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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 20:43:18 GMT -5
If their digital comics are selling a tenth of what print does (I think a conservative figure, but Comixology will not release figures) and Marvel has 130 titles (I'm guessing) with an average price tag of $3.50 and selling roughly 40,000 units per title, and they uploaded the content to the app store themselves, their digital take would increase by $588,000 a month. How many salaries could that pay? How many people would it take to upload 130 files to the app store every month? I'm guessing two or three, max, at $60k a year.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 1, 2014 20:48:11 GMT -5
But the bottom line is, even if they make up for the cost of printing by having other customers, if they didn't have the cost of printing, they'd still have those same customers paying the same prices. So it costs them money to print the comics. And I'm still not convinced that every single comic publisher owns a printing facility and freelances in addition to printing comics. I'll buy Marvel and DC do, even though I've never heard of such a thing, but I'm nearly positive that several publishers do not. If they have to pay for printing and yet their price point is the same as that of Marvel, it leads me to believe Marvel is passing the cost of printing on to us as well. Otherwise, why can't they undercut the indies like they used to? It costs money to "print" digital comics too though, and unlike the machinery which can be used to create other revenue those ten guys in charge of the digital printing can only do just that so there are no differed costs there which is why the cost should be basically the same as you subtract one cost but add another. And not every comic publisher owns there own press, mostly just the very large ones such as Marvel, DC, Dark Horse and I believe Image. And the reason they don't undercut independent books nearly as much as they used to is because the prices of indie books have generally come down in the last decade as producing digital books on a smaller scale is far more affordable than printing on the same scale so it's reached a sort of equilibrium between big publishers and tiny ones in that respect. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 1, 2014 20:52:14 GMT -5
Not according to several industry insiders, the publishers are responsible for formatting the files they send to the digital distributors as well as proof reading those files to make sure they look right for the different formats and so forth. All the distributors do are host the various files and monitor the software that oversees the transactions and the execution of the program files associated with each title. And I imagine they pay others up to 30% to do just that because it's a fairly complicated venture that costs time and money that they feel is better used elsewhere. Why even pay Comixology then? If they own printing facilities and print highway banners to offset the cost of comics (I'm still not buying that) why not cut out the middle man and upload their own comics to the app store? For an extra thirty five percent (larger than their entire cut, by the way). They could go from 22% to 57% by uploading the comic to iTunes themselves. I would think the answer to this bit would be self explanatory, namely because its something they are not currently equipped to do and the costs of doing it may be greater than what they are paying sites like comixology. I mean it's the same with print, why pay diamond or individual retailers? Why not just ship your own books and open up your own store fronts? Because they are not equipped to do so and the associated costs would be larger than the chunk diamond and the retailers currently take. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 21:18:07 GMT -5
Have you ever heard of something going digital only because of costs?
A fanzine becoming a blog or forum?
A comic going 100% digital?
A newspaper? Magazine? An unsigned musician and their album releases?
I have. I've never heard the opposite though, that going 100% print saves anyone money.
Also, Marvel and DC are experiencing zero growth in print, and what, 40% growth in digital? And they get a bigger cut in digital? And if they could find a way to send that file they developed to the app store they could more than double their income from digital overnight? You can guess where I'd start focusing if I were in charge.
Shipping their own comics and opening up store fronts would require countless payroll employees, equipment, and properties. The direct market has been steadily (although slowly) shrinking (or remaining stagnant) for quite a while now. Uploading the file they spent so much time and effort developing to the Apple store requires one of their employees already on payroll hitting "send." If they went 100% digital, it could probably result in laying off hundreds, getting rid of multiple properties, and liquidating hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment (if they print their own merchandise).
I follow a kid on Facebook who became a millionaire in his late teens developing iPhone apps. The easiest part of the job is uploading it to the app store. He doesn't have a warehouse or a crew of employees. In fact, he said it could be done with a $400 used laptop.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 1, 2014 21:54:19 GMT -5
I think there's a big different between a professional product and a fanzine. Moving something from a free blog to a printed newsletter is obviously a different, if you're not printing anything, you're not spending money.
It's not exactly free, though, since either they're paying to host the side, or they have ads.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 22:33:27 GMT -5
It's not free, but obviously cheaper, or else professional products wouldn't be doing it as well. The Comics Journal is one that comes to mind. Quick Google search, Newsweek went digital only because it was cheaper.
