audio tracks, but no accompanying and matching AACS key is found on the disc, then it is deemed to have been a "rip" made by copying to a second blank Blu-ray Disc. it basically protects against rips from discs burnt from legitimate copies. Now I dont know for certain and am too lazy to check but i'd suspect the biggest bulk of illegal copies are downloaded as mpegs and played as mpegs rather than burnt onto discs. So Pc users will largely be unaffected.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 15:19:45 GMT -5
I think good piracy protection is impossible... any time a new protection comes out, someone starts trying to crack it. With the internet, as soon as one person cracks it, it's useless. Remember WAY back when video games made you look in the manual for a key word? That worked great until the internet.. people just started scanning the manuals, then, eventually, just cracking the program. Then for a while it was the CD had to be there.... then games got too big for that to work. I don't know what's out there now (I'm not a big gamer anymore) but I know my little brother has no problem finding torrents of stuff he wants, and any time I've wanted an older game I've found it for free. It's just not cost effective to keep coming up with new ways to stop the pirates... better to make it so people don't want to pirate (good prices and quality products), IMO. It's possible, but this new type of copy protection is worlds more advanced than that. I don't think it's crackable. It's just not widely implemented yet.
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