And blogs can cost money if you have your own website and URL and aren't just blogging on Blogspot. Thecomicsreporter.com likely costs him money. CBR costs money to host. Of course the cost is offset with adspace, which is exactly what The Comics Journal is doing, as well as any newspaper that went to digital only, and what's stopping a comic company from doing the same? If they litter the interiors of their comics with ads, why not their site?
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ironchimp
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Simian Overlord
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Post by ironchimp on Aug 2, 2014 4:07:17 GMT -5
i'd actually be very surprised if marvel and dc owned their own presses given that their various formats seem to be printed around the world. Even if they did of course they'd charge themselves printing costs for accounting / tax purposes. It's a basic shell game, they charge themselves x but charge others a slightly higher cost of y which covers what it cost to print their own work. And I believe the formats printed worldwide are basically licensed printers which would account for the variances. They aren't licensed printers. Marvel USA uses Chinese printers for certain books, I think DC uses Canadian printers for certain books depending on the format and these are imported back into USA for sale. They don't own those plants, they just book time on them like everyone else Even if you were right and they do own their own presses, since you dont know the volume of marvel product going through the press vs other companies, you cannot assume the volume of other companies work is enough to offset their own costs. For all you know these marvel presses if they exist - they might be churning out 20% or 80% of their capacity on Marvel books - 20% other companies work isnt going to pay for the whole plant. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Aug 2, 2014 5:39:57 GMT -5
I started off with a hard stance that I wouldn't pay more than $1.99 for a DRM digital comic. I stick to this for the most part, but I make exceptions for series I want to succeed that don't have a huge built in fanbase (Silver Surfer) or creator owned series. I tend to wait for Marvel and DC series to drop to $1.99, but DRM-Free comics, even from Marvel and DC when they come around, I'd have no problem paying full price for.
The more I use CBZ files, the more the distinction between the ownership of a file, and the ownership of an actual physical product, blurs for me. I'll always be a collected editions fan (just got the first two Pogo's and another Prince Valiant, and still buy Marvel Masterworks and omnibus')but single issues just aren't worth the hassle for me anymore in terms of storage, price point, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2014 7:13:30 GMT -5
I started off with a hard stance that I wouldn't pay more than $1.99 for a DRM digital comic. I stick to this for the most part, but I make exceptions for series I want to succeed that don't have a huge built in fanbase (Silver Surfer) or creator owned series. I tend to wait for Marvel and DC series to drop to $1.99, but DRM-Free comics, even from Marvel and DC when they come around, I'd have no problem paying full price for. The more I use CBZ files, the more the distinction between the ownership of a file, and the ownership of an actual physical product, blurs for me. I'll always be a collected editions fan (just got the first two Pogo's and another Prince Valiant, and still buy Marvel Masterworks and omnibus')but single issues just aren't worth the hassle for me anymore in terms of storage, price point, etc. I wouldn't pay anything for DRM comics. I want to OWN my comics and not be subjected to a DRM restriction. Image has tried to strike a correct balance with DRM-Free material and copyright, as follows:-
Image Comics Digital Comic User Agreement tries to strike a balance between allowing you to enjoy digital comics without annoying DRM restrictions, while also protecting the rights of the creators whose hard work brings you the comics you love. Under the Agreement:
• You have a personal sublicense to display the copyrighted works in the digital media file that you purchase.
• You may make a copy of your digital comic for your own use onto any device.
• You may print a copy of your digital comic for your own offline enjoyment.
• You may share your digital comic by sharing a device on which you have loaded the comic. For example, by lending someone your Kindle. Image encourages you to share the goodness with your friends and family, or at least the ones you trust with your e-reader.
• You may not make copies of your digital comic—either the media file or print copies—to share with anyone else. For example, uploading the digital comic to a file-sharing site, emailing the file to others, or printing copies for friends (or strangers).
In short, Image Comics thinks you should have a DRM-free reading experience on whatever device you choose whenever you want. Image thinks you should show family and friends what you’re reading; maybe they’ll like it. But uploading your digital media file to file-sharing sites or making copies for others is copyright infringement and remains prohibited under the Agreement and can subject you to liability.
Comics subjected to DRM encourage pirates to do their thing, and their finished product is usually a quality one too. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Aug 2, 2014 10:45:14 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly about Image's stance. I'm not crazy about DRM, and if Marvel and DC keep dragging their feet and don't take up Image's stance soon, I'm going to stop buying any of their products on Comixology. Currently I have a subscription to Marvel Unlimited. I can justify paying $10 a month for this given all the classic content and that the newer series are only six months behind.
What I'd like for Marvel and DC to do, at the very least, is provide original scans of classic comics with the original newsprint, ads, letter columns, etc, for DRM-Free downloads. If I were Marvel and DC, I'd simply find all the torrents of classic series, download them, copy the hell out of them as needed, and offer them for 99 cents a pop on their website. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be all over this.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 2, 2014 16:02:04 GMT -5
Have you ever heard of something going digital only because of costs? A fanzine becoming a blog or forum? A comic going 100% digital? A newspaper? Magazine? An unsigned musician and their album releases? I have. I've never heard the opposite though, that going 100% print saves anyone money. Also, Marvel and DC are experiencing zero growth in print, and what, 40% growth in digital? And they get a bigger cut in digital? And if they could find a way to send that file they developed to the app store they could more than double their income from digital overnight? You can guess where I'd start focusing if I were in charge. Shipping their own comics and opening up store fronts would require countless payroll employees, equipment, and properties. The direct market has been steadily (although slowly) shrinking (or remaining stagnant) for quite a while now. Uploading the file they spent so much time and effort developing to the Apple store requires one of their employees already on payroll hitting "send." If they went 100% digital, it could probably result in laying off hundreds, getting rid of multiple properties, and liquidating hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment (if they print their own merchandise). I follow a kid on Facebook who became a millionaire in his late teens developing iPhone apps. The easiest part of the job is uploading it to the app store. He doesn't have a warehouse or a crew of employees. In fact, he said it could be done with a $400 used laptop. It's not that it saves money or that it's cheaper, it's that the associated costs are roughly the same as it's no where near as easy as just hitting send because if it were don't you think they'd be doing just that. The people running these companies aren't stupid, if it were as easy as you say they'd be doing it already so one must assume that because they are not doing so then the cost/benefit relationship isn't high enough to warrant them cutting out comixology. |
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ironchimp
Full Member
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Posts: 456
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Post by ironchimp on Aug 2, 2014 17:18:03 GMT -5
The point is it is that easy - they can administer marvel unlimited no problem in house on a tiny sub a month.
they arent bypassing comixology for the same reason the music industry didnt bypass itunes and the companies that came before it. too slow, head in the sand, and archaic coporate practises that meant they couldnt unite to form their own cross company digital distro.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2014 17:19:03 GMT -5
They've stomped their feet at digital ever since it's inception. The costs are not the same in any other industry of print, why would they be here? The article I posted explicitly stated that everyone is taking a larger cut in digital, that it is more profitable. The reason they do so is to make it cost the same as print artifically, to protect print. Not because it costs the same. Comixology is taking a 70% cut on cover price with comics bought outside the app. Seventy percent. Not because it costs that much. If it costed that much then they'd be taking the same cut for in app sales. If it costed that much then other digital distributors wouldn't be undercutting them by up to sixty percent.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 2, 2014 18:38:00 GMT -5
I suppose there is a precedence for ignorance from large companies in terms of digital media so perhaps you may be right there. Part of me still thinks they ought to know how to run their business well, but you may be correct as I'm sure people said the same with the rise of Itunes and such.
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Post by impulse on Aug 2, 2014 18:39:44 GMT -5
I think what folks are trying to say is that, for Marvel, it does cost that much because that is what the folks who host/distribute it (i.e. Comixology) are charging Marvel to do it. It may potentially be cheaper for Marvel to do it in-house in the long run, but maybe they just don't want to. They are a comic book maker and selling, not a digital e-tail store. That's an entirely different skill set than what they do. They could do all that themselves and take on the extra labor, regulations, skills and costs, or they could just collect their 30% and let someone else deal with it. If someone hacks Comixology and steals a bunch of credit card info? Not Marvel's problem. For whatever reason, that seems to be their preference at the moment.
Now, as a consumer, though, that is all completely irrelevant to me. I don't care about the inner workings of either their physical or digital supply chains. In my eyes, a digital-only comic is simply not of equal value to a physical copy. It's just not, and I don't want to pay the same price for both. How to charge less? I don't care, figure it out. Push back on Comixology. Team up with someone else. Do. Not. Care. If you want my money, charge less or add more value. I would maybe see it differently if the files were extremely high quality, high-res, no DRM of any sort, etc, with a Steam-like level of convenience, but as it currently stands? Not worth it.
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